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Q&A With Rams Blog: Turf Show Times

The Baltimore Ravens are playing at the St. Louis Rams this Sunday. I traded a set of questions with Joe McAfee of SB Nation's blog on the Rams, Turf Show Times. Joe will "hang out" on this post to respond to any comments you post about his answers and questions you might have about the Rams. Click here to go to their site to see my Q&A from the Ravens' perspective. Here are my questions (in bold) and Joe's answers: 

1. The Rams are off to an 0-2 start despite many thinking they could win the NFC West. What is the biggest reason they lost both games so far?

Well, the games were entirely different.  Against the Eagles, we shut everything down except for Vick eluding would-be tacklers on third downs in the first half; to try and stop that, we adjusted the defensive scheme, but that opened up their running game.  And it's kind of hard to pass on that secondary.  Damn good team.  On Monday, we just made the kind of mistakes that Rams fans have gotten used to.  1st and 1 from the 1, and you come away with 3 points.  A muffed punt return that leads to a Giants touchdown.  A lateral screen that gets dropped and returned for six.  We're just not good enough to beat teams when we make mistakes like that.

2. Sam Bradford is considered among the best young QBs in the league. What is his strength and what is his weakness?

The strength is his accuracy.  If you watched the Monday Night game, he made some absolutely amazing throws down the sideline to Danario Alexander and Lance Kendricks.  He's got a great touch on the ball on the deep throws.  At this point, his biggest weakness is making red zone reads.  Part of it is relative inexperience at the NFL level, and part of it is inexperience under Josh McDaniels.  He's got to get more comfortable in the red zone at looking off his first read and taking what the defense gives him instead of hoping his receiver can make a play.

 (Click on the 'Jump' more for Q&A with Turf Show Times)

Star-divide

3. Injuries have played a part already for the Rams. What is the status for RB Steven Jackson for Sunday's contest?

I expect he'll be a gametime decision again.  He warmed up with the team on Monday night, but opted to heed the trainers' advice and sit out.  He's still incredibly talented, so the sooner he gets back the better.

4. Who is one player on offense and defense we should know about and watch Sunday?

On offense, it's Danario Alexander.  He's got the skills to be a premier #1 receiver and the knees of an 85-year old ex-paratrooper.  He's got great size and hands, runs beautiful deep routes and has great speed to boot.  But he's had five (not a typo) knee surgeries, and this is only his second year in the league after a stellar career at Missouri.  The team has made it clear that they're not interested in testing the limits of his knee yet, but his role as a deep man in this offense (3 rec, 122 yds, 1 TD on Monday) is crucial to opening up the field for Bradford to hit Mike Sims-Walker, Brandon Gibson and rookie TE Lance Kendricks.

Defensively, Bradley Fletcher's rolling solo.  Working with Ron Bartell as the starting CB combo last year, Bartell started drawing focus from the better analysts across the league who saw how effective he was in physical coverage schemes.  With Ron Bartell out for the season with a doubly fractured neck, the spotlight is on Fletcher.  On Monday, the first test of his new role, he was wonderful, limiting Hakeem Nicks to just four catches for less than 40 yards.  He's legit.

5. What is your prediction on the outcome?

Honestly, you guys are a much better team IMO, but in the NFL, the better team can lose pretty easily.  Hell, look at you guys and Tennessee last week.  So if I were betting, would I put money on the Rams?  No.  But if I'm asked for a no-penalty prediction, I'll take the Rams 27-17.

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Jason Brown

how’s he been holding up?

by 3r1c on Sep 22, 2011 11:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Pretty well

He suffered last year from a lack of talent next to him at RG, but we signed Harvey Dahl who had been on the Falcons. He’s been back on track this year.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on Sep 22, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember wanting us to sign Alexander. His knees are horrible, but he didn’t get drafted and if his knees hold up he has a chance to be a very good player. People don’t realize he played ahead of Maclin in college and had an amazing college career.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 22, 2011 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Red Zone Stuff

Very cool post. That assessment of Bradford seems dead on after watching the Monday Night game against the Giants. Bradford showed pretty amazing accuracy and touch. But it all seemed to evaporate when they got inside the red zone. My guess is that will be our saving grace on Sunday. We’ll probably get carved up by Bradford, but if it only results in 3 points the vast majority of the time we should be OK.

Plus, we shouldn’t need to focus on the run like we did against the Titans. Fingers crossed.

by SL9178 on Sep 22, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions  

we have two healthy vets and one healthy rookie at CB… if the pass rush & O don’t look great, we lose this game

Bryan McCann?

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bryan McCann?

The Cowboys preferred Frank Walker to Bryan McCann. No thanks.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 22, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You base your personnel decisions on what the Cowboys do?

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Frank Walker is chosen by any team over another player, than you should know that player is pretty freaking bad.

"'If there isn't a bone sticking out of my leg, I'm playing" - Marshall Yanda

by Mr MaLoR on Sep 22, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus didn’t we already sign McCann and cut him last year or the year before?

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 22, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah he was cut but doing the time the ravens only signed him because he was really good as a kickreturner but they let him go after the ravens first game in 2010.

McCann did make plays for the Cowboys with his kickreturn touchdown and 100 yard interception but I doubt the ravens sign him

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 22, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

100 yard interception but I doubt the ravens sign him

What has he done besides that, though? He has two pass deflections in his career (11 games since 2010). Also, he’s listed as 5’10" and 186lbs; we have plenty of small cornerbacks as it is.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we tank in this game. if the rams poster feels that they contained the eagles until vicks 3rd down scrambles, they shouldn’t have much trouble with flacco in downs 1-3.

i would say we should win this game IF doss, dickson, torrey had more reps going into the game. they will be learning on the fly. dickson should have a good game. espn has him as the #8 sleeper of the week.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

to be fair though

we had our top CB, Ron Bartell, in the Eagles game; we didn’t have him last week. We still have Bradley Fletcher, though who limited Maclin to 1 catch for 20 yards. Against the Falcons in week 2, Maclin went off – 13 rec for 171 yards.
  As I mentioned above, he held Hakeem Nicks to four catches for just 40 yards. Against the Redskins in week 1, Nicks had 7 catches for 122. Should be an interesting passing game.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on Sep 22, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where would you rank the Rams’ secondary? Top 10? Bottom 10? Middle of the pack?

And how bad does the loss of Atogwe hurt?

"Is adult entertainment killing our children, or is killing children entertaining adults?"
-Marilyn Manson

by StuckInUtah on Sep 22, 2011 12:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Well, that's hard to do

  Let me take the second question first – not at all since we signed Quintin Mikell. He’s been a perfect veteran addition at the back of the secondary. As loved as Togs was, the Redskins were willing to pay him more.
  At the back, Craig Dahl is the starting SS – he’s a liability in pass coverage, but a solid run defender. Darian Stewart is the 3rd safety right now but could take over for Dahl by season’s end. I mentioned Fletcher above, and I think he’s going to start getting some media buzz this year. The real issue is the other CB spot now that Bartell’s gone for the year. Justin King is a flat speed guy; he really has issues covering to the inside. I expect the Ravens to go at him early, so you guys will notice how deficient he is early on.
  I guess if I had to rank them, I’d put them middle of the pack. Mikell and Fletcher are well above average, but the other spots need to be addressed in the offseason.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on Sep 22, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

ram guy-

how are your LB’s in pass coverage? with our WR’s not able to get separation we should target Dickson and Rice in the passing game. will st. louis force rice to run between the tackles. how do you think they game plan our RB and TE?

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

ravens guy-

  Better than last year. We went out and signed Ben Leber and Brady Poppinga, and they’ve definitely been an upgrade. Week 1 was a bit of an anomaly dealing with Vick; he torched us on the ground, but only passed for 187 yards. So it should be interesting to see how they do in this game.
  Actually, the Rams have struggled with the run, but they’ve faced two above average rushing attacks so far. And hell, Ray Rice is a handful for anyone. In terms of Dickson, it’s something we haven’t really seen yet – focusing on the TE in pass coverage. So I’m not sure how the Rams will approach Dickson as a receiving threat.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on Sep 22, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Foxworth said his knee hurts but he will leave the decision to sit or not to Harbaugh.

by Raven_all_day on Sep 22, 2011 1:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Man do we need Carr and Jimmy back. Looks like we won’t be seeing Jimmy back until after the bye week though.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 22, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carr said the week off really helped, he plans to play.

by Raven_all_day on Sep 22, 2011 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Great. But that still leaves us one injury away from having to throw a gimpy Foxworth back out there. God damn we need Jimmy back.

"Is adult entertainment killing our children, or is killing children entertaining adults?"
-Marilyn Manson

by StuckInUtah on Sep 22, 2011 1:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That’s good to here, but his hammy still worries me. Those can be tough to recover fully from. I hope he’s healthy because at this point I’m saying throw in Chykie over Foxworth. At least he’s healthy.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 22, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

-what a MESS! we have 0 healthy DB’s. thats comes with having a group of undersized DB’s who can’t take hits without heading to the hospital.
-every year, every year we are hung out to dry in the DB field. reed can’t be dominant when he’s chasing everyone’s coverage and ray can’t spy when he’s back in coverage.
-the rams coudn’t have picked a better time for this game.

we need to outscore them and prepare for a shoot out. i’d send TE’s deep and outmuscle for the deeper ball. Doss should be in this game. I think its time for the Doss, Dickson, Pitta era to begin (if there eligible). that would remind me of pitts old heavy downfield packages or ward, burris and TE.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 1:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I think its time for the Doss, Dickson, Pitta era to begin.

Agreed. I still don’t understand how Doss is last on the depth chart. He was the most consistent and I felt most ready young WR on the team and he isn’t even active. I really hope he gets a shot because he is more developed then Torrey or Laquan at this point.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 22, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Raven, you are so right. We do need to outscore them.

That is pure unadulterated genius for everyone to witness, bro. Thank you for your keen insight!

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 2:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

what i am saying, evan, is we won’t be able to keep St.Louis under 30 with our current situation in the DB area. Because of that, we need to open up our offense to make up for the increased frequency of Rams scoring. We aren’t going to win 10-7 or 17-10. No way. The Rams on turf with an accurate qb coming of a hell of a warm up vs. Philly will be ready for a slower QB, weaker receiving corp and far less potent DB position. It lines up pretty nicely for them. Whats the hot line to vegas!

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if playing on the turf will help Torrey get some seperation. He may just be able to flat out run people like in college. Hopefully, Joe and Torrey get on the same page, and Torrey applies a whole lot of stick um.

The writer formerly known as This White Man Can Jump; Powah Stached; Bear Killer; Da Dude; The Other Bambino; TJ Dropped The Season; Harbaugh Is My Co-Pilot; Billick's Alter Ego; Mr. Poopy Pants.

by El.Dude on Sep 22, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

flacco said himself its time he starts to beleive in the young talent he has.

Harbaugh said he may sit the banged up players; including Fox, Grubbs, and Evans.

by Raven_all_day on Sep 22, 2011 6:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’ll take your action if yoi want to bet rams

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 3:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

here’s a bet. loser can’t post until friday next week. i could use some time here with you on the bench. rams over ravens EVEN.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

loser doesn’t post until monday, october 2, 12:01 a.m. EDT

bet?

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

gonna miss you a very, very tiny bit

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

ill be here bs’n away sunday night. flacco will be head down on the mic explaining his struggles. seriously, 1/2 his offense won’t even know where to line up they are so unpracticed. we have some decent young dudes and, except dickson, they have no experience. do yourself a favor and list the DB’s and WR for this game. look at your list and tell me we will win on the road in a dome. the crowd (which won’t really be in it) could play a big roll if they wanted.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Raven, you need to change your name to pittsburger

and you can come back instead of serving your self-imposed exile

Learn how to be Baltimore fans, guys. I really wonder about some of you.

by Evan Skev on Sep 26, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh boy, here we go. Now if its a tie does that mean we don’t have to put up with either of you for a while?

"Is adult entertainment killing our children, or is killing children entertaining adults?"
-Marilyn Manson

by StuckInUtah on Sep 22, 2011 6:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Come on tie!!!!! :) Naw, your a good guy Raven

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

send him your cell number, matt.. and some pics in thong & pitt jersey

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't have a pitt jersey

But those thing pictures are already sent! ;)

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about a Pittsburgh thong? If not I can send you some Steelers jerseys, I have tons of ‘em. I buy them at the local thrift store (they’re cheaper than toilet paper).

"Is adult entertainment killing our children, or is killing children entertaining adults?"
-Marilyn Manson

by StuckInUtah on Sep 22, 2011 8:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Do they even sell Steelers thongs smaller than XXXXXL?

by YeahDonnie on Sep 22, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey now, I’m bigger than that. I have a very large…….. waist, yeah waist

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do I have a feeling your more Dustin Hoffman Tootsie than your picture implies.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I just saw that as of right now the rams pass defense is rank 5th in the league well all I have to say is I hope these rookies are ready because Boldin can’t do it all by him self and using the tight ends are good but it would be better if the ravens can use them along with solid wideouts outside of Boldin and Evan

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 22, 2011 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Stats like that are a little misleading this early on though. The Rams were behind in both games and teams have been able to run effectively on them, so naturally the team with the lead is going to run the ball a lot more to try and eat up the clock. Not saying their pass defense is horrible, but that stat can be very misleading.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 22, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

you’d run the ball on 2nd and short with 3 minutes left in a game… and a 4 point lead? you are out of your mind kid ;)

by Evan Skev on Sep 22, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

“naturally the team with the lead is going to run the ball a lot more to try to eat up the clock”

AV23 meet Cam The Unatural Cameron

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

from ravens site

"I’m not as good as I was," Foxworth said. "[We] have all these great players depending on you to step up and play the way they know you’re capable of. To not be able to do it, it’s frustrating."

by Raven_all_day on Sep 22, 2011 7:07 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Coaches would be fools to continue to play him after fox voiced this himself

by Raven_all_day on Sep 22, 2011 7:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He’s actually been like this all offseason as well. Things about his knee not feeling quite right, etc. He doesnt sound too sure of his abilities and place on the team, which is worrisome.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Regarding Fox....

What he said about his playing ability at this time worries me too. I guess, at least he’s honest enough to know when to take himself out as to not hinder the team. I wish though that his confidence was up a little bit, we need every CB that can stand on their own feet at this point. What I can’t get over is how he came into camp feeling like this….it doesn’t seem like he took the time to rehab in the offseason like he should have. Of course he was an integral part of brining back football during the lockout, and I appreciate that as much as the next fan, but I wish that his priority had been his rehab and the team, and it just doesn’t seem like he took the necessary steps to be ready for this season either in a starting role or as a backup.

"Don't throw it, don't throw it, don't throw it. I know y'all going to throw it, they going to throw it anyway. I wouldn't throw it. Don't do it." - Ed Reed

by WestminsterRaven on Sep 22, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its possible that Foxworth did rehab properly like he should but the pain just was still there.

If im not mistaken Webb and Washington went through the same thing but sometimes people just take longer than expected to heal fully from a ACL tear but I think if Foxworth gets a break to rest than he should be better especailly after the bye week

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 22, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

We don’t have the ability to have Foxworth rest any time. If he isnt ready to go while everyone else is out, then it seriously hurts our secondary.

I hate to do this, but I totally told everyone so during the offseason. I said that CB is a weak point on this team and our depth isn’t great either and I got yelled at. Now, we are sitting in a spot where we are hoping a 3rd stringer is going to fill in well for us when our first stringers could barely get the job done.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

We don’t have the ability to have Foxworth rest any time

I think the ravens have the ability to let foxworth rest because its doesnt make sense to let him play now while he’s still having pain which is effecting his confidence.

I hate to do this, but I totally told everyone so during the offseason. I said that CB is a weak point on this team

I dont think its really that serious because Carr is coming back and he said so him self that he expects to play this sunday; if that is true then the ravens have Webb, Williams, Carr,Brown, Gorrer as the healthy cornerbacks and I dont think that is bad secondary.

The ravens should just rest foxworth and after the bye week just like Jimmy Smith he should be good to go.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 22, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who starts in his place Jazz. He was already 4th or 5th on the depth chart. If you are starting your 4th or 5th guy, that is a HUGE problem man. Especially when the person behind him is a rookie taken later in the draft and wasn’t definite to make the team. Thats not good if you have to rely on a guy like that for a few weeks during the middle of the season and into 2 games that could present problems for our secondary if they were fully healthy

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well the ravens do have ruki who can play in the cornerback postion and I remember them saying that Zibby can play in the dime so there go your 4th and 5th cornerback right there.

that is a HUGE problem man. Especially when the person behind him is a rookie taken later in the draft and wasn’t definite to make the team

I think you just need trust in the ravens organization I mean this is the same team that went in the play offs with Frank Walker as the starter and beat the patriots. If the ravens go with Chykie Brown as the fouth cornerback than Im fine with that besides it was said brown was a cornerback the ravens really liked and he could impress in the rams game.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 22, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

We know that we can do better though. Knowing that 1 injury could have put us down to a guy that we really didn’t want on the field for long periods of time. I think the Ravens Organization was hoping things would work out and they are going to ride out the injuries, but it still sucks knowing that easy games are now going to be difficult because a guy like Foxworth is going to be on the field getting beat like a donkey all game.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

gettem mstevens. our DB’s suck as a group. they should just work on their pursuit and tackle skills because they sure won’t be winning balls in the air. sorry 80’s Redskins but we have real Smurfs.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not going to say our guys suck, but they are a weakness regardless of how much everyone else thinks they are a strength. And now we are at the bottom of our barrel in terms of healthy guys. I had issues with our starting CBs and knew they would get beat from time to time, much less the 4th and 5th guy seeing every snap. We play STL, NYJ and HOU in the next 3 weeks… that really isnt a good sign unless we can get our guys healthy and prepared properly.

Just like in this last game. Our guys are physical enough, but they are getting beat by High school stomping/slowing and then going deep. You don’t think those other teams aren’t going to give that a try and they actually have WRs that can beat us deep and the arm strength to do it easily.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not really fair to judge them though when there’s injuries like we have. If any team loses two of their top three CB’s they would be in trouble as well. Nobody could have predicted injuries, so it’s easy to use hindsight when saying I knew we should have done this or that. I don’t think we can accurately judge them as a whole til they are actually a whole. As of right now yes we are not in a good position, but we are getting them back eventually and then we can get a fair assessment of where we are at as a group.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 23, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

My point isn’t necessarily that I was right and others were wrong per se. But that 1 injury to a starter immediately puts a guy like Foxworth into play for the whole game. On top of that, our starters were weak to begin with.

Cary Williams deserved the spot based on everyone else, but he really should be a second stringer or a #2 guy, definitely not the #1 guy. Having a rookie start (regardless of his injury now) is never a good sign either, it means that the people behind him are significantly worse and right now they are starting.

It was a weak unit to begin with, with very little good depth and everyone jumped on me for saying that before. Now both portions have shown to be true and we are sitting in a position to possibly get beat by the Rams, Jets and Houston because we couldn’t stop mediocre WRs from destroying us last week. No offense to Britt, but he shouldn’t have had half those yards and to have Washington at 99 is sad. Our CBs got destroyed in a game that we should have dominated on defense.

Regardless of how much has been said by the Ravens, seeing them cycle in any and all CBs we had during that game is not good. It was pure panic mode by the coaching staff to get someone in there that could stop someone.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Foxworth didn’t come in because injury to one guy there were injuries to two guys which like I said no team is prepared for that. Also I know Jimmy is a rookie, but he showed enough that he can definitely play. He won’t be elite yet, but should be solid and Britt is one of the better young WR’s in the league. Not saying we should have let him do all that to us, but give him some credit. He can definitely play and was a 1st rounder for a reason.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 23, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

What other guy is injured? I know Jimmy is hurt, but who else is hurt?

Britt isnt a speedster though and he definitely shouldn’t have had that many yards on us. Washington shouldn’t have had 99 yards on us either. I’ll say that game is going to be the highest yardage game for both those WRs this year

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carr is also hurt and he was our most consistent CB last year. Britt isn’t a speedster but he’s huge. That’s not an easy matchup for us and those type of guys have always given us problems. I believe that was a big part in drafting Jimmy was to match up with guys like those.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 23, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is also a second stringer as well. Our starters are Williams and Smith. Carr wouldn’t have fared any better against Washington or Britt based on what I saw from every other CB we had out there.

I think if we can get everyone healthy, we’ll be manageable. But to rely on having every guy at 100%, you just can’t do that in the NFL and we need to in order to have a good shot at stopping teams like Houston, Pitt, NE, GB, ATL, PHI, etc. In a pass first league, to have no clear cut #1 is an issue and then to have no decent depth behind your starters is another issue.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jimmy could have matched up better against Britt and yes I do think Carr would match up better against Washington than Webb or Foxworth. I know that Jimmy is a rookie and will make mistakes, but there are not many CB’s in this league as physically gifted as he is and while he’s not going to be a lockdown CB yet, he should be very good. We have as many quality CB’s as about any team in the league other than a few. Offenses are too good now a days to consistently shut down the power house offenses. Anybody will struggle against those teams and no team in this league including the eagles has the depth to matchup with GB or Pats WR’s. It seems like your looking for a lockdown CB, but you can count on one hand how many of those are out there. We do have questions right now, but they weren’t questions that we could have saw coming. Nobody can predict injuries and I’m just saying it’s a little too early to slam them when they aren’t healthy and we are only in week two.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 23, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not looking for a lockdown CB at all really. I’m looking for 2 guys that are clear cut starters.
•Williams… not a #1, but more of a really good nickel
•Foxworth… tried that and nope, should have been cut
•Carr… can be a starter, but he’ far too inconsistent
•Smith… we are hoping he is our guy, but we haven’t seen anything yet
•Webb… has the speed, but can’t get the mental part down. More of a dime guy
•Brown… if we haven’t seen enough of jimmy yet, we certainly haven’t seen anything from Brown yet.

I expect top tier WRs to get good yards against us, but Britt isn’t a top tier guy. He’s big, but slow. The fact he was running circles around our guys and catching in front and behind them means our guys were outmatched by far.

Washington nearly had 100 yards on us and most people wouldnt be able to tell you his first name without looking it up. On most teams, he would be a #3 WR.

Then you have Hasslebeck as a QB. While he’s a veteran, he doesnt have a cannon for an arm and he can’t bomb it down the field. Yet, he was completing 20+ yards on a regular basis while having his WRs slow down to wait for the ball to get there. That isnt just 1 step, thats 3,4,5 steps on our guys.

Then you have guys like Williams. He’s a physical CB that likes to play up close. So what do the Titans do? Stomp their feet on routes and then burn him deep. Then in the 3rd and 4th quarters, do the complete opposite and beat him underneath. That is rookie level stuff right there and you know that STL has watched that and plans on using those moves all game long on us.

We’ll continue to beat the mediocre teams like STL. Its just what we do and that’s fine. But against teams we should still beat like NYJ and HOU, we’ll struggle and we’ll give up that long ball in the 4th quarter that kills us. Just like it did last season when everyone was high on our CBs.

I hope Jimmy does well for us, but at this point he would be a saving grace to that secondary if he plays decently. We haven’t seen anything from him yet to know if he’ll play to that level this year and that just sucks to know it all depends on a rookie that is currently hurt with an injury that doesn’t heal quickly.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carr… can be a starter, but he’ far too inconsistent

If you talk to most people they will tell you he was our most consistent guy last year. There was even a breakdown of all the AFC north guys over at btsc and I believe Carr ranked #1 or 2. He will be fine and he’s at his best in the slot where he will be playing. You honestly must not have watched Britt much though because you are selling him real short. He may not be a speedster, but he’s huge and has everything else needed. Anybody will tell you he is one of the up and coming WR’s in this league. Like I said he was a 1st rounder for a reason. He has some real talent and how many teams do you truly believe have a way better secondary than we do when healthy? Most the teams that have the clear cut solid #1 guy you talk about usually have horrible CB’s after him other than a few teams. It’s just a little too early to start overreacting because of one bad game where we were missing 2 of our top 3 or arguably our top 2 CB’s.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 24, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you talk to most people they will tell you he was our most consistent guy last year.

But last year was last year. Just like we saw with Webb, being good in 1 season for CBs doesn’t translate to being good every season.

He’s struggled this season so far in camps and preseason. The fact that he ranks high in the AFCN is kind of a joke really. We as a division aren’t really known for shutdown corner play right now. Pitt has a notable suspect secondary and so do we… I’m not even going to count the bungles and browies. Just by process of elimination, any of us could be in the top 5 of that list :)

I’ll give you that most teams with clear cut #1s have mediocre players behind that. My point is that our whole secondary is either mediocre or are rookies. None of them are clear cut starters on any team and in most cases are nickel and dime package players/depth.

It is early in the season to tell, but we didnt change anything aside from losing a starter over the offseason and adding 1 rookie. Give that I think our secondary was suspect last year, and we lost a piece of that, I think we got worse in that position. Given that that position lost us games last year and we got worse, I have my thought process and point.

I’ll be the first to come back and say “I’m wrong” if the secondary improves dramatically and we don’t get beat like we did by Tenn again this season. I jut don’t see that happening this year.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 24, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have two very good CB’s in our division in Joe Haden and Ike Taylor and I believe Carr graded higher than Taylor. Also comparing webb to Carr is different because Webb was coming off an ACL and Carr has been battling the hamstring for a lot of camp so of course he’s not going to look great. Also last year in yards our secondary looked bad, but we finished around 10 in just about every relevant passing statistic. Even if nobody steps up I would rather have 5 average guys then 1 really good CB and the rest are complete garbage. We saw how that works with Pitt and it don’t work.Teams spread you out a lot more so it does you no good having having 1 really good CB and the rest suck because they will just spread you out and pick on the other guys. Pretty much every team minus a few are in no better situation than us so I don’t see how you can say we are completely screwed, but the other teams are fine.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 24, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see where you are coming from. I still stick by my assesment and thoughts of having 1 really good corner and then 1 or 2 mediocre guys and then the rest can suck. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

having 1 really good CB and the rest suck because they will just spread you out and pick on the other guys

Though by spreading you out, you can go into press coverage and it eliminates a lot of how the Oline can block you on blitzes. You now have the ability to get far more sacks and disrupt their offense.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is early in the season to tell,

stick by that statement by saying its too early in the season to tell the secondary will be weak.I notice you mention Ladarius Webb and yes he has struggled but it aint over yet its no telling how webb will turn out for the rest of the season.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m going to be curious how it plays out for the rest of the season Jazz. I really don’t think getting anyone back is going to immediately fix everything. I think the group will still struggle and keep games a lot closer than they should be and maybe lose us some games we normally would have won.

But you are right, lets stick it out and see how it goes. Maybe someone is a beast and it finally clicks for them.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Our starters are Williams and Smith

Smith was not a starter before he got injured Webb was starting over him . If you think Smith will eventually be a starter than that fines but he never announce as the starter if anything he probably would had been used in a rotation like the ravens did last year and if he would progressed to the point he worth starting then he would.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 23, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carr wouldn’t have fared any better against Washington or Britt based on what I saw from every other CB we had out there

I think Carr would had done a better job and i just feel like he is a good cornerback not only that but carr is said to be one of the smartest cornerbacks in the secondary which is helpful when it comes to communication among other players in the secondary.

I think if we can get everyone healthy, we’ll be manageable. But to rely on having every guy at 100%, you just can’t do that in the NFL

I feel like once this secondary gets healthy they will be more than manageable. I feel like all our cornerbacks are very good and I know they had some problems in the titans game but this should help them grow and learn from their mistakes because it wasn’t like they got out muscled it was more of bad teachnique

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 23, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz, we added a rookie to a secondary that was mediocre for most of last year and lost games. I know someone will point out that they did fairly well in terms of points scored, but I’ve raised my issues against that (a run from the 1 counts as a score against rush defense regardless of the 99 years through the air it took to get there).

So we’ve added a rookie, and lost a consistent starter over the offseason. That doesn’t really seem to match up for me this year. Jimmy may be really good in the future and hell he may be good now. But Williams is not a starting CB, hes a 2nd stringer along with the rest of our guys. We’re trying to get by on 2nd string talent that is undersized and not so fast either.

Webb should have been the best matchup on Washington because of the speed factor. Yet he got burned pretty regularly. Williams and Carr should have been able to handle Britt with safety help, yet they got beat all day long with stutter step moves you see in high school. Its not even about being physical, its about not making sorry ass mistakes like that and getting beat deep. Its about not getting pushed into the endzone and then being out of position when the guy stops and catches an easy pass for a TD. That is all rookie level stuff that both should have been addressed by the coaching staff earlier and should be common sense to NFL CBs. If they couldnt handle that type of stuff, I hate to see what players like Andre Johnson, and Santonio Holmes are going to do to us.

Like I said, I think our secondary if 100% healthy, is… OK, not great, but we can work with that and a good pass rush. We aren’t 100% healthy, and its a little odd to think we will be at any point in the season. So we sit in the same position we were in last year…. the defense is going to kill us if we can’t score 30 points on a team and hold on to the ball for 75% of the game.

Again, while I will say I told you so, that isn’t my point. My point lies in the fact that everyone was so quick to jump on me about criticizing the secondary and right now it is the weakest unit on our team by a long shot and can lose us games all by itself.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Williams and Carr should have been able to handle Britt with safety help, yet they got beat all day long with stutter step moves you see in high school

Carr never even played.

Again, while I will say I told you so, that isn’t my point.

Don’t you think it’s a litle early for I told you so’s? We are heading into week 3 and other than the injuries I didn’t hear any complaints about the secondary last week. Like I said previously. No team is prepared to lose their top 2 CB’s, so I don’t know how you expect us to magically just over come that. It’s just something you have to work through, but nobody can predict that stuff.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 24, 2011 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz, my point is that our top 2 CBs arent starters by any means.

And we didn’t lose our top 2 guys. By the depth chart, we lost our #2 and #3 guys. Losing even 1 of them means that Foxworth would see the field and I think we all know he would have been picked on by any QB and none of us really want to see him out there given his injury status and attitude about it so far.

So again, my point is that our starters are really #2s and #3s on most teams. Then behind that, we have a bunch of undersized guys that would be detrimental in dime packages. We should have done more to that position and cutting Foxworth/picking up someone else was one of those things.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 24, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz, my point is that our top 2 CBs arent starters by any means

I disagree with that esspecially on Cary Williams. gives the guys a break the secondary had one bad game its over now and if any thing this should be part a growing experience esspecially for Williams.

We should have done more to that position and cutting Foxworth/picking up someone else was one of those things

Tell me who was out their? I know the ravens weren’t willing to spend no 30 million on one the top cornerbacks that wouldnt make since financially since Ngata deal wasnt done. So tell me who would had been better? I guess the ravens could had went after a veteran like Will Allen but he is injury prone

Tell me who would you had signed better.

Alot of people want to see Foxworth gone but just like Josh Wilson he played very good later on in the season and if you dont believe me just check out his 2009 season and prove me wrong.

Ozzie Newsome is no fortune teller he can’t predict what would happen in the future its no way he could had thought Chris Carr, Jimmy Smith, Dominque Foxworth(issue with his knee) would had happened.

I understand you have your opinion but i never beleive in questioning something that isnt finish. The secondary status is not the finish product and i believe it will get better over time and if you dont believe that well it is what it is.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tell me who was out their?

There were a ton of guys out there that were healthy and better CBs during the offseason. We would have had the money if we cut Foxworth (I believe $8.5mil in salary this year alone, with a $4 mil cap hit if we cut him, freeing up $4.5mil this year)

gives the guys a break the secondary had one bad game

No, I;m going back to last year as well. Our secondary hasn’t changed a lot and if anything, has gotten worse with the exception of Jimmy Smith being added (who we know absolutely nothing about yet). So given our struggles last year mixed with our struggles against a vet QB with average WRs, it leads me to believe that we will struggle even more against a better offense (ie: Philly, Houston, GB, NE, etc).

My thoughts are, if Hasslebeck almost ran up 400 yards on us, what do we expect a much better QB with a much better arm to do to us? Now, who will be in the playoffs? Probably teams like NE, HOU, SD…. all good offenses. If we couldn’t stop a mediocre offense from passing circles around us, we don’t stand a chance against any of those guys during the playoffs.

Its nothing personal by any means. Just how I came to my conclusion n where our secondary stands. If you look at it like that, then it makes sense and should worry most fans. I’m sure it worries the team as well.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just im a person that likes to stay postive and I beleive in change. Its no telling how this secondary will turn out and I beleive they have the ability to be dominate if a few get healthy and its no telling how the rookies will turn out.

If the ravens could win a play off game with frank walker, corey ivy and etc in the secondary then i think they can do much better with the guys they have now but I could be wrong

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 25, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand you believe in change and want to stay positive. I want to let you know that I’m not negative about the team, but I’m not going to blindly follow everything they do with utter amazement and get shot down again this year like in years past. I look at the situation, look at past performances and take an educated guess on how something will turn out, nothing more nothing less.

Given the past performances from these players, the addition and subtraction of players through the offseason, and where offenses are headed in the NFL…. I think our secondary is a huge weakness unless we have a perfect game in terms of rushing the passer. It showed both today and in the other 2 games. If we can get to the QB on every play, we’ll have a great game. If we can’t get in his face 75% of the time, we’ll get torched bad. Now I know its important for all teams to have a good pass rush, I think its do or die for us on that. I don’t think we have anyone back there that can make up the difference if a play doesn’t go perfect for us and that is going to happen against the top tier teams in the playoffs.

So don’t take me as negative, but as a realist that looks at factual information and patterns of performance to criticize.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 26, 2011 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

But his lack of confidence and his “honesty” is a huge hindrance in sports. Just like in boxing, if you wince when I hit you in a spot, I know to keep hitting that spot as often as possible. If Fox keeps opening his mouth, he’s going to get picked on and he isn’t ready for any extra attention.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 22, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah thats why I think he should get the extra rest so he can atleast rehab alittle more and build his confidence up.

I believe the coaches will let him rest to allow him to get back to him self and give him time to think to build him self back up

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 22, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

he must be comparing himself to when he was in college because he hasn’t been anything but 2nd string in the NFL. 7 mil for a kicker who doesn’t kick.

by raven on Sep 22, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly they should have just put Fox on the pup. Everytime he has been on the field he has been targeted. This is our number one guy getting burned as if he was a undrafted rookie. I hope Harbaugh has this guy in shorts and hoodie these next couple games.

by Raven_all_day on Sep 23, 2011 12:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

this what i found out about torrey smith doing the titans games
Smith doesn’t seem to be on Joe Flacco‘s radar. Smith was open several times down the seam and down the sideline vs. the Titan’s Cover 2 defense, but Flacco looked elsewhere

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/09/22/rookie-richter-which-wrs-are-catching-on/?campaign=Twitter_blogs

this clearly verifies that Flacco needs to get better with his awareness of the field because if Smith was open several times I dont care if he said to have bad hands throw the ball to him and see what happens. lee evans said so him self the most improve rookie wideout so far is torrey and if thats the case I think that means he is ready

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 23, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

… I dont care if he said to have bad hands throw the ball to him and see what happens.

I guess that’s the difference between you and Flacco. Joe knows he has veterans that are good for clutch drops and not making plays on passes thrown to receivers that aren’t wide open; why put his professional performance in the adorably tiny hands of a rookie who’s proven in game situations that he can’t catch? The only objective statement I found from that analysis was that Smith has one target and zero catches. I can’t say that I’m surprised by that stat at all.

this clearly verifies that Flacco needs to get better with his awareness of the field …

There’s a limited amount of time Flacco is going to have to go through his progressions when a three or four man rush is breathing down his neck every snap. You can’t necessarily blame that on Smith, but you also can’t blame it on Flacco when he’s already running for his life and extending plays only to have two receivers unable to get open against seven or eight defenders playing the pass.

I don’t really understand why you’re still so caught up on this Torrey Smith thing. Everybody that knows the game realizes that receivers tend to take a couple seasons to acclimate to the game, and Smith was less pro-ready than other high-round draft picks. It’s not an insult to say that he’s a project with limited expectations this year. The signing of Lee Evans should be all the clear verification you need that the Ravens expect him to be a late bloomer.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

adorably tiny hands

You have a hand fetish Amp? I mean thats cool and all, but adorable?

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I set myself up for that one.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 24, 2011 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, he does have tiny hands. I really laughed when I read adorable though.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 24, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

who’s proven in game situations that he can’t catch?

Torrey Smith didnt leave the preseason game with zero receptions so the statement that he can’t catch is not fully true but if you going to say he can’t catch consistently then that would be a better statement but at the same time it was a preseason game.

I guess that’s the difference between you and Flacco. Joe knows he has veterans that are good for clutch drops and not making plays on passes thrown to receivers that aren’t wide open; why put his professional performance in the adorably tiny hands of a rookie who’s proven in game situations that he can’t catch

Joe Flacco did the same thing with Boldin last year. I saw plenty of times where Boldin was open but for some reason Flacco was only stuck on one side of the field only and Boldin even waved his hands to get his attention but Flacco decides to stay focus on one side. I guess Boldin must of had bad hands to or maybe its just Flacco not good consistently of scanning the field.

I don’t really understand why you’re still so caught up on this Torrey Smith thing. Everybody that knows the game realizes that receivers tend to take a couple seasons to acclimate to the game

Its not about Torrey what Im geting at is the problem of Joe Flacco not scanning the field consistently so he can atleast get the ball out faster. I know Flacco at times had pressure in his face but their was time where I felt like he had time to throw the ball but because of his inconsistent effort to scan the whole field it cost for him to hold the ball longer and it allows the opposing defenses to get him when they wasn’t suppose to.

It’s not an insult to say that he’s a project with limited expectations this year

Amp thats just you talking not Flacco, not the coaches, and not the whole ravens organization. If the ravens/coaches felt like Smith was a project than he wouldn’t be seeing the time on the field like he has. Smith has been in week 1 and Week two games so far and I highly doubt the ravens believe he is project because other rookies like Laquan Williams and Tandon Doss have both outsplayed him in the preseason games but Smith is still higher then them on the depth chart.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 23, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Jazz,

How many targets did Smith have during the preseason versus how many catches he had? I’d be willing to bet its around 25% and I’d be willing to bet he has roughly 1-2 drops in each preseason game (I honestly can’t recall specifics right now). For a 2nd round guy that is supposed to be in the mix during each game, that is unacceptable! That right there means he has bad hands.

I think you are taking it a bit far by saying

so the statement that he can’t catch is not fully true
. All everyone means is that he can’t catch by NFL standards. If he litterally couldnt catch, I seriously doubt he would have made it into college, much less the NFL. He has bad hands and that isn’t on Flacco by any means if he doesn’t feel comfortable throwing to him.

WRs will always wave their hands and arms around like they are open, but how often do you think that they can’t see the safety behind them waiting for that ball? I’d put my trust in Flacco to see who is open and who is just getting baited. Even aside from that, Flacco has progressions to go through (ie: deep, middle short,…. left, middle, right) and if he doesn’t have a full 3 seconds, he might not see someone. Its not as easy as playing Madden and that’s something a lot of fans need to understand when it comes to Flacco’s performance.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not as easy as playing Madden and that’s something a lot of fans need to understand when it comes to Flacco’s performance.

I couldn’t agree more. It seems like a lot of the complaints come from fans who are ignorant (willful or otherwise) about the nature of the complex machine that is an NFL offense. Every incomplete pass is proof that Flacco is inaccurate. Every interception is proof that Flacco makes bad decisions. Every sack is proof that Flacco holds on to the ball too long. Every dump off to Rice is proof that Flacco needs a security blanket. Every throw out of bounds is proof that Flacco only targets receivers that are wide open. Never mind the multitudinous mitigating factors that help to paint a complete picture of what happened on any given play. I’ve always hated that the media is more than happy to pile undeserved blame and praise on the quarterback position as a whole; it’s dawning on me now that the media only does that because it’s what the huddled masses want to read.

It’s easier to blame or cheer the quarterback than it is to learn how the game works.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not about Torrey what Im geting at is the problem of Joe Flacco not scanning the field consistently so he can atleast get the ball out faster.

There are a lot of mitigating factors to consider when talking about Flacco scanning the field up to your standards. Any given play could be designed to go to a specific receiver. The plethora of outs and comebacks to Mason last year were all timing patterns designed to get Mason the ball; even if Boldin was wide open and waving his arms, the play just wasn’t designed to go to him. The upside of those plays is that they are high percentage calls that play to the strengths of both Flacco and Mason. The downside is that the moderate gain from those plays comes at the expense of ignoring another receiver that might have broken free and would otherwise give the offense a chance at a greater gain. Mason is just an example, too; we haven’t gotten rid of plays like that just because we dumped Mason. The truth is that a receiver just isn’t going to be part of every play, no matter how open he gets.

Something else to consider is that there is a finite amount of time in which Flacco can actually scan the field before the play ends. If he’s under constant pressure (as was the case last year and last weekend), there’s only so much field that can be scanned before time runs out. Even as good as Flacco looked while scrambling against the Titans, many of our fellow fans are going to have to get used to the idea that he’s not Roethlisberger or Vick (and also that quarterback rotations are a terrible, terrible idea). It doesn’t help much to have Smith free on a nine route if Flacco can’t see him through an approaching pass rusher’s helmet. It’s also worth noting that even the best quarterbacks in the league can be — and have been — put off their game by incessant pressure, which leads into my next point.

The final major factor to consider is that, much like every other quarterback in the league, Flacco isn’t perfect. Every quarterback leaves plays on the field. Cherry picking a couple of instances in which Flacco didn’t target an open receiver doesn’t mean that the same exact thing couldn’t be done for any other quarterback in the league. This goes to the unrealistic expectations that many fans seem to have for Flacco, wherein every mistake he (or the offense as a whole) makes is taken as evidence that Flacco has some underlying trend of weakness, or he doesn’t have “it,” or he’s “not scanning the field consistently.”

I guess Boldin must of had bad hands …

It’s worth noting that Boldin led the team in receptions last year.

If the ravens/coaches felt like Smith was a project than he wouldn’t be seeing the time on the field like he has.

Torrey Smith happens to be at the top of a depth chart of three rookie wide receivers (Smith is coincidentally the highest draft pick), and leads them all with one target and zero receptions. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement from the coaches, no matter how hard you try to read between the lines.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The plethora of outs and comebacks to Mason last year were all timing patterns designed to get Mason the ball; even if Boldin was wide open and waving his arms

That is possible but overall you or I dont know if thats true. In the atlanta falcons game I remember T,J Housmanzadeh was lined up in the outside and Boldin was lined up in the slot when it came time for Flacco to throw the ball Bolidn was open first and Housmanzadeh was double covered. I guess the play was designed to go to Housmanzadeh even when he was double covered which could result in a interceptions and thats what end result came to.

I just can’t accept the idea that Flacco is siting their saying Ok well Boldin/Evan isn’t open well gosh I guess I have to wait and ignored the other guys because this ball got Boldin/Evan name right on it oh gosh somebody coming crap I just got sacked.( in Joe Flacco voice)

I feel like Flacco has to get better with his awareness of the field and If Im being ignorant because I want to see something better from my quarterback because I know he can do better than so be it.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 23, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is possible but overall you or I dont know if thats true.

Yeah, I kind of do. On plays like that, Flacco has to get rid of the ball before Mason (or whoever is running those plays for us now) makes his break. There tends to be a very tight window of opportunity in which the play has to be made. Flacco can’t wait and see how the route turns out, then decide to go elsewhere if the corner plays the route tightly. Flacco has to either commit to the route or go elsewhere. If he commits, there may not have been time to even look at anybody else.

In the atlanta falcons game I remember T,J Housmanzadeh was lined up in the outside and Boldin was lined up in the slot when it came time for Flacco to throw the ball Bolidn was open first and Housmanzadeh was double covered. I guess the play was designed to go to Housmanzadeh even when he was double covered which could result in a interceptions and thats what end result came to.

That was a poor throw, but Boldin never even looked back for the ball. Watch the replay on NFL.com; even when he gets wide open, Boldin never looks back. I have to assume he never expected to be more than a decoy. I don’t pretend to know what play was called, but I have no reason to think that Boldin was an option for Flacco on that pass.

I just can’t accept the idea that Flacco is siting their saying Ok well Boldin/Evan isn’t open well gosh I guess I have to wait and ignored the other guys because this ball got Boldin/Evan name right on it oh gosh somebody coming crap I just got sacked.( in Joe Flacco voice)

I think you’re leaning a little too heavily on the point I made about timing patterns. They’re obviously not all we do. Flacco’s obviously not sitting there every play ignoring every target but one, and it’s disingenuous to portray the situation as such. You’re still ignoring that practically every game last year and half of our games so far this year have been characterized by extremely poor pass protection. You didn’t mention any of this after the Pittsburgh game, during which Flacco typically had ample time to go through multiple reads.

I feel like Flacco has to get better with his awareness of the field and If Im being ignorant because I want to see something better from my quarterback because I know he can do better than so be it.

My point is that there’s a complexity to this issue that you’re ignoring. Nothing happens in a vacuum on the football field. Flacco has shown the ability to do everything that he’s been criticized for not doing; however, as soon as the offense breaks down for whatever reason, it’s all on Flacco and people can’t be bothered to look more closely at the situation.

Flacco looked great in week one and there were zero complaints about him reading the field. After week two, there are people complaining that he all of a sudden can’t read the field now. Is it more likely that Flacco forgot how to play quarterback on Sunday or that some underlying deficiency encompassing the entire offensive scheme (several of which have been documented here) resulted in these accusations?

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you earned $.01 per word for this…

by Evan Skev on Sep 23, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like that! Could we negotiate for $.05 per word?

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t finish your own company website and you wanna joke around over here?

Come on dude… Get to work

by Evan Skev on Sep 24, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Evan, I warned you against that before. You want to keep pressing it and ruining my good name and my company brand, I have a really big issue with that. If I think that I’ll lose money because of your libel, I’ll take proper actions with that.

On top of that, you have no idea what my website url even is. Nor do you know what my company names are. So please don’t use libelous language when talking about me, my company, my brand or how I make my money and support my family. I don’t come on here talking about how you have herpes and taking away from your Pitt male clientele, so I ask that you give me the same respect.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Flacco has shown the ability to do everything that he’s been criticized for not doing; however, as soon as the offense breaks down for whatever reason, it’s all on Flacco and people can’t be bothered to look more closely at the situation.

Flacco looked great in week one and there were zero complaints about him reading the field. After week two, there are people complaining that he all of a sudden can’t read the field now

I know Flacco looked great in week one but at this point it really doesn’t matter what flacco did in week one because that performance definately didnt translate into the week 2 game. Flacco has shown the ability to do everything he’s been critized about but I just want to see more consistency its not like Im calling him a bad quarterback.

In the last game the excuse for the offense was nobody was open but it was clear evidence that said that wasn’t true. The source I provided said torrey was open several times but Flacco never looked his way and ravens fans wasnt to give flacco a excuse by saying oh you know flacco knows you has bad hands so I dont blame him; I just feel like thats nonsense right now and Flacco going to have to get used to Smith because thats who’s going to be most likely starting next to Boldin in the rams game

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

because that performance definately didnt translate into the week 2 game

The point we are trying to make Jazz, is that it isn’t necessarily Flacco’s fault why he didn’t look good. The offense is a complex machine that requires a few different things to go well before the QB can look good.

1. Run game
2. WRs getting separation
3. Oline protection

None of those things happened, so how do you expect Flacco to rise above that and have a good game?

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 24, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The offense is a complex machine that requires a few different things to go well before the QB can look good.

Thank you.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 24, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are quite welcome good sir. Jazz is trying to make a good argument and I feel where he is coming from, but Torrey just isn’t ready yet and he may never be ready. Doss and Williams would be in front of him if not for the draft position and potential upside that Torrey has. If it finally clicks for him, he could be a beast. With Doss and Williams, you kind of know what you got, but we could use them playing right now.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 24, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

your not being ignorant at all. flacco has thrown completiond to only 2 WR all year. 2. he has tunnel vision.

by raven on Sep 23, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

flacco has thrown completiond to only 2 WR all year. 2. he has tunnel vision.

What other receivers should Flacco be throwing to? Doss has yet to be activated. Williams has played in one offensive play. The biggest story on Smith is that the game’s too fast for him and he’s not running his routes at full speed (the story about his tiny hands is old hat at this point). Reed has been dealing with suspension and injury. Despite this alleged tunnel vision, our tight ends have combined for eleven catches, and Rice has also been active in the passing game.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

i stopped debating with you so I can watch you all argue yourselves into circles. I have a lot more fun now.

As you were…

by Evan Skev on Sep 23, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

i stopped debating with you so I can watch you all argue yourselves into circles.

Debate requires you to propose and defend an argument; you can’t stop if you never started. Regardless, it’s too bad that you stopped doing whatever it was you were doing, because I enjoyed all the computer error replies.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

State your case, back it up with facts and reasonable opinions ...
Bruce Raffel

by Ampallang on Sep 23, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

computer error replies were clever, if not original

watching you twist yourself into a tautological mess is entertaining

by Evan Skev on Sep 23, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Alpha Error:

Monkeys behind the keyboard have gone for a smoke break. Please wait 5 minutes and refresh your browser. If that doesn’t work, smacking yourself in the face will…. OK, I lied, but it would be funny to know you did that."

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dig what you are saying Amp. Flacco doesn’t have a huge variety in who he can throw to. Aside from Boldin and Evans, I really haven’t seen us throw any other WRs out there. Torrey hasn’t seen much of the field anyway. I guess he could try and hit him on the sidelines, but chances are he would have run the wrong route on the bench or dropped the ball there as well.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 23, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess he could try and hit him on the sidelines, but chances are he would have run the wrong route on the bench or dropped the ball there as well.

Torrey only dropped two balls in one preseason game only and now every body wants to give him the bad hands tag jeez give the guy a break .

Torrey hasn’t seen much of the field anyway
In the regular season opener against Pittsburgh, Smith got playing time and had a couple of knock-down blocks on running plays. Last week against Tennessee, he got open a couple of times but quarterback Joe Flacco threw elsewhere.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bs-sp-preston-0923-20110922,0,6986818.column

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That just said a couple of times where you have been using the word several. That also isn’t enough evidence to say Flacco was overlooking him. What if on that play there was somebody else open who Flacco hit or other things like that. That article really doesn’t back up any of your argument.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 24, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

That also isn’t enough evidence to say Flacco was overlooking him.

I saw more then once Torrey Smith was on the field along with some one else which was on the left side and when it was time for Joe Flacco to take action he only look on the right side waiting waiting and wating then eventally pressure got in his face then he had to throw the ball away or get sacked .

I say this again I felt like Joe Flacco could have played better and I dont care if you/others felt like the O-line play was poor, run game was poor and etc. I still feel like Flacco could had performed better is that wrong for me to feel that way and if so then it is what it is . I beleive Ozzie Newsome said so him self and this was when the oline/run was bad that Joe Flacco can be inconsistent at times and he wants him to get better.

I stand by my statement and the idea that no wideout was open most be false because there has been more than one source verifying that it was not true. If you dont believe the sources and if you was at the game then yourself then you can prove the sources wrong.

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

You missed some pretty important points in that article Jazz..

That’s why there are times when it appears he is jogging on the field.
In the third preseason game against Washington, Smith dropped two passes

I’ve also looked around to see if I can’t find out how many drops Torrey actually has right now, but no one counts that stat it seems. However, here are some more quotes about him….

Now a situational deep threat, the second-round rookie’s projected receptions will tumble after a nightmarish preseason opener in which Smith ran the wrong routes and just didn’t know the plays.
Smith doesn’t play physical, runs high and his hands are suspect.

His hands are horrible at this point and Joe has no confidence in him to make a play. Regardless of if he can get open or not (he hasn’t shown that so far). We’ll see this week, with more playing time and more chances, how he fares. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he comes out of the STL game with maybe 1 or 2 catches for under 50 yards playing as the #2.

None of this is new to anyone that did any research on Smith as it was stated numerous times during the scouting combine and draft. He’ll take some time to get used to the speed of the game and to learn how to catch with his hands instead of his body. As I’ve said before, that is something that takes time and in a lot of WRs cases, they never learn. Given how “great” we are at drafting and maturing WRs, I don’t really ever see him making a huge impact and we’ll eventually Travis Taylor him. I hope he proves me wrong though, but the odds are stacked against him right now.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 24, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

His hands are horrible at this point and Joe has no confidence in him to make a play.

 I just dont see how a wideout that only dropped two balls in one game( only one game) makes his hands horrible are you really serious with that statement because I dont understand that. I guess David Reed hands are horrible hands to because he dropped two passses as well.

Regardless of if he can get open or not (he hasn’t shown that so far).

There has been two sources one from the baltimoresun.com and NFL.com who both verified that Torrey Smith was open several times in the titans game. I honestly dont beleive the sources are lying because most likely who ever wrote it most had been at the game especailly mike preston .

. Given how "great" we are at drafting and maturing WRs, I don’t really ever see him making a huge impact and we’ll eventually Travis Taylor him

smh well I guess we will have to see because Torrey Smith is really going to disappoint you sir :)

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz once again those articles never said several times. They said a few plays or something to that effect and never gave the result of that play. You don’t know if we completed that play to somebody else who was open or what. Then regarding Torrey’s hands it’s not just that one game it’s something that was known prior to him being drafted. As I said before go watch Torrey’s tape and tell me he has great hands. A lot of the balls he caught in college he let into his body and wouldn’t go up and get it at it’s highest point. I’m not saying he won’t get it figured out or is going to be a horrible player, but he was a WR coming in who needed to work on route running and catching away from his body and those two things are crucial to being a successful WR in this league.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 24, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’s not just that one game it’s something that was known prior to him being drafted

Torrey Smith was known to have bad hands is was not a valid statement it was just said because he had catches with his body that I guess more than his hands. It the samething with Anthony Allen many thought he would have a hard time adjusting to a pro style offense because of the offense he played in while in college.

overall its just hypothesis but it doesnt make it true or false. I just feel like Smith hasnt done enough yet for any body to tag him as bad hand wideout. I’m not saying saying Smith has Derrick Mason/Jerry Rice hands but to say he has a Justin Harper/B. Edwards hands is alittle overboard for some one that only had two drops in one game only

Jazz once again those articles never said several times

                       yes it did and here it goes:

Smith was open several times down the seam and down the sideline vs. the Titan’s Cover 2 defense, but Flacco looked elsewhere

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh heres the link

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/09/22/rookie-richter-which-wrs-are-catching-on/?campaign=Twitter_blogs

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you also look at this link Jazz, look at where he is at on it and what it says about him….

Smith’s production can’t get lower.
Smith doesn’t play physical, runs high and his hands are suspect.

Those are the not good marks Jazz. He’s getting beaten out by 2 4th rounders, a 6th rounder a 5th rounder and an undrafted guy. He’s at the bottom of a fairly long list of rookie WRs and that isn’t good for a 2nd round guy we are expecting to be productive this year. None of what I saw on that article is optimistic.

Again, we will see how he does today. He’ll have the chance to be #2, see the field more and have more targets. If he can get open and catch the ball, he’ll have a great day. If he fails at either of those tasks, it spells doom for the kid this year.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is a different link then the one you provided earlier and one says several the other says couple who’s right? Also if you are going off you links the one you just provided talked about Torrey’s hands as well.

On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu

by AV23 on Sep 24, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I beleive i clearly stated before that their were more than one source

 saying Torrey Smith was open on the titans game . If the Torrey Smith was open couple or several times no matter which one was right it still mean he was open more than once.

In the article it saids Torrey Smith has suspect hands that doesn’t mean he has bad hands or good hands . Overall Torrey Smith hands are unknown but I’m not surprise the article would say that since the idea of Smith having bad hands has been following him since draft day,

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 24, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you double the sources it doesn’t double the times he was open. A couple or several still mean about the same thing…. 3 or 4 times. I cant imagine they locked down the entire field and left Torrey wide open all game, and 3 or 4 times certainly isn’t a lot given the number of offensive plays there were.

Suspect hands in the NFL means he has bad hands Jazz. As a guy that does nothing but catch balls for a living, if he drops even 25% of them, he has bad hands. So far, I’m willing to guess that percentage is much higher in camp and preseason. That label of “bad hands” isn’t something someone made up about him. It was known in college and catching the ball doesn’t get any easier when you have a guy like Flacco that likes to rocket the ball in there. Its hard to adjust when you have good hands, but that label was set in college and was why he was drafted in the second round. If it weren’t for the speed aspect, he would have went undrafted because of his hands and his route running ability.

I’m excited about the upside he has, but he can’t do the 2 things he needs to do as a WR to be successful. Again, given our track record of grooming WRs into studs (HA, not 1 yet), the odds don’t look good for Torrey to be anything more than a speedy guy that might catch a few balls a season. I hope he does get it and I hope it all clicks for him, cause if it does he’s going to be ridiculous. I’m just going by the past and what he isn’t good at and it doesn’t synch up Jazz.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

That label of "bad hands" isn’t something someone made up about him. It was known in college

all I have to say is prove that because even his college coach said torrey has better hands then every one thinks.

Jazz, bad playing translates from College. He was known to drop balls at Maryland all the time and that doesn’t just disappear when you make it to the NFL

 prove that because i having seen such source at all unless you was at the maryland college yourself watching the game then you cant say that without proper sources to back it up.

but he can’t do the 2 things he needs to do as a WR to be successful

I always hate when someone speak of another person saying they cant do. Who are you to speak on such things when we all have not seen what Torrey Smith can do. You speak as if he only going to be a bust when you don’t have no clear evidence that he will and I I find it quite ignorant for you and other ravens fans to get on the man case just for only dropping two balls in only one preseason game are you kidding me . If torrey really had bad hands in college well all I can say is he still was very impressive because his stats were very good.

Again, given our track record of grooming WRs into studs (HA, not 1 yet), the odds don’t look good for Torrey to be anything more than a speedy guy that might catch a few balls a season

 I track record also didnt look good with drafting quarterbacks but that eventually change didnt. I honestly dont see any odds agaisnt torrey he is a rookie that is still developing you speak as if he was here for 4 years already.

overall man you have your opinion and I have mines but we will see how smith turns out you could be right and I could be wrong or vice versa. This was a good debate and so far i guess we will see which person was right in the game coming up at 4 pm

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 25, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz you keep saying prove you wrong. Just type Torrey Smith draft into google and it will come up with the same thing every time. He was known to have bad hands and run poor routes.

Even today, he ran poor routes, but was just able to outrun the guy covering him because they weren’t expecting it. Once he scored his TDs and they paid him attention, they shut him down all game. Plus, its against the rams… not exactly the top team in the league by any means. Good game by Torrey though and I hope he can string a few more of these together so he isnt a 1 hit wonder.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 26, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jazz, bad playing translates from College. He was known to drop balls at Maryland all the time and that doesn’t just disappear when you make it to the NFL. Dropping balls in preseason just spreads the fact that you can’t catch.

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 25, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

uhuh and I hope you saw that game today because Torrey Smith hands definately look terrible lol

What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?-langton Hughes

yeah I agree with Jimmy and Cary shutting down the other teams WR’s, they’ll make anybody rushing the QB look good - Jaz

by jazz20 on Sep 25, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Happy to be wrong! But in all honesty, this really doesn’t change much. Lets see him put together another performance like this and have it all game long instead of just the 1st quarter. He got shut down for the rest of the game and while he looked impressive in his TD catches, it was against inferior competition too.

So just keep the optimism in check a bit. But still super happy to be wrong today!!!

by Mstevens_Design on Sep 26, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Part of Him

Being “shut down” the rest of the game may have been his suffering from cramps, and also maybe us letting up a bit. Neither of which have anything to do with the Rams defense shutting him down.

But I, and most agree, that we would like him to turn in a few more good games before we crown him.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."

For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind

by vlad755 on Sep 26, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have a lot of nerve saying Smith needs to put together omre than one quarter.

you consistently show a lack of willingness to admit when you’re wrong. you argue in circles until you’re blue in the face. you act like a child when people call you on your BS. you buddy up to anyone who agrees with you, including pitt fans… you need to put some water in your wine buddy because you’re just plain wrong here and you owe jazz an apology

by Evan Skev on Sep 26, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

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