Anquan Boldin: Former Raven
by YeahDonnie on Feb 12, 2012 8:42 PM EST
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How's that headline for an attention grabber?
Anquan Boldin should be traded this offseason to the highest bidder, which will probably get us a 3rd rounder, 2nd if we're lucky, and I will tell you why.
Don't get me wrong, I love Anquan Boldin. He is a great WR, and I can give him no higher compliment than "he plays like a Raven". But he still needs to go.
I have been one of the biggest Cam Cameron haters on this blog, and I still stick by that. Anquan Boldin does not fit Cameron's system, and he will never be properly utilized while Cameron is still here. Yes, I know he was on pace for 1,000+ yards this season before the injuury despite that, but if we shed his salary, we can easily sign the perfect receiver to fit Cam Cameron's style. His name is Vincent Jackson.
At only 29 years old, Jackson is further from decline than Boldin, especially considering the hits and wear and tear Q has taken during his illustrious career. He would automatically become our best red zone threat ever, and he has the height and skills to excel in Cameron's system. With Torrey on the other side, we would have potentially the best 1-2 punch in the league, and Flacco becomes a much better QB. We all know how much the lack of separation by WRs hurt the passing game at times this year, and Jackson is "human separation" at 6'5" 230 pounds.
The slot role, which Boldin should be used in, is occupied by TEs in Cameron's system, and we could see a lot of Pitta and Dickson in the slot with the 2 stud WRs on the outside. Lee Evans could be brought back for a lower price as a backup and insurance policy in case of injury, and we could continue to develop Doss as well. This would free us from needing to spend a high draft pick on a WR, which many people have projected, and instead get some much needed help on O line or at LB.
I know a lot of people are going to call me crazy for suggesting we get rid of Boldin, but I think this puts our offense immediately into the top 10, and makes all the Cameron haters shut their mouth a bit, because his system will suddenly be much more functional than it currently is.
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
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Boldin isn't going anywhere
And it would be a terrible move to trade him. He was originally traded for 3rd and 4th round picks while including a 5th in his deal.
So two year later, why would a team give up a 3rd, or even better, a 2nd for him? Not going to happen.
Vincent Jackson is a very good WR, but there is far too much hype for a guy whose highest career season catch total is 68. Boldin has basically put that up each of the last two seasons while having off years.
Would I welcome Jackson here? Damn right I would, but for the cost of losing Boldin? Hell no.
"Picture Me Rollin"
After VJax signs somewhere next month
Q will prove to be a great , much cheaper option.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Feb 12, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
I see him going to Carolina.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
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by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
That would be insane
I don’t like Newton at all, he just comes across as an arrogant asshole, but he would be unstoppable with Jackson added to what he has now.
Oh he is. I see him in post-game conferences all the time. And what pisses me off is how when his team is losing he mopes on the side-line with a towel draped over his head.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
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by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
he hates losing
should he act differently? yes but his heart is in the right place competitively
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 12, 2012 11:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Newton has a competitive heart, but good lord he is a cry-baby when they lose.
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by Zachary Beard on Feb 13, 2012 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
No it’s the fact that he doesn’t even associate with his teammates when they are losing. He doesn’t try to rally them to make a come-back, he just sits around moping and accepting it. He gives up too easily.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
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by Zachary Beard on Feb 13, 2012 6:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, I don’t really get all this hate for Newton. Why do people think he is so arrogant, because he knows he is freaking good at football?
He is a winner, he is professional, and isn’t one of these thugs we have seen get overwhelmed by the stardom.
I am a huge Cam Newton fan, he is everything you could want in a Quarterback in my opinion.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Agreed and honestly feel he has every right to be is confident as he is. He was basically labeled a bust before he even stepped on the field. He was constantly being told what he couldn’t do all through the draft process and was hated on by a ton of analysts.It was almost as if people were rooting for him to fail and I can’t recall many draft prospects under more scrutiny than Newton was. I was extremely happy for him to start shutting people up.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
What thugs are you referring to?
by Raven_all_day on Feb 13, 2012 3:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Adam Jones, Vince Young, Rolando McClain, Cedric Benson, Aquib Taleb, Laurence Maroney….just to name a few. All first round picks, all made a bad name for themselves.
"Picture Me Rollin"
But how did they get the title, thugs?
by Raven_all_day on Feb 13, 2012 5:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah I probably was too high on him to suggest a possible 2nd, but I think a 3 is likely
and like I said, I like Boldin and don’t really want to see him go, but I also get sick of seeing him sent on routes that he isn’t great at executing. We never run slants, drags, or anything over the middle, which is what he’s best at. He’s been here long enough for Cameron to know his strengths, but Cam will NEVER adjust his scheme for anyone.
Call me crazy, but I’d gladly take a 3rd rounder, which we could package and move up in the 1st or 2nd, and a proven WR who actually fits the system we run. If Cameron weren’t re-signed this offseason, this thought would have never crossed my mind, because maybe for once Boldin would be used properly, but since Cam is back, I say give him what he needs.
I think we automatically assume Jackson would fit the system just because he plays for San Diego. But I think the system Cameron is trying to build is based off of speed. Jackson isn’t exactly going to outrun anyone.
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by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
Not speed, but separation
Jacskon is a deep threat, not because he can outrun a CB, but because he can out-jump and out-muscle them.
And Boldin can’t?
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Out-muscle, sure
out-jump, no. Jackson is 10 times the downfield threat Boldin is, and that’s the way our system runs. I love Boldin, but if we’re all in with Cameron, we should get the guys who will excel the most in his system.
but if we’re all in with Cameron, we should get the guys who will excel the most in his system.
How do you know Ozzie isn’t going to do that? He saw the struggles this season, so why would he not make a move towards improving it? That’s the Ozzie way man.
"Picture Me Rollin"
because it hasn’t happened for the past 3 years. I love Ozzie, but he brought in Housh and traded Clayton which was a horrible move.
Our yards and scoring improved from 2010 to 2011. So what hasn’t happened and what makes you think it won’t improve again?
Some people think that because we are not putting up 37 every game and 500 yards of offense that it means it is a complete failure.
"Picture Me Rollin"
I'm not one of those people expecting 37 points per game
but even you, the most optimistic Ravens fan of all time, have to know the offense is underachieving.
We never run slants, drags, or anything over the middle
actually the ravens have run slant drags and routes that require wideouts/tighends to run the middle of the field. Its not about the ravens offense not using them its more like they don’t use it consistently and for that reason is unknown to me but things could change.
I can remember 1 drag this year…that’s pathetic. Slants can probably be counted on 2 hands. Cameron just does not believe in using a WR over the middle, only TEs and dumpoffs to Rice.
Its not about the ravens offense not using them its more like they don’t use it consistently and for that reason is unknown to me but things could change.
Cameron has been here for 4 years and it hasn’t changed, so the chances it happens now are extremely low.
I actually saw him lined up in the slot multiple times this season.
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A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
He plays much more naturally in the slot. Which is why he was so effective in Arizona with Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Breaston
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A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
I say we just work him in underneath routes, and let Smith work outside and deep.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
We should, absolutely
but should and will are 2 different things, Cameron has never run a WR consistently over the middle since he’s been here
I think we will see more middle routes with Pitta next year. I definitely see Pitta having more of an increased role next year.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
which is why we need another outside receiver. We rarely run 3 WR sets, so even if we have Evans or someone else to be an outside guy, they’ll only come in on substitutions, not to put Boldin in the slot like he should be.
I have no problem with that but most of boldin best plays last year were when he was working the outside.
I think Boldin should still work the outside but at same time used a lot more in the slot
I understand where you're coming from
But there’s not a chance Boldin leaves Baltimore, nor do I want him to. Boldin>Jackson.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
I agree
Boldin is better, but not the way Cameron is going to use him. Also, Boldin is going to hit the wall soon at 31 years old with the beating he’s taken over the years. You know Ozzie likes to get rid of people too soon rather than too late.
I have to disagree. I think Boldin is adjusting to this system. He’s gradually been making progress and I see him being good for another 4-5 years.
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
A.K.A "Baltimore Warrior"
by Zachary Beard on Feb 12, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Boldin does still have some down field threat capability. Can’t forget that he was hampered allllll year by that injury and didn’t get surgery done until right before the playoffs. I agree we don’t use him to his strengths, but Jackson is a verrrrry long shot to come here. I think we could get a similar guy for a lot cheaper in FA plus, who knows who might fall in the draft. I think we’ll see at least one new face at WR via the draft or FA, but Q will still be here.
"Don't throw it, don't throw it, don't throw it. I know y'all going to throw it, they going to throw it anyway. I wouldn't throw it. Don't do it." - Ed Reed
"53 Mighty Men of Baltimore"
by WestminsterRaven on Feb 12, 2012 9:24 PM EST reply actions
Boldin does still have some down field threat capability.
“Some” downfield threat capability doesn’t fit this offense
I agree we don’t use him to his strengths, but Jackson is a verrrrry long shot to come here. I think we could get a similar guy for a lot cheaper in FA
What is Boldin making this upcoming year, somewhere in the 6-8 million range? We could cut or restructure Evans and sign Jackson and be evened out if Boldin is traded.
plus, who knows who might fall in the draft.
Look, I love Ozzie, but I’d rather take a known commodity than see if he can find a WR in the draft, arguably his biggest weakness over the years, plus this move would give us the capability to focus on O line high in the draft, the other thing we need to improve to make Cam’s system work
Q will still be here.
I agree, but just throwing out what I think would maximize our offense
"Some" downfield threat capability doesn’t fit this offense
It doesn’t need to when we already have one of the best downfield threats in the league.
"Picture Me Rollin"
But you know Cameron runs both WRs like that, and only TEs are used for possession/over the middle routes
which is why I HATED last year’s group of Boldin, Mason, and Housh. 3 possession WRs who did not fit our system at all. At least Mason was used primarily on his comeback route or out route.
I’ve rewatched every game this year from NFL Rewind, and honestly never saw how people came up with this idea that we were only running 9 routes a majority of the time.
"Picture Me Rollin"
I know, even torreys stats
have a ton of targets and catches 0-9 yards out. ravens fans remember us losing drives off failed 9 routes and non-ravens fans just hear torrey smith and repeat what analysts say about how he obviously can do nothing but run straight up the sideline
by dimik on Feb 15, 2012 10:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
people need to watch moneyball
in the nfls strict salary cap the philosophy def obtains. money buys production, and with football’s interconnected positions its harder to get right but the upside is even higher.
you want undervalued guys who produce, and diva free agent wrs are the antithesis of this ethos, they eat way too much cap space relative to their production.
if u check out my fanpost on q stats last season, I do think q production is replaceable at a lower cost, but at the same time he could have way more upside in a diff system, and trading for guys and then trading them for a lower pick a few years later even when they are likely to maintain consistent production for a few more years is a bad way to run a winn
by dimik on Feb 15, 2012 11:48 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree, but just throwing out what I think would maximize our offense
But why are you SO certain that if for some terrible reason we did trade Boldin, Jackson would automatically come here? Even without Boldin’s contract on the books, we would still have trouble giving Jackson what he wanted. I also think that it would mean we bring Grubbs back before signing Jackson. It would imply giving Flacco, Rice, Grubbs and Jackson all top money.
All in all, losing Boldin in any way does not maximize our offense, because it would be no guarantee that Jackson would come here.
Not going to happen and no Ravens fan should hope/think it would happen.
"Picture Me Rollin"
But why are you SO certain that if for some terrible reason we did trade Boldin, Jackson would automatically come here?
We’d have to sign Jackson first, of course. We’d lose some leverage in trading Boldin, but should still get a 3rd rounder.
Even without Boldin’s contract on the books, we would still have trouble giving Jackson what he wanted.
Not necessarily, aside from Fitz’s crazy deal, the 2 highest paid WRs last year were Calvin Johnson at 12 mil and Brandon Marshall at 10. I think we could get Jackson at 8ish per year and be pretty even with Boldin traded and Evans cut/restructured.
I also think that it would mean we bring Grubbs back before signing Jackson
If we’re evened out at WR, this move shouldn’t impact Grubbs, but I’m starting to think losing Grubbs is inevitable.
Like I said in my FA WR post earlier, we need to stop this “rent-a-receiver” trend and start building this position through the draft. I know Ozzie’s track record at finding WRs is iffy, but Torrey was a start and the impending draft class is loooooooaded with WR talent. I’d rather have a new, possibly rookie, WR that can grow along with Joe for the rest of his career.
O line is an issue, better pass blocking is a must in this system, but I think we’ll be alright moving forward. We have a good track record finding good stop gaps for some of the veteran guys that fade off or step away from the game altogether.
I’m all with you on Cam, I’ve been one of his biggest detractors on this site, but moving moving Boldin, Joe’s main WR, going into next year when we came so close could be so detrimental. Joe’s had enough turnover. We have to build for the future and get younger.
"Don't throw it, don't throw it, don't throw it. I know y'all going to throw it, they going to throw it anyway. I wouldn't throw it. Don't do it." - Ed Reed
"53 Mighty Men of Baltimore"
by WestminsterRaven on Feb 12, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said in my FA WR post earlier, we need to stop this "rent-a-receiver" trend and start building this position through the draft. I know Ozzie’s track record at finding WRs is iffy, but Torrey was a start and the impending draft class is loooooooaded with WR talent. I’d rather have a new, possibly rookie, WR that can grow along with Joe for the rest of his career.
You’re absolutely right, but if we have Torrey to grow with Joe for a long time, and possibly Doss, swapping Boldin for the younger Jackson isn’t affecting this.
but moving moving Boldin, Joe’s main WR,
Let’s be honest, Torrey and Pitta became Joe’s go to guys as the season wore on. Granted, Boldin was dealing with the injury, but in his time here, he hasn’t developed the chemistry with Joe we all thought he would. I think the main reason is the system. Boldin has still been pretty productive for us, but I think Jackson is an upgrade as long as Cameron is here.
Also, if
the impending draft class is loooooooaded with WR talentthen we should be able to get someone in the 3rd round, considering we’ll have 2 picks there if my proposal happened.
If we have Jackson, Torrey, Evans, Doss and Williams, than why would we need to bring in another WR. You stated…
but I think this puts our offense immediately into the top 10
So why would we need to use a 2nd or 3rd if Jackson makes us the next greatest show on turf?
"Picture Me Rollin"
Not saying we need to
but just saying for the sake of argument, if we were to go after a WR in the draft, we should be able to get someone in the 3rd round of a loaded WR class
Jackson is an upgrade for most teams. As much as I’d love for him to be a Raven, I think they’re are more effective ways to spending the cash this off-season. Truth is, we have no idea if Grubbs will leave for more money, and if he does we have to go get someone. I just think there may be more pressing needs than taking a run at arguably the best WR in this years FA. And I’m not getting my hopes up cause the Ravens aren’t known for making huge moves. If the Rabens badly want a top flight WR, I think they’ll snag one in the draft if possible before going on a spending spree.
Would Jackson help? Of course. But this team still made it to the AFCG with what they have now and I don’t think spending a ton of money on one guy will really put us over the top. Maybe I’m wrong. Who knows.
Def a good topic of discussion though to keep us all thinking. I nearly had a fucking heart attack when I read the head line. I was waiting for my phone to go off with an update that the Ravens had released Q. Haha.
"Don't throw it, don't throw it, don't throw it. I know y'all going to throw it, they going to throw it anyway. I wouldn't throw it. Don't do it." - Ed Reed
"53 Mighty Men of Baltimore"
by WestminsterRaven on Feb 12, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
You keep bringing up the money
but in my scenario, we could pretty much break even, so that shouldn’t hurt us.
Def a good topic of discussion though to keep us all thinking. I nearly had a fucking heart attack when I read the head line. I was waiting for my phone to go off with an update that the Ravens had released Q. Haha.
Haha, hey…not much else to talk about in the off season before the draft.
I hope I’m not coming across wrong in this…I love Boldin and want him to be a Raven. I’m just trying to reconcile my hate for Cameron and what our offense can and will be with him still running it. This, to me, just seems like a perfect fit.
Yea, I know what you’re saying about the money and cap stuff. We’ll just have to see what the team does when the time comes. I know they’ll do whatever they feel best and Ozzie will probably make his usual one or two fantastic moves he always pulls off either in the draft of FA.
As far as Cam, I don’t know what to say really. Just have to hope for the best. Torrey being here helps a lot with this scheme, and like others have said, I think Pitta could have a monstrous year going over the middle and up the seams making those tough catches. Full off season will help everyone. We’ve got enough talent to cover up some blemishes and Ray Rice def. helps.
All I know for sure is that I’m already jonesing for some football.
"Don't throw it, don't throw it, don't throw it. I know y'all going to throw it, they going to throw it anyway. I wouldn't throw it. Don't do it." - Ed Reed
"53 Mighty Men of Baltimore"
by WestminsterRaven on Feb 12, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Can't wait for the season
usually the excitement of a new baseball season holds me over, but I’ve completely lost hope for the O’s. All I can think about is the Ravens right now.
Yup, miss the old days where the O’s were competitive. Oh how I wish those days were back. Maybe one day if someone else is running the show.
"Don't throw it, don't throw it, don't throw it. I know y'all going to throw it, they going to throw it anyway. I wouldn't throw it. Don't do it." - Ed Reed
"53 Mighty Men of Baltimore"
by WestminsterRaven on Feb 12, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
15 years ago
The economics of the league don’t work… MLB can take some.pointers from NFL but getting steinbren to cough up YES money to the royale will not happen
by Evan Skev on Feb 13, 2012 2:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he hasn’t developed the chemistry with Joe we all thought he would.
I agree the chemistry isnt there like it should be but i the lockout definately didnt help them to improve there chemistry with each other through off season well they did work out together but to my knowledge it wasnt often.
Chemistry doesn’t develop right away and sometimes it takes more than two years for it to develop to the level it should be. I think Boldin and Flacco chemistry improve from where it it was when Boldin first became a raven
Not sold on this idea but you’re correct…something has to change in order for this team to realize
by Evan Skev on Feb 12, 2012 9:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Ideally I'd like to keep Boldin and lose Cam, but that isn't going to happen
so might as well make the best of what we have.
i know this is off topic but all i want for the ravens offense is big tall wideout from the draft and hue jackson as the wideout coach.
Im still surprised how Hue Jackson is still out there he really improved the raider offense alot when he first got there
if he’s still out there, theres a reason. and hes a QB coach
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 12, 2012 11:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
exactly
rumors are he isn’t the easiest guy to get along with, I’m sure the Ravens would have brought him back in a second as QB coach if they wanted to. There’s a reason they went with Caldwell, who is unknown to them, instead.
exactly
rumors are he isn’t the easiest guy to get along with
If Todd Haley can get a job then Hue Jackson can get a job lol.
There’s a reason they went with Caldwell, who is unknown to them, instead.
Well thats probably because Caldwell is way better than Jackson as a quarterback coach also Caldwell has more experience than Jackson as a quarterback coach in the nfl. Hue Jackson first year as a quarterback coach in the nfl was when he was ravens( only two years experience as nfl quarterback coach)
and hes a QB coach
Not really it was Hue Jackson that help Chad Ocho Cinco and T.J Houmanzadeh to become one of the best wideout duo in the league.
Under Jackson’s tutelage in Cincinnati, Chad Ochocinco and T. J. Houshmandzadeh became one of the most prolific wide-receiving tandems in the NFL. In 2005, the Ochocinco-Houshmandzadeh tandem combined to total 175 receptions for 2,388 yards, while helping the team secure the AFC North title and a playoff berth for the first time in 15 years. In 2006, Ochocinco (1,369 yards) and Houshmandzadeh (1,081 yards) became the first pair of Bengals to eclipse the 1,000-yard receiving mark in a single season. In each of Jackson’s 3 years in Cincinnati, Ochocinco was named to the Pro Bowl.
Hue Jackson has been a running back coach, wide receiver coach, and offensive coodinator in nfl. link
if he’s still out there, theres a reason.
he may want to just take a break from coaching and just receive the money that the raiders will have to pay him
Jazz
you need a class in reading the writing on the wall dude. you think theres no good reason why the Ravens wouldnt pursue TO, Mason, or Hue Jackson
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 13, 2012 8:14 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
you think theres no good reason why the Ravens wouldnt pursue TO, Mason, or Hue Jackson
ummm I honestly dont know where you get such ideas from but I think i explain enough and i dont think i feel like explaining again.
lol
yeah no idea where I got those ideas from… Not like you’ve ever voiced any of those opinions before.
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 13, 2012 10:00 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I never said the ravens should pursue t.o where is this statement by me that I did.
yes I have said the ravens should had sign Mason but in the end I knew they wanted to stay younger on offense also wanted to go in a different direction.
You say the ravens have a reason for not going after hue jackson but the last time i check signing coaches is not over and if you think his final press conference indicates why he hasn’t receive interest from ravens then i think thats inaccurate to think so.
but the last time i check signing coaches is not over
It is certainly not over, but the spots filled up very, very fast for most teams in the last few weeks. Look across the league and see how many new HC and position coaches were hired. Hue wasn’t….
And I haven’t seen anything to indicate that the Ravens are dissatisfied with Jim Hostler, the current WR coach.
"Picture Me Rollin"
If you take a look at these stats, you’ll see Boldin was targeted 9 more times last year, and had 887 yards to Jackson’s 1,106. Boldin had a catch rate of 53.8 to Jackson’s 52.2, so the difference is negligible in the possession part of it, and that’s despite Boldin’s “deep” targets being only 25.5% to Jackson’s 43.3%. Jackson also tripled up Boldin’s TDs 9 to 3.
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=81-A.Boldin&pos=WR&season=reg
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=83-V.Jackson&pos=WR&season=reg
Nice idea and reasoning Donnie. It’s a good and bold idea. I agree Jackson > Boldin. The Ravens don’t give big contracts to FA WRs though.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
This. I found it to be at least worthy of a discussion. I think Jackson is better than Boldin right now as well, but at the end of the day I don’t think we will give up that kind of money for him and because of Boldin’s leadership on a young offense I don’t think they would do it. Boldin plays a vital role in helping develop the young guys and can still play so ultimately I think it’s best that we keep him.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Yep. From what I’ve read, Boldin played a big role in Torrey’s development last year.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
Thanks
I know it’s a crazy thing to even bring up, but I hope I’ve built up enough of a reputation around here so people know I don’t just come out of nowhere saying crazy shit with no reasoning. I think it’s 99.999999999% likely not to happen, but I think it’s feasible. The net of losing Boldin/Evans and acquiring Jackson would be even in the best case scenario, or maybe we’d spend about 2 million more (total) on Jackson. I don’t think he’ll get over 10 mil per year, and what other team could give him that money and the instant chance for a ring?
NE? Although, they don’t like to pay big money to FAs too. SF? I have no idea about their cap situation.
Given Jackson’s past history of holding out for the big payday; I think he goes to the team that pays him the most.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
There may not be a team willing to pay him huge money
He’s a great receiver, but he’s not Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or Larry Fitzgerald. With the flooded FA market and strong WR draft class, I don’t see him getting more than 10 million per year, I’d take him at that price, but maybe he takes 9 million per year over 10 million from the Redskins or some other sorry team.
Jackson is looking for $$
It would be a bad move to use money on a position where we have young talent (doss, williams) plus theres solid WRs out there to go after. It wouldn’t be worth the money since the Ravens have to sign Flacco, Rice, Grubbs (maybe/hopefully) & Webb.
Jackson is looking for $
but I’m sure he wants to win too. The free agent market is flooded with WRs this year, and it’s a strong draft class, so that will drive down his value a little bit. I see Jackson getting a 4 year deal and it could be as low as 32 million, but I think no higher than 40. If Boldin is making about 7 or 8 million this year, I’d give an extra million or 2 to get Jackson.
1) we rarely pursue big name FAs, especially at WR, and we won’t be lured into a bidding war.
2) Drafting WRs high has been a crap shoot for us.
In the first, we’d like to take a sure thing. I see either OL or pass rusher as being most obvious, with the caveat that I can’t imagine us passing Vontaze if he’s still on the board.
Then in the 2nd, I see us filling the other one of those two needs that was not filled in the first; OL or pass rusher.
So I see us looking at WR in the 3rd at the earliest. With the extreme depth in the draft at WR and the glut of talented FAs, good players could slip. That being said, there are several tall guys I could see us considering 3rd round or later:
McNutt of Iowa, Streeter from Miami(FL), Jeff Fuller of A&M, Brian Quick of App State.
These guys’ positions will rise and fall depending on the combine, but they’re all in the 4.5 to 4.6 range (ballpark estimates) and have good vertical range. Quick is probably the weakest, being both slow and having had some high profile drops, with Streeter IMO being the most attractive with impressive speed (possibly sub 4.5) and height.
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 13, 2012 1:44 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Mcnutt, Streeter and Stephen Hill are my favorites. Stephen Hill I think is a pretty underrated prospect who could drop. Has the size at 6’4 which would be perfect for us and I believe he lead all of college football last year in yards per catch. Plus Georgia tech seems to be turning out beasts at WR lately.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Averages 29 YPC which isn’t too shabby. Also with Georgia tech being an option offense it’s a must for their WR’s to learn how to block.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Also with Georgia tech being an option offense it’s a must for their WR’s to learn how to block.
Good point. I am sure Allen would appreciate getting Hill on this team.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Yeah he is really turning into one of my favorites for us. I think based on his talent and with him looking like a late 2nd to late 3rd round pick that he would be one of the best values at WR.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Hill probably could get a extra boast not only from a good performance from the nfl combine but also since he will be coming from the same school as Calvin Johnson and D. Thomas
who both all big tall wideouts that have had success in the nfl. I like Hill and i think i might add him to my ravens mock draft
Definitely would be a great fit here. Great Athlete and a guy who I think is getting overlooked because of the type of offense they run.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
i knew i was forgetting someone
IIRC hill is pretty speedy and a good 40 could put him up in the draft
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 13, 2012 2:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah he doesn’t have elite speed, but for his size runs very well and can run after the catch as well. I really love this WR class and will be dissapointed if we don’t take advantage of it. I think with Cam’s offense needing another deep threat that Streeter and Hill would be the two best fits for that. Both are about 2nd to 3rd round guys and would be amazing if one of them was available in round 3.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Its a gold mine
maybe the best WR class in over a decade. We WILL get someone, if not two guys in the mid rounds. But truly taking advantage means value, and value is mid-rounds. I’m now convinced we won’t take a WR 1st.
I find it hilarious that people are talking about FAs when the draft is this stacked and we’re this tight against the cap.
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 13, 2012 2:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Agreed. Now the more and more I think about it I don’t think we go WR round 1 either. Would love Floyd, but with so many big and fast WR’s I think it’s best we wait. There’s no elite prospects IMO like an AJ Green or Julio Jones of last year, but depth wise it’s stacked. I really think it’s time to give up on the 1 or 2 year vet stop gaps and make a real effort at developing a WR core that can grow with Flacco.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
I like the wideout Jordan white he doesnt have the size like we all want from a wideout
but i think he will be a steal for anyteam that draft him
Yeah big injury concern though with tearing his ACL twice. He’s best working the middle and as we know Cam won’t take much advantage of that.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
We'll trade you a 3rd for Boldin
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
Flip Oher for Ngata.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 13, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Can I sweetin’ the deal with Kemo?
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 13, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Can they afford to lose kemo after neglecting he O line for so long… Sad
by Evan Skev on Feb 13, 2012 5:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Of course, they could afford it. It’d be near 4 million off the books.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
Follow me on Twitter
by John Stephens on Feb 13, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
therapy?
no thanks
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 13, 2012 5:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I actually really like the Idea..
I think it would just be really tricky pulling it off. What if you dump Boldin and Jackson resigns with the Chargers? Too much of a risk I think…
Don't let my defense dictate your offense..
Exactly. Just because you get rid of one guy doesn’t mean the other automatically signs here. Not going to happen.
"Picture Me Rollin"
yeah but this could :
Ozzie – well Jackson we want to sign you but we have to get rid of boldin. are you ready to be a raven
Vincent Jackson- yeah im ready just let me know when so we can get the deal done.
(4 hours has pass and its been reported Boldin is released)
Ozzie: well jackson are you ready to be a ravens now
Vincent Jackson: ummm I dont know how to tell you this but ummm…. i been re-signed to the chargers. sooo ummm Happy V day :)
ozzie; what have i done :(
Joe Flacco: what the hell ozzie!!!. first you get rid of my mason now my boldin I swear to my dads unibrow you better not get rid of my pitta. Whats wrong with you man? jeez momma said it be days like this
who knew? ??
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 14, 2012 11:55 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Shocked
(In a really bad French accent) – shocked-!
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
What if you dump Boldin and Jackson resigns with the Chargers? Too much of a risk I think…
Of course we would acquire Jackson first before any hypothetical Boldin trade. As you said, can’t risk losing Boldin and have no backup plan.
Am I the only person that isn’t impressed with VJax…and he is 29 … Is the guy worth all the money?
by Evan Skev on Feb 14, 2012 10:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Is Boldin worth the money he’s making if Cameron refuses to use him properly? I don’t think Jackson would cost much more than Boldin, and he fits the system much better.
I just wish we had a different OC so Boldin could be used the way he needs to be used, he’s perfect for the way our offense should be. He is a possession receiver, everyone knows that, yet he’s only catching roughly 53% of the passes thrown his way. That’s a result of the system.
draft draft draft draft draft
"And, don’t get me started on Joe Flacco," Simms continued. "Did the experts watch the game? Joe didn’t miss a throw, not one. I watched every play. Every time he had the opportunity, he hit the guy. And, he made some moves so he could complete other throws. Are these people watching? What was Joe supposed to do with Texans in his face? Throw it up and hope? Sometimes a sack is a good thing. The object is to win the game. You did."
by jackmca on Feb 14, 2012 10:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I get what you're saying
but WR is Ozzie’s kryponite in the draft, and swapping a 31 year old (32 early next season) for a 29 year old would be better for the long term, and we could still draft someone to be a #3 and let him and Torrey grow with Joe, but with Jackson, Torrey, possibly Evans at a reduced cost, and Doss, we may not need to draft a WR, we really need to focus on bolstering the trenches, where we got our butts kicked down the stretch. O line, DE/OLB edge rusher, and possibly MLB.
Look, I know this is never going to happen, but I just don’t see any negatives about it.
but WR is Ozzie’s kryponite in the draft
It was his kryptonite when we had sorry examples for QB’s playing for us. Now that we have a franchise QB, I find it hard to think that we will see many “busts” at WR (meaning any WR drafted in the first 3 rounds).
Hell, Joe even made Laquan look good at times.
Are you telling me that if we drafted Floyd, Jeffrey or Sanu in the first that we will have a slim chance of hitting on them because of Ozzie’s history with WR where the likes of Boller, Wright, Dilfer, Banks, Grbac, Stewart, etc were the QB’s? I don’t think so. I see us hitting on far more WR in the future now that Joe is the man.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Here is a list of WRs we've drafted in the first 3 rounds
Patrick Johnson, 1998 round 2
Travis Taylor, 2000 round 1
Devard Darling, 2004 round 3
Mark Clayton, 2005 round 1
Yamon Figurs, 2007 round 3
Of course there’s also Torrey this past year. Tell me which of those guys would have been better with a better QB. The only WRs we’ve drafted later than round 3 who did anything in their career were Jermaine Lewis, mostly as a returner and Brandon Stokley, mostly with Peyton throwing to him.
I hate to say anything negative about Ozzie, but you can not deny his horrible track record with WRs.
Yep. If they were good WRs, they would have left us and gone on to do something with another team. Mark Clayton is the only guy that did a little something, and it wasn’t that much.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
I thought Mark Clayton was good he just didnt live up to his first round status be he definitely
was a sold wideout for the ravens
I agree with that
good, but not 1st round good. I was pissed when we traded him and signed Housh, horrible move. Clayton would have been a perfect #3 receiver for us.
I would have loved to see Patrick Johnson with Joe. That guy had the same talents as Torrey, but no one who could take advantage of it.
"Picture Me Rollin"
That
I think is a bit of a stretch. PJ was nothing special.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
And 5 WR in a 15 year span isn’t exactly bad. That is also the position which has more busts than any out there.
Tough to find those quality WR, especially when you have a shitty QB situation for 12 years.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Compared to the rest of ozzie’s record, that wr resume is weak
by YeahDonnie on Feb 15, 2012 11:58 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I know this, but do you not find it a bit strange that we finally hit gold with a guy like Torrey with Joe as our QB?
I just honestly see that trend of “busts” coming to a halt now that we have someone who can get them the ball. Don’t you have faith in the other guys like Doss and Laquan after seeing what they were able to do with Joe in the preseason and a few times in the regular season?
I definitely think a player like Alshon Jeffrey, Floyd, Sanu, Quick, etc would have a much easier time living up to their draft status in this Ravens era than they would circa 1998-2007
"Picture Me Rollin"
Completely agree Joe makes any receiver better than they would be with Boller, etc. But none of those guys exactly had wonderful careers after they left here. I don’t think Laquan will be more than a special.teamer but I definitely want to see more of Doss. I hope Joe is the difference and Ozzie can start finding receivers like the Steelers, Giants, and some other teams have been able to do but I don’t think it was all the bad QB situation that made our receivers bad, most of them were just bad
by YeahDonnie on Feb 15, 2012 1:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You're not the only one
His highest catch total is 68 in a season. 29 means he will be in his 30’s soon. Overrated.
"Picture Me Rollin"
Boldin is 31, and will be 32 for most of the season
he’s also had injury problems his whole career, and has taken more hits…and harder hits, than most WRs because of his play style, so who knows when he will hit the wall. I hope he has plenty of good years left in him, and I hope Cam somehow realizes what he does best and stops trying to force him to be a player he’s not…but there is nothing to indicate otherwise.
he’s also had injury problems his whole career
This was my favorite thing about when we signed him. Everyone said he can’t play a full season, we will be lucky to get 12 games a year from him, etc.
He has been very healthy for us besides those last 2 games (which he probably could have played in BTW)
"Picture Me Rollin"
He has been very healthy for us besides those last 2 games (which he probably could have played in BTW)
I think some of the reason why Boldin has been healthy because the ravens dont used him in certain ways consistently like the cardinals offense did.
Well I would rather use him the way we are now and have him for 16 games than the way Arizona was and have him for 10 games.
"Picture Me Rollin"
I’d rather use him the most effective way for his talents
by YeahDonnie on Feb 15, 2012 12:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
enough of this thread
In Ozzie We Trust
Bulger/Smith 2011 :)
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