Let's Put The Flacco vs. Ryan Debate To Rest Please
by nflvisitor11 on Jan 10, 2012 10:43 AM EST
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PrintSince they came into the league four years ago, Baltimore Ravens QB Joe Flacco and Atlanta Falcons QB Matt Ryan have been compared to each other constantly. With Sunday's demoralizing playoff loss to the New York Giants, Ryan's third bad playoff loss in three trips to the post season, it's time to put this debate to an end. Can we please end this Flacco/Ryan argument right now?
In his entire career, Ryan has had better receivers, including the ultimate security blanket in Tony Gonzalez, and for the first two Flacco/Ryan years, Michael Turner was a better running back then Ray Rice (Rice came in the league the same year as Flacco and Ryan but didn't really break out until his third year), and an easier division (arguably, I admit but he doesn't have the Steelers!) and just plain stinks come playoff time, 0-3 now for his career with two of those losses being home games.
Now we both know Flacco's playoff numbers have not been great but he has beaten the Tennessee Titans at home (with a GW 4th quarter FG drive), the New England Patriots at home (great performances by Rice and the "D" but Flacco was solid) and now has his first home playoff game coming up. Flacco is 4-3 for his career in the playoffs with a victory each of his 3 previous years, the first QB to win a playoff game in each of his first 3 seasons. oh, and Ryan never had a first round bye.
Of course, my very good friend, who happens to be a huge Steelers fan (check out this link for his analysis of the Steelers season) has to throw in his opinion,
" One could play a very convincing devil's advocate. Joe Flacco has the far superior defense year in and year out (definitely true) and they certainly help mask the few games a year where Flacco is abysmal. Ryan has a much smaller margin of error. Also, while Michael Turner is a top ten back, he is not even remotely close to the security blanket for Ryan that Ray Rice is for Flacco as a receiver out of the backfield. In 2011, Turner had 168 yards receiving and 0 TD's. In fact, in 119 career games (not all of them were starts) Turner has a grand total of 400 yards receiving and 0 TD's!! By comparison, Ray Rice had 704 yards receiving and 3 TD's in 2011, and in only 61 career games he has 2,235 yards receiving and 5 TD's!!"
Everything he says is true except for a few things:
1. Ryan plays in a dome with another one in New Orleans and in Tampa Bay with horrible defenses in his division (yes, including NO which is only decent) while Flacco plays outside with two games a year vs. the Steelers.
2. For Ryan/Flacco's first two years, Turner was better than Rice at the time, though Rice was always a superior receiver and has surpassed Turner at this point as a runner. Plus, Ryan has Gonzalez and Roddy White, much less rookie Julio Jones, all arguably better than any receivers the Ravens have.
3. Yes, the Ravens "D" has always been better but to have two games at home in the dome and be completely shut down!?!? Let's settle this now, I'll take Flacco, done deal.
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
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Nice story
With a few minor edits, I liked it enough to PROMOTE it!
Congrats and thanks for the effort!
aka 'Rexx'
Thanks!
Thank you so much for reading and enjoying!
by nflvisitor11 on Jan 10, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Can you guys imagine if Joe had Roddy White and Julio Jones to throw to? Don’t get me wrong, I like Boldin and Torrey, but White & Jones are on another level. And once again, Matt Ryan will be watching the Super Bowl at home this year, whereas Flacco…
by StuckInUtah on Jan 10, 2012 10:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Are you kidding? Ryan is the next Peyton and Flacco will be lucky to be in the league next year.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Flacco will be lucky to be in the league next year.
I think that REALLY depends on how Dancing with the Stars turns out…
Cam Cameron - the creator of the Prevent Offense™, and best-selling author of "150 Short Runs Into the Line on 3rd and 10"
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Jan 10, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Lol.
That was sarcasm.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by organizedchaos52 on Jan 10, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Thought provoking
I feel it’s very difficult to make quaterback comparisons just as it is difficult to compare the skill personal from team to team. I fully understand that there are statistics however these can be very misleading. I feel that Matt Ryan and Joe are both excellent young quaterbacks in 2 different systems being asked to do different things as leaders of their teams. I would venture to say that down the road we will see which qb is better. Let me put this out there where does Dan Marino rank on the qb scale not having won a superbowl!!!!
Marino ranks as the exception to the rule.
I know you aren’t arguing that Matt Ryan has shown anything near Dan Marino’s level…
Good to hear jazz. Maybe Matt can print them all out and make a scrapbook while Joe plays for the Lombardi.
by StuckInUtah on Jan 10, 2012 12:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe Matt can print them all out and make a scrapbook while Joe plays for the Lombardi.
Still had a better year than Joe Flacco
He sure did jazz, he also has less playoff wins than Tim Tebow too….#justsaying
by StuckInUtah on Jan 10, 2012 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He sure did jazz, he also has less playoff wins than Tim Tebow too….#justsaying
Yes Tebow has more playoffs wins than Matt Ryan but his stats aren’t better than Matt Ryan. I dont even think you can honestly say he is a better quarterback than Matt Ryan
look jazz, i understand the argument. but after 4 years of this back and forth, it should be obvious which QB you want in a game you gotta win
by nflvisitor11 on Jan 10, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Career-wise
They are real, real close. Besides, Matt had to play more from behind this past year than Joe did. Hence, bigger numbers. Just saying….
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jan 10, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that may be true but Matt still had the better year stat wise then Joe Flacco.
His quarterback rating was better than Joe , passing yardage was better than joe , and passing for toucdowns was better then joe.
Let me ask you something j-dub, would you rather have Matt Ryan under center than Joe?
by StuckInUtah on Jan 10, 2012 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly I would rather have Joe Flacco at this point but it still doesnt take away the fact that Ryan had a better year than Joe Flacco statwise.
Yes Flacco has more plays offs wins than Matt Ryan but if you look at both there stats this year you will see Ryan stats are way better. No I’m not saying Ryan is better than Joe but he had a better year and unlike Joe Flacco he has been to the pro bowl
So he has more pro bowls than playoff wins… Ok we need to get Matt Ryan immediately
by Evan Skev on Jan 10, 2012 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So he has more pro bowls than playoff wins… Ok we need to get Matt Ryan immediately
All Im saying is Ryan had a better year stat wise then Joe Flacco. Every one else wants to keep bringing up play off wins and etc. I find it crazy when I bring up the fact that Ryan had a better year stat wise it’s as if others are thinking I’m saying he’s a better quarterback than Joe
I have no idea what you’re trying to say half the time… When does school start
by Evan Skev on Jan 10, 2012 2:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have no idea what you’re trying to say half the time…
Well failing kindergarden so many times can do that to you.
When does school start
Why would I tell you when it most likely you wont under stand?
I failed second grade…big diff
And I understand the calendar
by Evan Skev on Jan 10, 2012 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Depends on which stats are more important to you . . .
Football is the consummate TEAM sport which requires all players to do their job well in order to win. So, even though wins vs. losses is the most important stat to me, I recognize that you can’t pin that solely on the QB (though he can be a heavy contributor in either direction). All that being said, it really is unfair to compare quarterbacks to one another as there are never identical factors able to be taken into consideration. Matt Ryan may have have better yardage, TD to INT ratio and QB rating every year of the last four, but has yet to win a playoff game (even at home) and this year had to make it into the playoffs as a wild card. Bottom line for me: Joe Flacco is an effective quarterback for the Ravens and, in my mind, the best we’ve ever had. So, despite Joe’s technically inferior stats to both Ryan’s and his own performance over the 3 previous years, I think he had the far better year than Matt Ryan and the slightly better beginning to his career.
Michael Oher is so fast off the ball that he only appears to be off-sides.
I know what you are saying Jazz. Ryan isn’t a bad QB by any means and he certainly has the stats behind him this year (though their career stats are really really close). However, Joe has been able to win more games throughout his career and win more playoff games in his career.
With the stats being so close, the wins have more merit. Ryan is more marketable, but Joe is the better QB.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
It's not apples to apples when comparing their stats
Matt Ryan plays 2/3 of his game in a DOME. When he plays on grass and/or in cold weather, his numbers stink.
Not even close. J-5 by a landslide.
Been Saying This
For a while. Yes, Ryan has slightly better personal stats than Flacco, but Flacco is not so off Ryan’s numbers. In fact, if you use the eyeball test, they are almost indistinguishable. However, where Joe has it all over “Matty Ice” (what? He is selling Uggs now?) is where it counts the most- wins, and especially wins in the post-season.
Everybody always screams “Team!” when I bring that up, but nobody screams team whenever Peyton, Rodgers, Brees or Brady win. When they win it is all QB all the time. Double standard, and I am sick of it.
Joe Cool may not be flashy like the above mentioned QB’s (is there a product Peyton has not hawked at some point in his career?), may not have a snappy Nationwide commercial like Rodgers or grace fashion magazines covers like Brady, and may only get regional fast food endorsements (anybody outside of Baltimore know that Joe slings for Pizza Hut? No hands? Not surprised), but that doesn’t change the fact that he wins. Period.
Here’s another double standard. Tebow. Yes Tebow’s is a compelling story for a good reason, and more folks like Tebow would make the world abetter place, but when the Broncos win, it is all about Tebow. Nobody, and I mean nobody inside or outside of football is going to make the argument that Tebow is a better QB that Flacco. Yet the Ravens win, Flacco gets a line in the boxscore, if he is lucky. Broncos win and Tebow gets bridges named after him…
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
by vlad755 on Jan 10, 2012 1:12 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
The reason they don’t bring it up is because those QBs will put up huge games to win it, not just be mediocre and happen to win…those guys you mentioned also have all, ALL won Super Bowls. Flacco and Ryan both don’t get to move past those kinds of comments because they just aren’t good enough. Sorry.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Why are you sorry..strange thing to say
by Evan Skev on Jan 10, 2012 2:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed . . .
Qadry Ismail and Brett Hollander had an entire conversation about this last night on WBAL. Q conjectured that the reason Joe suffers in comparison to Matt AND as a leader in comparison to other guys in the Ravens’ locker room is completely based on personality and leadership style. For many, volume and passion/emotion are the standards by which leaders, especially in sports, are judged. They pointed out that each team responds to different kinds of leaders and there are often more than one and/or more than one type present. There was no way that Joe, as a 3rd string rookie QB, even though called on suddenly to start (and with overall great results) was going to become the team’s leader, vocal or otherwise, over the likes of Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and others with more experience and bigger personalities. Even when Ray and Ed retire, Joe will not have the same leadership style they did. The overall consensus seemed to be that Joe may take longer to develop his own style and may never be a true “limelight” guy, so may always suffer by comparison, regardless of his effectiveness.
Michael Oher is so fast off the ball that he only appears to be off-sides.
I think the key to Joe as far as leadership is, we already have enough motivating screamers.
Joe seems like a bit of an introvert and just doesn’t have that loud screaming and yelling personality. He leads by example, by staying cool and keeping the team on track.
Composure is just as important as motivation and that is one of the things he adds to the team.
Agreed. I think some see leadership only as the Ray Lewis style of getting everyone pumped and all that and that’s just not the case.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
I agree there are different types of leadership and Ray Lewis has a aggressive type leadership whiile Joe Flacco has a passive type leadership.
I think a person with a aggressive type leadership is alot better than Passive because there’s going to be times where the followers are going to need to be bumped up, which a passive leader wont be able to do.
Just curious...
Do you think Joe is a good leader? Do you think he has better leadership skills than QBs like Tebow, Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Stafford, Brees, Dalton?
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
Brady or Brees no.
Lately maybe not even Tebow. A few months ago clearly but the Broncos are really starting to rally around him, plus he takes a lot of the media pressure off his team mates.
I think he is about on par with the rest though. All of them lead the team in some way or another but there are older players with more influence on those teams.
Do you think Joe is a good leader?
I think Joe is good leader but is still developing his leadership skills .
Do you think he has better leadership skills than QBs like Tebow, Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Stafford, Brees, Dalton?
well you have to consider the type of leaderships skills each quarterback ( the ones you listed) have. Overall quarterbacks like rodgers, ryan, brees, stafford, dalton, tebow and brady have a aggressive type leadership while Joe Flacco leadership is a passive type leadership.
Overall I dont think his leadership skills are better than Brees , rodgers, and Brady but atleast he’s a leader
I think he steps up when he has to. When Mason was yelling at him on the sidelines, he put that old man in his place pretty damn fast. Now that Ray seems on the verge of retirement, Joe is starting to let a little more out but overall he’s very composed and very quiet.
He’s not ready to be a Brady and yell at people on the sidelines. That isn’t his style and it isn’t how this team is built in the first place. Guys like Brady get to show that fire because the team has no other leaders to step up and they let guys like Brady walk all over them because of their status. Joe on the other hand has shown that when the chips are down, everyone has enough faith in him and his abilities to let him lead them to better things.
He pumps his fist when he throws a TD and doesn’t sulk when he throws an INT and that is what I want in my QB.
PS: not really sure why Dalton is on the list.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly?
I am not really all that impressed with either of them. They are both too up and down for me to put any confidence in either of them to make the big plays when it counts. Flacco will likely never have to worry about a team throwing down 45 or whatever my packers did on Ryan last year in the playoffs. I don’t know why they are being compared when neither is even close to cracking the top 5 in the league. Are there other positions where we compare slightly above average positions against each other. Sorry that may sound a bit harsh but it seems like a weird argument to make for either side. If I were starting a franchise I don’t know that either of them would overwhelm me with excitement.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
If I were starting a franchise I don’t know that either of them would overwhelm me with excitement.
You are used to seeing Rodgers and I’m not surprised you would say such things. Flacco and Matt Ryan are two good quarterbacks also quarterbacks that are still very young/ still developing.
I don’t know why they are being compared when neither is even close to cracking the top 5 in the league
The reason why Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan are compared is because they both were two rookie quarterbacks that started earlier than expected and have done a good job so far as starting quarterback. If it wasn’t for Joe and Matt rookie quarterbacks probably wouldn’t be starting as early as they are now.
This all started with . . .
the naming of Matt Ryan as Offensive Rookie of the Year. His and Flacco’s stats that year were nearly identical, except that the Falcons didn’t win their first playoff game that year and the Raven’s made it to the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB.
Michael Oher is so fast off the ball that he only appears to be off-sides.
Joe will never get the credit for his wins ever. The defense will always overshadow any accomplishment Joe has. If we win the SuperBowl, it will be because of the defense stopping X Team.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Rodgers is still very good, but on the Ravens, he wouldn’t be putting up 400+ yards a game or hanging up 45 points. If anything, having Flynn put up 5 TDs and 500+ yards kinda shows that its not all Rodgers over there in Green Bay.
Either way, I think you might be taking for granted that you guys have a QB and the system that you do. You have been able to play poor to mediocre teams while putting up great stats in the process and that kinda blurs any issues that come along.
I think Rodgers is better than both Flacco and Ryan, but he also doesn’t have half the adversity to overcome as Flacco does (horrible OC, mediocre #2 WRs, etc).
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I object . . .
to the wording of this poll. I have always been a “Flacco Gal” and proud of it. Please keep in mind that not all members/visitors of this blog are men.
Michael Oher is so fast off the ball that he only appears to be off-sides.
Sorry!
I should be more gender neutral when writing my polls!
by nflvisitor11 on Jan 10, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Duh Winning!
I’ve gotten sick of hearing about the magical Tebow and his ability to win. Flacco has been doing it for years and gets little credit. He won 44 games in his first 4 seasons in the NFL, a feat no other has accomplished.
Matt Ryan has a weaker arm and is 0-3 in the playoffs with his latest effort a pretty pitiful display.
Fu Man Joe in a walk.
"Have a good time...all the time." - Viv Savage
That About
Fu Man Joe in a walk
Sums it up.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
What debate? It's not even close between Flacco & Ryan.
When the Falcons played the Texans, Ryan missed numerous big throws, got rattled by the crowed noise, was intimidated by the rush and generally played like a little girl.
As far as throwing the deep ball goes, Ryan can’t carry Flacco’s jock strap. Flacco killed us in the week 6 game; Ryan was a joke in week 13.
Glad to See
An unbiased outsider with no dog in either fight make an observation.
Welcome to the Beatdown!
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
As much as I dont like Flacco.... which is a lot
this isnt a debate
Id take flacco 12351937594357345 times over matt ryan
give flacco those weapons for a season and see what happens.
The fumbles are an issue though
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
whoa–
whoa—
while i have never compared flacco’s game or wins to ryan there is no doubt in my opinion that the raven’s have had the more talented roster over the last 2 seasons. after acquiring bolding the ravens were beyond the falcons.
FreedomRide said:
“When the Falcons played the Texans, Ryan missed numerous big throws, got rattled by the crowed noise, was intimidated by the rush and generally played like a little girl.”
to answer back to posts like the one from freedomRide and others in my own words: -when the ravens played jacksonville, tennessee, the jets, san diego and other smaller times during games, flacco missed numerous big throws, got rattled by the crowed noise, was intimidated by the rush and generally played like a little girl.
flacco is baltimore’s quarterback, and i support him. he makes good throws, great throws and sometimes bad ones. but like others, i’m not consistently impressed enough with him. and if i hear about the playoffs 4 straight years in a row again
i’m done. he’s been CARRIED there by the #1 or #2 defense of the last decade in the NFL. stop giving the credit for wins to flacco. say thank you to the defense!
Did you know Flacco has been to the playoffs 4 years in a row? Only QB to ever do that. Pretty cool huh?
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
First 4 years.*
Pretty sure Manning went to the playoffs for a bunch of years in a row.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by organizedchaos52 on Jan 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
and they had to rebuild that entire team from ashes after the mike vick fiasco. and by the way, flacco had TWO bailout receivers in the always underrated “mr-perfect-routes” derrick mason and the unforgettable todd heap. flacco has 4 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in the playoffs.
NOT impressive. he needs to fix that this weekend.
with two games against pittsburgh dont forget. also, roddy white and tony gonzalez arent so bad at bailing out QB’s either…
by nflvisitor11 on Jan 11, 2012 8:03 AM EST up reply actions
Mason and Heap are good players, but neither is a HOF'er liked Gonzalez and
everyone agreed Mason was not a good #1 receiver like Roddy or Boldin.
i hear what you're saying. gonzalez and roddy white ARE pretty good...
but i feel that it’s waving a white flag to the marvelous raven’s careers of todd heap and derrick mason. the falcons signed gonzalez at the absolute end of his career. he’s never been the hall of fame tight end while in atlanta. and i’ll let mason’s stats speak for themselves. mason in fact was so undervalued that everyone in raven nation knows we might be 1 or 2 wins better if he were signed back as the #3 receiver. but that’s another issue with its own complications.
mason in fact was so undervalued that everyone in raven nation knows we might be 1 or 2 wins better if he were signed back as the #3 receiver.
Considering his absolute lack of production this season, I’d have to say a lot less than “everybody” in raven nation knows that. The dude was cut by 3 teams.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
a whopping 170 yards from a guy who wasn’t injured… just unemployed.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
a whooping 74 yards from a guy that was once as first round pick and drops easy passes when hes wideopen
not only did he lost his starting spot by a rookie but also during the bengels game a tight end by the name dennis pitta started in his place at the wideout postion after he drop another perfect passes from Joe Flacco. Yeah I definately take Mason 170 over lee evans 74 atleast we all know he wouldnt drop as many passes .
Mason got himself fired… then fired from.the Jets… then fired from the Texans
Much like the Gaither saga… What makes people think that the FO is cutting great players? These guys get cut for good reason…by one of the best FO in the NFL
by Evan Skev on Jan 11, 2012 9:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
unlike Mason
Gaither did play well enough to justify the very small risk the Chargers took on him.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
They’re both capable… And they both screw themselves out of jobs
As for SD, they were down to 4 healthy linemen…
by Evan Skev on Jan 12, 2012 12:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yes but
solid play is solid play, especially against our pass rush.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I don't think we got on that plane.
No one showed up.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by organizedchaos52 on Jan 12, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Enough of a solid set of games that the entire team LOVED him. I remember hearing or reading at some point that they attributed their turnaround this season to getting Gaither.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
So you are saying that you would rather have Heap for his usual 6 healthy games and Mason than Gonzalez and Roddy White?
If you even think about that, you don’t watch other teams play and have no idea about football outside of Baltimore.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
not 4 years in a row and he’s never won once he got there.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Even though he's gotten to play with his home field advantage (granted, against the future champions).
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by organizedchaos52 on Jan 12, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
OTHER!
Definitely other!
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I only do interviews in pterodactyl.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by organizedchaos52 on Jan 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
The problem with the current NFL re: elite QB's
demand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supply. One result of this is that many teams have wound up with guys that aren’t good enough to carry a team on his back the way the truly elite can do, but aren’t bad enough to be replaceable.
I think Ryan and Flacco both fit this category. So does our guy (Schaub, when healthy). None of these guys will ever truly make an entire fan base happy, nor will they escape the scrutiny of the media because of the impossible standard that QB’s are held to today, but the front office, rightfully, rolls with the guy because, frankly, what are the alternatives?
I think any of these guys can win a super bowl with the right team around them, as Eli Manning did. But will they ever be the guy that said team is built around? Hard to see it.
Kubiak believes in you
I've been telling people for years that Kubiak believed in me.
Thank you so much for your support.
In all seriousness, I almost agree with you. I think that Flacco has been limited by a system that never fit the personnel in Baltimore. Drew Brees didn’t look like a franchise QB in his first four years either.
It’s simply too early to say that Flacco can’t be elite.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I think it's too soon to say either way
I think Flacco can get better; I’m just trying to look at what he is right now. And maybe Cam Cameron is holding him back; you’re right that Drew Brees didn’t become elite until he left Cameron’s system in San Diego and found Sean Payton.
For now, I see a guy who can’t be forced into throwing the ball 40 times a game to win. And hopefully, for the Ravens’ sake, Cameron realizes this. If Ray Rice gets his, there’s no way you guys can be beat.
Kubiak believes in you
There are three types of people who believe Flacco is not a top tier QB:
Haters
Those who do not understand NFL football
Those who rely on what they read instead of watching every snap
The Ravens org and vast majority of fans are very happy with Joe Flacco. The rest of you can choke on your haterade.
See you in Indy
by Evan Skev on Jan 10, 2012 8:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not trying to hate
and will gladly admit that I don’t watch every snap of Ravens football.
But what I see in Flacco (from afar) is a guy who is struggling to take the next step, as is Matt Ryan. Sometimes he looks like he has (the Pittsburgh games) and sometimes he doesn’t (the Tennessee game). Maybe that’s more on Cam Cameron than it is on Flacco. If you truly are happy with him, then more power to you.
I happen to think this is the Ravens’ best chance to win a super bowl with Flacco. I also think that if it happens, it will be more because of their defense and running game, much like the Giants in ’07, than because of Flacco. I would be pretty happy about that myself.
No need to get personal about it.
Kubiak believes in you
Nothing personal…if you don’t watch the whole play, you can’t understand the ending… There are people who make their living by inciting and then there are Ravens executives and fans who understand the big picture… Then you have sheeple who are clueless but entitled to an opinion… All good
by Evan Skev on Jan 11, 2012 5:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
LOL evan
what the fuck dude
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
by jackmca on Jan 13, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lol I told you. The evidence was all there lol
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
I know I should have known.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Yeah! You should have! You’re so much smarter than that!
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
by jackmca on Jan 13, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks! you’re right! Hey, by the way, you’re really smart too! rec’d!
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
by jackmca on Jan 13, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
thaaaaaaaaanks
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
by jackmca on Jan 13, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha awesome.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Not exactly what you think but I like it
And Hue J shot himself in the foot with his big mouth
by Evan Skev on Jan 13, 2012 12:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A bit off topic,
but anyone think there’s any chance Hue Jackson comes back?
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by organizedchaos52 on Jan 11, 2012 7:47 PM EST reply actions
I was wondering the same thing.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
me too
but it would certainly be as an OC, not an HC. I’m not sure what scheme he prefers. I’ll go ask the OAK dudes on SB Nation what scheme he runs.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
That Scares
Me as we do not need another Cam Cameron/Norv Turner at OC. We need an updated West Coast style with some hurry- to no huddle- thrown in; at least that is what appears we have the personnel for.
The potential positive thing about Hue is, how did Joe get along with him? Assuming Joe got along with and respects Hue, then I might be okay with him coming back.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
The potential positive thing about Hue is, how did Joe get along with him? Assuming Joe got along with and respects Hue, then I might be okay with him coming back.
My impression is that Flacco liked Hue, but the coaching staff didn’t. I don’t remember where I heard the former, but I believe Head Nuggeteer Peter King wrote something to the effect of Jackson burning bridges here.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel
That Doesn't Surprise
Me given some of Hue’s words and actions out in Oakland.
May be better to look elsewhere if/when the Cam experiment is deemed complete.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
That Doesn’t Surprise
Me given some of Hue’s words and actions out in Oakland.
TJ Houshmandzadeh was on Sirius NFL (or whatever) yesterday talking about Hue Jackson and gave a bit of a different perspective on the coach. I don’t know that I’d be comfortable bringing Jackson back, but I think some of what he said may have been taken out of context, as well.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel
That Scares
Me as we do not need another Cam Cameron/Norv Turner at OC. We need an updated West Coast style with some hurry- to no huddle- thrown in; at least that is what appears we have the personnel for.
Just because Hue Jackson goes by the air coyrdell philosophy doesnt mean his overall style is the same as Cam or Norv. There are lots of offensive coordinator that go by the air coyrdell philosophy but still vary from other offensive coordinator style.
Im not sure if Joe Flacco will fit a west coach type offense but if it happens then we will see.
There are lots of offensive coordinator that go by the air coyrdell philosophy but still vary from other offensive coordinator style.
Name a few others in the NFL.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Mike Sherman,Bob Brawski, Tom Rossley, Mike Martz,
Al saunders,Tom Moore,Brian Schottenheimer and etc. These guys all run their offense by the air corydell philosophy but there style is alot different
oops tom rossley may not count because he currently a college coach
but he was offensive coodinator before in the nfl
same with Mike Sherman, and he's not accepting an OC gig bro
Who the hell is Bob Brawski? A google netted me result for “BILL BRASKY!” which is funny because a few weeks ago I had him as my sig…
as for Mike Martz and Brian Schottenheimer, they both just got fired. Moore was a consultant for that same hapless Jets offense.
In fact, there wasn’t a single Air Coryell offense that performed well this season. Oakland crapped the bed down the stretch and Palmer threw TONs of picks, the Jets have been running that system for a few years now and have made no visible progress, Rivers had one of his worst seasons ever, Martz got fired and has always coached some of the most sack-prone offenses (IMO the biggest disadvantage to the philosphy).
So basically, you can’t name me a single Air Coryell OC candidate coming off a successful season.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Given The
Evidence you present, a hybrid West-Coast/up-tempo offense is the way to go in today’s NFL. And ironically enough that is the personnel we have-! As good as Ozzie has been in architecting the pieces, Cam has more times than not tried to fit square pegs in round holes.
Cam actually does a good job game-planning for opponents, but his ingame adjustments are… < shutter >. And while he knows what to do to exploit a team’s defensive philosophy, he tries to do it via the Air Coryell way as opposed to doing it the way his own personnel would best be able to.
If we had the O-line pass blocking that the cowpokes did during their SuperBowl run, people would be talking about Flacco as… people did Aikman back then-! We just don’t have the pass blocking to make the Coryell offense work; that and you really need not one but two deep threats. Hear that, Lee?
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
Cam actually does a good job game-planning for opponents, but his ingame adjustments are… < shutter >.
Oh so true. I think this largely explains our success against Pitt this year, since Cam has learned LeBeau pretty well by now. This is also why I have high hopes coming off a bye in which Cam took a little trip down to H-Town to observe him some Wade Phillips.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Cam has more times than not tried to fit square pegs in round holes.
Martz is the exact same way. He lets his QBs get totally murdered time after time, until Lovie steps in and says “RUN THE DAMN BALL MIKE.”
Martz is interesting though because he uses a lot of 15-yard square-ins that are big-risk-big-reward. With proper protection and conditions in St. Louis, it was big play city. Put Cutler behind a porous line with questionable receivers in Chi-town, and it got ugly with a quickness.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
So basically, you can’t name me a single Air Coryell OC candidate coming off a successful season.
U never ask for air coryell oc candiate coming off a successful season. Matz and Brian did not get fired they both resign from their offensive coordinator duties with the teams they were with.
In fact, there wasn’t a single Air Coryell offense that performed well this season. Oakland crapped the bed down the stretch and Palmer threw TONs of picks
Oakland was ranked 11 in passing and seven in rushing
Chicago was ranked 28 in passing and 9 in rushing(keep in mind they loss there franchise quarterback to a injury)
Chargers were ranked 6th in passing and 16th in rushing .
You say there wasnt a single air corydell offense that perform well this season well if you look at the chargers and oakland you can tell they both had good offensive performances. Keep in mind you said well not great or excellent.
Martz resigned but come on, when was the last time his offense performed the way it was supposed to? He’s always at the top of the league in sacks.
What I would say about Oakland and San Diego is that they underperformed. Did they put up some decent numbers? At times, sure. But they didn’t come through when they needed to.
I’m pretty sure that if we fire Cam, we’ll move in a different direction philosophically. We’re obviously not hiring Schottenheimer or Martz, Hue Jackson sounds unlikely as well, Norv Turner still has his job, and the other guys you named are all NCAA guys. I really have no interest in an NCAA guy coming up to call all of our shots at the pro level.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I Heard the Elder
Schott is in the running for the Bucs job. In which case I also heard a rumor that he would bring his son on board, a la the Shanahans in DC.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
dumbest idea ever
You think a guy’s gonna have the heart to fire his own son if he’s screwing up? I’m going with NOT LIKELY.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
and the other guys you named are all NCAA guys. I really have no interest in an NCAA guy coming up to call all of our shots at the pro level.
Mike Sherman was a head coach of the packers in 05, asistant head coach/offense coach in o6-o7 and etc. He definately has experience at the pro level and has been successful success. For more info on him please go here
I'm familiar with Sherman
I left him out because I think it goes without saying that Sherman is a head coach. He doesn’t sound like a guy interested in an OC position to me.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
If no team hires him as a head coach and if the ravens show interest in him ( if cam is gone)
then i dont see him turning down the offer.
I believe he’s the favorite for the bucs HC job I read.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
What I would say about Oakland and San Diego is that they underperformed. Did they put up some decent numbers? At times, sure. But they didn’t come through when they needed to.
now you trying to change it up lol . Well take in consideration that both Oakland and San Diego lost some key players on offense that really didnt help them offensively.
What I said was they didn’t have successful seasons. Considering that they’re watching the playoffs from their living rooms this week, I stand by that.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
What I said was they didn’t have successful seasons. Considering that they’re watching the playoffs from their living rooms this week, I stand by that.
well thats overall a team thing but i do know one team that uses the air corydell offense that is in the playoffs.
And Trent Dilfer
Won a SuperBowl.
Your point?
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
well played Vladimir.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I think i should be saying to you what is your point.
What does trent dilfer have to do with this discuss?
Being in the playoffs doesn’t make you good is what this has do to with this dicuss
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
if you believe that then you overall statement which is
What I said was they didn’t have successful seasons. Considering that they’re watching the playoffs from their living rooms this week, I stand by that
is irrelevant
If your team didn’t make the playoffs, you didn’t have a successful season. But just being in the playoffs—and possibly going on a run—may not change the fact that your offensive system needs to be addressed in the offseason
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Point Is
Yes, the Ravens are the one team in the playoffs that run an Air Coryell system -that does not validate the system. Just as Trent winning the SuperBowl does not validate him as a QB.
Saints run a run-n-gun; Patriots and Packers run West Coast offenses; Broncos, 49ers, Texans all run a very conservative run first offense; not sure what the Giants run. I would hardly call that a ringing endorsement for Air Coryell.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
Yes, the Ravens are the one team in the playoffs that run an Air Coryell system -that does not validate the system.
yes thats true but i guess you could say the samething to jack since he was the one saying
What I said was they didn’t have successful seasons. Considering that they’re watching the playoffs from their living rooms this week, I stand by that
Simply put, we don’t have the personnel for that system and its very difficult to get that all together in 1 package. As much as we have been trying to get some players that fit that system, we are only like half way there. We do however have a system for quick strikes in the medium range with the occasional shots downfield (Patriots for instance).
But as someone else said, Cam has been trying to fit the square peg into the round hole for 4 years now and its time to move on from that. We need a guy that maybe has a grandiose vision for the offense, but knows how to make the best out of the current roster. We are a talented offense, but we just aren’t living up to potential and most of that comes from the OC not doing his job.
As far as any guys out there, I don’t really want anyone that got canned. I don’t want Marty (he wouldn’t jump down to an OC job anyway) and I can’t see any current OCs moving laterally to another OC job. I don’t know the guys a tier down from OC, but maybe we look around or maybe we bring in a college guy to do something interesting. Either way, Cam has got to go!
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 13, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Simply put, we don’t have the personnel for that system and its very difficult to get that all together in 1 package. As much as we have been trying to get some players that fit that system, we are only like half way there. We do however have a system for quick strikes in the medium range with the occasional shots downfield (Patriots for instance).
I cant see how they dont have the right pieces to fit the air corydell. the air corydell requires atleast a tall wideout or fast wideout. The ravens have two fast wideout with Lee Evans and Torrey Smith.
I must say since the ravens use their tight ends like wideouts frequently it also meets the requirements of the air cordell philosophy since they are 6 feet and 4 inches tall.
I guess you can say Anquan Boldin doesnt fit the Air Corydell but the ravens do use him in the slot frequently and most of his best plays have been made while he was working the outside instead of the inside.
. Either way, Cam has got to go!
I think Cam is doing fine so far and I think ravens fan expected too much from a offense that really had offensive weapons that were either in their second year or rookie year.
I see the major problem with the ravens offense this year were the drop passes. I beleive the ravens were ranked 3 or 4 in the league in drops. If a new offensive coordinator can be so great to the point wideouts/tightends start catching the ball then I’m all for it.
Do I believe Cam Cameron is perfect and he didnt have any bad days with playing calling ? no but what offensive coodinator doesnt have his bad days sometimes even Sean Payton had his bad days this year or even Josh McDaniels
Air Coryell
Requires not one, but two solid deep threats. The one we currently have is a rookie-! (albeit a very good one, but still, a rookie). And Lee Evans just isn’t it, and defenses are not going to worry about him (now if he lights it up against Houston, then maybe we have something; NFL is a “show me” league- until Lee “shows” he can do it, he is a non-factor). In addition, because of the deep routes and the lengthy pass options, it requires mostly five and seven step drops, which require an offensive line to block longer than your average unit. We do not have that in our current O-line. We have a very good zone-blocking line, which surprise is bread-and-butter for the West Coast running game.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
Thanks! We have the perfect set of guys to run what the Patriots run. a dink and dunk type of passing game, good screens, a deep threat and an efficient rushing attack.
I think we could easily put up 30+ points on a team every weekend if we ran things properly and stopped trying to do the big or bust attack.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 14, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
I keep hearing analysts talking about how the most pressure of the playoffs is on Flacco. How the hell does Flacco really have more than regular pressure? He’s won playoff games, he knows he’s the franchise QB…. the only thing that he really has any pressure is more from the fact that Ray and Reed want to retire on top.
From what I have heard and read so far, the analysts are saying that because of his “up and down” season, he has to prove that… blah, blah blah. Maybe its just me, but the guy has proven plenty in winning 12 games, sweeping our division (the toughest division in football right now) and getting us a home playoff game.
Monkey Feces for OC!
by Mstevens_Design on Jan 15, 2012 10:24 AM EST reply actions
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