Browns Could Use QB Like Ravens' Flacco
by Bruce Raffel on Dec 26, 2011 3:00 PM EST
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Sounds a little strange to use the words "Browns" and "Flacco" in the same sentence, but that's what Terry Pluto of The Plain Dealer did in a story on Cleveland.com. He put down his thoughts prior to the game this past weekend where the Baltimore Ravens defeated the Cleveland Browns 20-14.
Pluto listed a plethora of reasons, including Flacco's durability as well as his mastery of the Browns (7-0) in his seven previous (make it 8-0 now) meetings. He mentions how Flacco has quarterbacked the Ravens to the post season all four years that he's been in the league and notes the difficulty of doing that in the always tough AFC North.
Pluto also looks at the genius that is Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome, recalling how many Pro Bowl players are and have been on the Ravens compared to basically just one legitimate perennial one (LT Joe Thomas) on the Browns. He specifically mentions the 2006 deal where the Ravens traded up with the Browns to take Haloti Ngata while the Browns willingly too Kamerion Wimbley.
It's a good read and a fair assessment of both what Baltimore has been able to do consistently over the years and likewise, what Cleveland has repeatedly failed to accomplish in that same span. For perhaps once, it's nice to see someone from Cleveland being open-minded and posting their honest opinion of a franchise (Cleveland) with a long history whose recent struggles should not be blamed on Baltimore "taking" their team 16 years ago.
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no comments huh?
Tons of people on the other thread talking about how flacco won’t turn the corner, but nobody wants to read anything positive about the guy.
Smh
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
by jackmca on Dec 26, 2011 5:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Well Reasoned
Liked the guys thoughts, sounds a little like a Browns fan wishing he could be a Ravens fan.
A Ravens fan on the wrong side of the country!!
by Christopher Atwood on Dec 26, 2011 9:27 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Pluto writes a very good piece
but it’s easy to understand why people don’t want to hear the truth. It’s a lot easier to keep your head buried in the sand
You like Thai? Tie good. You like shirt?
This can’t be true! FLACCO IS BAD!!! LOL
by bshagagi on Dec 26, 2011 5:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Good read.
Flacco has done a lot for the Raven’s organization. He’s provided excellent stability at QB position. He’s won a hell of a lot of games, and not shown up in only a few. For his first 4 years, I’d give him a B+.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
first 4 years as a whole
i’m not sure how he doesn’t get an A. Tell me another QB whose first 4 years were this good and all resulted in playoff berths.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisburger
They didn’t make the playoffs every year, but I would say they played better than Joe in their first 4 years.
daytime commentator. night time ninja.
Tom Brady threw all of 3 passes as a rookie. Aaron Rodgers did not play until his 4th year. Try again.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
ok..I will say, Joe’s teams have been successful. So have Dirty Sanchez’s teams. That does not make them good/great QB’s. You are using team accomplishments to justify a single player being good. Of course, if it were the opposite, and the team sucked, but Flacco played awesome, your argument would undoubtedly change. People always use team accomplishments when individual accomplishments don’t cut it, and individual accomplishments when team accomplishments don’t cut it.
I personally think he’s a pretty good QB, but there are also about 10-15 QB’s I’d rather have instead of him. When he’s on…he’s amazing. However, his “on” is usually the meat in a mediocrity sandwich that has two or three pieces of bread on each side.
He may be the quarterback on a SB champion one day, it may even be this year, but he’d have to play well beyond his means for him to be the reason the team won.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
You are using team accomplishments to justify a single player being good.
No.
Tell me another QB whose first 4 years were this good and all resulted in playoff berths.
I threw in the bit about playoff berths, since I don’t think it’s a coincidence that having a stable QB situation resulted in us finally putting together back-to-back good seasons, but Flacco’s statistics are stellar in his first four years. Sanchez doesn’t even come close.
Flacco’s career numbers are, 60.6 comp%, 79 TDs to 46 INTs, with a Rating of 85.7
Sanchez’s numbers are 55.1 comp%, 53 TDs to 48 INTs, with a Rating of 73.4
In one less year of playing, Sanchez has thrown two more INTs than Flacco. Pretty bad. Flacco, on the other hand, has what most people would consider pretty good stats, apart from the fumbles (which are admittedly his biggest issue).
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I personally think he’s a pretty good QB, but there are also about 10-15 QB’s I’d rather have instead of him.
This should be good. My list of guys you can justifiably take over Flacco is much shorter.
Brees, Brady, Rodgers (undisputable).
Roethlisberger, Schaub, Stafford, Vick, Rivers. That’s pretty much it. And even some of those are debateable. Vick isn’t a better QB than Flacco when he’s recovering from injuries. Same goes for Schaub and Stafford who have missed considerable time in their careers. And Roethlisberger has his off-the-field issues.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Well…off field issues, and injuries not withstanding…I will give you my list of QB’s I’d rather have.
Rodgers, Manning, Manning, Brees, Newton, Rivers, Stafford, Ben, Brady, Palmer, Cutler, Freeman (Big Ben v.2.0) and Bradford (under the assumption that if he wasn’t in an lose-lose situation, he could shine)
Joe is awesome…sometimes…however, his “what the fuck was he thinking?” moments overshadow his “damn…he’s good” moments’
As I said though…he still could do it…but it will take him playing out of his mind
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I’m wondering how Cutler, Freeman, and Bradford’s “what the fuck was he thinking” moments get a pass but Joe’s don’t.
I’m honestly laughing at your Freeman pick, that guy has had an awful season. Him and Cutler are interception machines.
Bradford and Newton are totally speculative picks. Neither one has had enough success sustained over a period of time to justify saying that you’d prefer them over Flacco IMO, but that’s why they call it “my” opinion.
Peyton Manning may never play another game and you’d take him over a guy whose never missed one? okaaaaayyyyyyyy…
Eli Manning has been the reason his team has won games and also the reason he’s lost them. Flacco, on the other hand, has never led the NFL in the interception category. He also never thrown more INTs than TDs in a season.
A number of these QBs you’ve listed are way more turnover prone than Flacco.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
first point
Because their “wtfwht” moments are fewer and farther between. They also have A LOT less to work with (especially in Freeman’s case)
Freeman has had an awful season. (but..if you want to compare statistics…
Let’s compare shall we?
Freeman
62.8% 3318 yards, 14 td 19 int
Flacco
56.8% 3480, 19/12
yes…better…
That is also better while not having to worry about doing it all, because your defense can back you up. That is also not having to worry about production, because you have Ray Rice. What Freeman has done with what he has, is more impressive to me. Flacco gets new toys every year. Yet, it’s the same old shit.
Now with Peyton, obviously that is assuming that he will play again. (and he will in all likelihood)
About Newton and Bradford..yes..small sample size, but both have proven that they can be “the man”.
Flacco will never lead the league in int’s…it’s impossible when 4 out of 5 pass plays you check down one second after your initial read is found to be covered.
Eli takes chances, but his chances have led to greater glory.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Because their "wtfwht" moments are fewer and farther between. They also have A LOT less to work with (especially in Freeman’s case)
This, first of all, is totally subjective and judging by the interception numbers i’d venture to say it’s completely erroneous. And you say freeman has a lot less to work with while Flacco is having his worst statistical season to date with almost entirely new faces at receiver and tight end. Flacco’s supporting cast—as evidenced by their drops (which he overcame against Pitt)—has not been as good as you’re implying.
That is also better while not having to worry about doing it all, because your defense can back you up. That is also not having to worry about production, because you have Ray Rice.
Joe Flacco is tied for 7th with 523 pass attempts this season. Freeman has 506 attempts (10th). It is wrong to suggest that Freeman is asked to do more. Yes, Ray Rice helps, but you put Cutler on your list and he makes his living off Matt Forte. I don’t think you can fault a QB for having a good pass-catcher in the backfield. I also don’t think, despite having a poor supporting cast, that Freeman’s performance this year really speaks to how good you seem to think he is. If anything, it makes my point. Freeman being better than Flacco is, at best, a purely speculative argument.
Now with Peyton, obviously that is assuming that he will play again. (and he will in all likelihood)
He only recently started playing catch again. I’m not sure how likely his return is, and if he does return, what level of play will he return with?
About Newton and Bradford..yes..small sample size, but both have proven that they can be "the man".
Proven? What have they proven? Bradford had one pretty good year and one pretty bad year. While I think he’s got good stuff, we could both turn out to be wrong and find out that his ceiling isn’t as high as we once thought (a la Matt Ryan, who had a stellar rookie campaign). Same goes for Newton. Bottom line is both of those guys are still developing, whereas Flacco is a guy who is ready to go and lead your team today.
Flacco will never lead the league in int’s…it’s impossible when 4 out of 5 pass plays you check down one second after your initial read is found to be covered.
That’s a result of a system where the third read is often the check-down. The vast majority of us here have clearly stated our desire to see how successful Flacco can be in a more QB-friendly system.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
boy…first of all…read the sig….
Ok, seriously. Going in order of what you said
1) are you seriously blaming drops? The WORST receiver in terms of that stat this year, has 12. Considering the fact that Flacco threw 55 times in a game once, that is a small percentage overall.
Three years in a row, Flacco has gotten a new toy. They were all awesome before they had Flacco throwing the ball to them (Housh, Boldin, Evans) There have been plenty of QB’s that have gotten new receivers that didn’t regress as a result.
(Brady, Rivers, Ben, Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Tebow…etc)
2) Freeman is not asked to do more
Yes..possibly by pass attempts, that argument can be made. However, he does not have that defense to rely on, and while Blount is good..he’s not Rice.. He is expected to carry the team, and as a result, more passes are forced, and more turnovers happen. yes it is speculative, he was just one qb that I said I’d rather have. That is my opinion..I never passed it off as fact.
3) Manning
He will return as Manning..or he won’t come back. I’ve talked to people irl that have had fusions like this. They all say the same thing. It was tough for them, but they weren’t in peak athletic condition. For someone like Peyton..he will be back.
4) What have they proven?
Bradford took a god awful team to 7 wins, when they should have had 1
Newton took a 2 win team that added Shockey and him, but lost their best defensive player, and won 6 (possibly 7 by years end)
that’s being the man. They aren’t along for the ride.
Bradfords regression can absolutely be attributed to King Midas’ evil twin brother that turns whatever he touches to shit instead of gold.
Flacco is ready to go, depending on who you ask. Suggs don’t believe in him, that’s why he makes those passive aggressive jabs at him in press conferences. He has been the starter on some good teams, but no way I’d give him the bulk of the credit.
5) That may be true, but it’s also telling of how much confidence the team/coaches have in him.
As far as Cam…. I’ll tell you, I LOVE the fact that you guys won’t get rid of him. He’s my favorite Raven…
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
are you seriously blaming drops? The WORST receiver in terms of that stat this year, has 12. Considering the fact that Flacco threw 55 times in a game once, that is a small percentage overall.
That was a very small part of my argument. You could have used the blockquote feature but there probably wasn’t any part of my post that would have made me sound as ridiculous as you just tried to. Blockquote>paraphrasing.
They were all awesome before they had Flacco throwing the ball to them (Housh, Boldin, Evans)
Housh and Boldin were physical, possession receivers who were miscast into Cameron’s vertical scheme. Not saying Flacco is entirely without blame in any of this, being that he’s not perfect, but you should be able to see the correlation between their underperforming and Cam Cameron. As for Evans, he’s been hurt. I figured you would have been aware of that.
There have been plenty of QB’s that have gotten new receivers that didn’t regress as a result.
(Brady, Rivers, Ben, Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Tebow…etc)
Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, and Tebow were never as good as Flacco to begin with, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at. The other QBs you mentioned I already acknowledged that you could justifiably pick them over Flacco. So… I’m not sure what you accomplished there…
As for Freeman,
That is my opinion..I never passed it off as fact.
I also have my opinions, but I try to provide the facts I based them off of when possible. As for Freeman, there really aren’t any. Ergo; “totally speculative.”
For someone like Peyton..he will be back.
I have my doubts. At most he has another year left anyway. Not exactly a plan for a franchise QB there.
Bradford took a god awful team to 7 wins, when they should have had 1
Newton took a 2 win team that added Shockey and him, but lost their best defensive player, and won 6 (possibly 7 by years end)
that’s being the man. They aren’t along for the ride.
Flacco took a 5-11 team with essentially the exact same core group of players and then they magically finished 11-5 the next season and went to the AFCCG. Oh I’m sorry, he “just happened to be the starting quarterback.” Double standard anyone?
Suggs don’t believe in him, that’s why he makes those passive aggressive jabs at him in press conferences.
You gotta tell a guy when his shit stinks man. James Harrison made some not so passive comments about Roethlisberger. A QB is not judged by his defensive teammates.
That may be true, but it’s also telling of how much confidence the team/coaches have in him.
Which is an indictment of those coaches. Speaking of…
As far as Cam…. I’ll tell you, I LOVE the fact that you guys won’t get rid of him. He’s my favorite Raven…
So wouldn’t it then stand to reason that he has held Flacco back and is in some way, shape, or form, contributing to his inconsistencies this season?
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
uggh..can you cut it down, dammit
I didn’t see the drops as a small part of your argument. It seemed like a big one to me. Sorry for the misinterpretation. I don’t know why you are trying to make this shit personal.
I do see problems in Cams system, but I can’t blame the overall ineffectiveness of two receivers who have proven themselves to be great on him alone. Flacco is a reason too.
I have heard about Evans being hurt. I’ve also heard that he has been ok at times…it’s hard to keep up.
My list of guys you can justifiably take over Flacco is much shorter.
Your quote, also, your opinion
So, that answers your Freeman question about opinion. We were expressing our opinions to each other at that point.
As far as the 5-11 season. The Ravens were 5-11 just because they were that bad? There was nothing else going on there? He was the one difference between a 5-11 team and an 11-5 team? (Like Bradford was the one difference between a 1-15 team and a 7-9 team, or like Newton was the one difference between a 2-14 team and an at least 6 win team)?
True..qb isn’t judged by his defensive team mates, but in general, his team mates believe in him. Harrison is a dumbass and he will say whatever it takes to get attention at times. Suggs has pretty valid points about his teams poor performances (example..the “I’m gonna feel a certain type of way” thing after Rice got 5 carries in a game)
Last point… I don’t know really. Ben has thrived (to some) despite the fact that every Steeler fan hates Arians. I think Cam is holding him back, but still think he should be better than he is, even with cam weighing him down.
For Peyton..neither of us will know. Time will tell. I’d still take him for one year if one year was all he had.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I don’t know why you are trying to make this shit personal.
Not trying to make it personal man, just saying.
So, that answers your Freeman question about opinion. We were expressing our opinions to each other at that point.
There’s a difference between opinions that have some basis and opinions that are purely speculative, like saying “I feel like 2012 is going to have less rainfall than 2011 did.”
As far as the 5-11 season. The Ravens were 5-11 just because they were that bad? There was nothing else going on there? He was the one difference between a 5-11 team and an 11-5 team? (Like Bradford was the one difference between a 1-15 team and a 7-9 team, or like Newton was the one difference between a 2-14 team and an at least 6 win team)?
Is Bradford the only reason his team went 7-9? Could it have something to do with strength of schedule in a division so bad another 7-9 team WON it? Same goes for Newton. (Newton has had an amazing rookie campaign to be sure, but Flacco has had a good 4 years. I’ll take the guy who’s proven to me over 4 years he’s my starter over a guy who has done it for just one year.)
I agree that Suggs isn’t as much of a buffoon as Harrison is, but he’s still a loud mouth. He wanted Troy Smith to start over Flacco originally.
I think Cam is holding him back, but still think he should be better than he is, even with cam weighing him down.
Fair enough. I’m not a total Flacco apologist. I just try to add some objectivity to the debate.
For Peyton..neither of us will know. Time will tell. I’d still take him for one year if one year was all he had.
I personally wouldn’t but I wouldn’t blame someone for gambling on a guy with that kind of resume.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Well, I just like Freeman’s ability to turn a loss in to a win, over and over again. (with a little support, of course)
Bradford probably isn’t the ONLY reason..but..he is the only major difference.
Yeah..I suppose schedule strength is big. But..consider this.. The AFC north probably has the weakest schedules of anyone this year…the Browns STILL couldn’t win 5 games.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Well, I just like Freeman’s ability to turn a loss in to a win, over and over again. (with a little support, of course)
because their W-L record is just so good….
it’s not this year. I acknowledged that. ( I think) Sometimes…there are situations that can’t be overcame.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
He was drafted in 09
They went 3-13 in 2009, 10-6 in 2010, and are now 4-11. When has he ever shown an ability to turn a loss into a win over and over again? His team has a record of 17-30 since he was drafted, and he’s started all but (don’t hold me to this) 3 or 4 games, I believe.
his first start came in week 9 of his rookie year. Honestly, his magic only really happened twice that year (first game, and the game against NO)
However, half of the wins he led that mediocre team to in his second season were of the late game comeback variety. (last possession while losing)
This season, he only had 3 such games.(one was not come from behind, just to break a tie for the win) but still. that team is horrible. He has more than shown a knack for pulling w’s out of his ass, despite the over all ineptitude of the rest of the team.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I don't know, the guy is pretty bad
You keep comparing him to Ben, but put Ben on that team this year and they win 10 games. Freeman just isn’t that good.
The More and More
I think about it, I may have to agree with you about Ben. I used to think Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Ben (in no particular) order over Flacco – no argument. But given the CBA, you are right, that is a lot of baggage to have to deal with on an ongoing basis, whether it is motorcycles, college chicks – whatever. Ben may be a wizard on the field, but off the field- ugly, ugly, ugly. Yes, no Peyton in that group as I think he is done, or darn near close to being done. But I would add Eli into that group.
And that is about it. I am not sure the delta is so much better with the Ryan’s, Rivers, Schaub’s, Cassel’s and Vick’s of the world, if it would be worth swapping any of them for Flacco. Maybe Schaub, Cassel and Rivers… not Vick and not Ryan.
But I would pass on Stafford and Bradford, at this point. Maybe in a year or two. Newton? Dalton? Too early (same with Ponder and Gabbert). Definitely pass on Romo, Palmer, Cutler, Orton, Sanchez, Smith.
Freeman? That is a joke.
And yes, stability at the QB position plays a huge part of a team’s overall success. It is especially applicable in whether they make the playoffs for a sustained amount of years. It is no coincidence that the Ravens have won at least one playoff game three years in a row, with Joe at the helm- few teams have accomplished that and made the playoffs a fourth year in a row.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
Cassel? Seriously?
Kyle Orton is better than that guy.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Cassel
Has had his moments. He may have peaked and I could be a victim of just seeing ESPN highlights versus seeing the Chef’s game regularly.
To my credit, I did lump him in the group in which I did not think we would gain much difference by swapping for.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
He may be the quarterback on a SB champion one day, it may even be this year, but he’d have to play well beyond his means for him to be the reason the team won.
How well beyond his means? Well enough to sweep last year’s AFC Champs? That well?
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
there it is….he was the starting QB in two wins against the big bad Steelers…that validates his entire existence…
come on man. If a guy plays two good games, then plays like Gabbert in games against weak ass teams, how does that balance out? That’s Mark Sanchez shit..
next your going to Malor me and talk about he threw more complete passes to players that practice Buddhism but aren’t as devout as Ghandi’s disciples
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
there it is….he was the starting QB in two wins against the big bad Steelers…that validates his entire existence…
Nope. Its his PERFORMANCE in those games, that you seem to ignore, that I would point to as saying this guy has the right stuff. And I could point to other games too.
That’s Mark Sanchez shit..
I feel comfortable stating flatly that I already did away with the Sanchez comparison. There isn’t one.
next your going to Malor me and talk about he threw more complete passes to players that practice Buddhism but aren’t as devout as Ghandi’s disciples
I have absolutely no idea what this means.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I’m not ignoring it. I’m saying that is two games….in a four year career…you could point out others..please do. I could point out more that would prove the counter point to what you are saying.
As far as the last part. you shouldn’t have any idea. No one that has to see Malor’s “proof” ever knows what any of it means. That’s the point.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Remember the Ravens-Titans playoff game in his rookie season when he completed the bomb to mason that set us up for the go-ahead score? That was beautiful and clutch.
Against the Vikings in a 2009 losing effort where Steve Hauschka infamously missed what would have been the game-winning field goal, Flacco led a 21-point 4th quarter rally. He was 28 of 43 for 385 yards and 2 TDs without an interception. (QB rtg 109.2)
In the Dennis Dixon game that season he was 23 of 35 for 289 yards and a touchdown. (Qb rtg 100.8)
in 2010 he posted QB ratings of 107.5 and 112.9 against Houston and New Orleans, respectively. In the playoffs that year he threw for 265 yards and two touchdowns against the Chiefs, finishing with a QB rating of 115.4.
Against you this season he has posted QB ratings of 117.6 and 85.4, the latter coming in an incredible come-from-behind two-minute drill in which he converted two third downs, one fourth down, overcame three dropped passes (one in the endzone) and finally put the dagger in you with 0:08 remaining. A little more to it than just being…
the starting QB in two wins against the big bad Steelers
…as you so dismissively put it.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
I do remember that play. It broke my heart (lol, I really wanted another shot at Tennessee)
I’m not saying he can’t possibly do it. I’m saying his great play is completely overshadowed by his mediocre to horrible play.
I’m not even a Ravens fan and it frustrates the shit out of me. How can you bee that good sometimes, and that godawful the rest of the time? The guy looks like Joe Montana…then looks like Caleb Hanie…in a two week period.
I’m a Steeler fan obviously, and i don’t go along with the standard Raven player/fan philosophy that beating my team is the pinnacle of your career. I would not ever dispute the fact that Joe played well against us. Cool!. He followed those great performances with stinkers against the Titans, and Seahawks.
That’s him in a nutshell right there.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I’m a Steeler fan obviously, and i don’t go along with the standard Raven player/fan philosophy that beating my team is the pinnacle of your career.
I don’t either. But it was a damn good performance in a pretty sticky situation and he made that shit look beautiful.
He followed those great performances with stinkers against the Titans, and Seahawks.
That’s him in a nutshell right there.
I’m not dismissing that. But at the same time, his performance does not happen in a vacuum (as you’ve argued with Freeman). Especially against Jacksonville, Gruden and Jaws were pointing out how it wasn’t really Flacco’s fault. The receivers just had zero separation all game long. It was maddening.
Bottom line: we know Flacco is good, but we do not know how good he can be. We need to fire Cameron to find that out.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
He did…He surprised me big time with that drive. I can admit when I’m wrong. No big deal.
But those are good points at the bottom. I can’t argue with that. I do disagree with it always being someone else’s fault though. When stuff like that goes down, it’s up to Joe to get in their ass, and make them come back for the ball, or something. Instead, things go wrong, and he turns in to the second dwarf on your team (Kindle being the first, as “Sleepy”, Joe being “Mopey”)
That said. I don’t doubt that a decent OC can fix some of the problems.
I have picked the Ravens to win the SB for 5 straight seasons. All based on pickups or whatever else. (yes, I can be objective despite being a Steeler fan)
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
good thread
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
this has been a good debate.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
are you yanking my crank here? Were supposed to throw childish insults at each other.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
let me ask you this.
It’s the last 1:30 of the Super Bowl. Ravens are down by 5
You can pick ANY QB that doesn’t already have a Super Bowl win.
Are you going with Flacco?
How bout if you could just pick any QB? Same answer?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Any QB with no ring? Yes I’d take Flacco, no question.
Of any QB at all? I’d take Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and perhaps Manning (which is a gamble that he duplicates his SB performance rather than his performance against Washington last weekend).
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
this me me "Malor"-ing you:
So let’s see what they all did in their first three years as starting quarterbacks.
Flacco threw for just 21 fewer passing yards than Brady and tossed four fewer interceptions. Flacco threw for 1,655 more yards than Brees, two more touchdowns and four fewer picks. Manning, who averaged 88 more passes per season, threw for way more yards and touchdowns than Flacco, but also tossed 24 more interceptions.
Lastly, if you’re comparing Flacco to the greats such as Brady, Manning and Brees, that should tell you something.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
Nicely played Jackmca and agree with everything you have said. Freeman over Flacco made me chuckle. The fact is he will never get his respect. I guarantee you even if he wins a Super Bowl that Flacco won’t get any recognition. He only will get it if he averages 300+ yards, 3 TD’s and 0 Int’s every playoff game and our offense isn’t built for that. What I really find hilarious is how Pitt fans constantly rag on Flacco for making bonehead throws, while Ben makes just as many of those. The difference is Ben has shown the ability to recover from those and pull out come from behind wins. Flacco did not do that early on (which most QB’s don’t), but as you mentioned in an earlier post he has made a number of comebacks this year and last year.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Do you mind if I ask why Freeman being a better QB is a joke? I am not trying to disrespect Joe. I know it’s a Ravens blog, but these are just my thoughts, because they were asked of me.
But that is neither here nor there. Why is Freeman a joke?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
He had a horrible rookie season, he had a pretty bad season this year and he’s better than Flacco based off of one good year with an extremely easy schedule in a division not known for defense. I just don’t understand that while Flacco improved considerably each of his first three seasons and has an off year this year with so many new pieces around him and now all these unproven guys are better than him. I just don’t see any logical argument that makes him better than Flacco other than he reminds you of Ben.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
You may be right…about reminding me of Ben.
I guess the only real point I can have is that his team has pretty much sucked since he got there, but somehow he pulls off those miraculous comebacks. (not so much this year lol)
I just said I’d rather have him. That was based on that “comeback juice” I think skills-wise, they are both pretty gifted. I’d just rather have a qb that can make something out of nothing, than a qb that can make nothing out of something.
Joe has improved. He also has a lot of support to help him improve. As I’ve said, lots of QB’s have flourished with a whole new set of toys. Freeman is throwing to nobody…rejects…
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Flacco would be welcome on 25 other teams! 24 of them would trade their draft for him! The entire debate is ludicrous! He is young, he’s a model citizen and he is an excellent athlete!!! I’m done! LOL
by bshagagi on Dec 27, 2011 6:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How do Freeman’s comebacks count more than Flacco’s though? Flacco has had multiple comebacks both this year and last year and all those get forgotten. He has had a great D, but that D has also cost Flacco some of the comebacks he has had. Also his weapons haven’t been as great as you make them out to be. Rice is an absolute stud, but most will tell you Boldin isn’t a true #1. He had those concerns leaving Arizona and they have showed. He struggles to get separation against the better CB’s and is in the top 10 in drops this year last I checked. After that it’s an injured Lee Evans, 3 rookies and 2 second year TE’s. Last year we had Boldin, Mason on his downside and a washed up Housh and Stallworth. The year before we had an amazing Core of Mason, Kelly Washington and Mark Clayton. So as you can see he hasn’t had as great of a group as you claim. This group has some potential, but it’s extremely young and still has a lot of room to grow.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
What do you mean how do they count more? Did I say they did? I know Flacco has a few, I wouldn’t deny that. I wouldn’t say either’s comebacks count more, only that Freeman has done more with less.
As far as the weapons being as great as I make them out to be. This could be another “it’s Cam’s fault” and I couldn’t really argue that. Boldin was an absolute stud before he came to Baltimore, so was Whosurmomma.
But, while talking about supporting casts, we could also point out that Tom Brady’s receivers are named….. ummm…….oh..Welker…
We could also point out that Freeman’s targets last year were a bunch of people you’ve probably never heard of (Briscoe, Stroughter, and that guy that quit on his team at Syracuse)
I think in the end, those things are just excuses. My Raven fan friend has said the same thing since Flacco was drafted. (he just needs some time to click)
I personally disagree with him not having a good group. Manning has turned Anthony Gonzalez and Brandon Stokely into stars in their brief stints. Kyle Orton turned Brandon Lloyd into a star. Matt Moore has turned Brian Hartline and Anthony Fasono into productive players. If Flacco was a big time player, those “no names” you talk about would do something. that’s how it works. I’m sorry, I’m not trying to “troll” or whatever else you may think, these are just my thoughts, which mean nothing.
I don’t hate Flacco, and in fact, I could argue that I am ten times more disappointed in him than any Raven fan, because I expected a lot from him. He shows it some times…nowhere near as much as someone with his talent should
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
But, while talking about supporting casts, we could also point out that Tom Brady’s receivers are named….. ummm…….oh..Welker…
Are you kidding me? He has weapons. Those 2 TEs he has are incredible. Branch is still serviceable as well, and you wanna talk about how Boldin and Housh were so good before they came to Baltimore, what about how good Ochocinco was before he went to NE?
He has those two tight ends…this year… What was it before that? A past his prime Moss? Branch is ok..with Brady throwing him the ball (as evidenced by his production in Seattle (i think).
I can’t answer your question about Ocho..because I don’t know what happened to him. I’m guessing it’s age..but I can’t be sure. But that’s one example of something not working.
even still. Ocho’s numbers were already in steady decline. (last two years were the worst of his career, outside of his injury riddled season)
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
A past his prime Moss?
I wish we had a past their prime receiver that caught 25 TDs. As far as Brady’s career, he has had plenty of good targets, Welker, Moss, Branch as we’ve already covered. Troy Brown was very good for them, Ben Coates and Ben Watson at TE. He has also had some good running backs. Corey Dillon put up very good numbers with NE. Kevin Faulk. Donte Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney even had some good years there. He has had good players, and until recently they normally had a very good defense as well.
He did catch a lot of Td’s (23), he found the fountain of youth that year, his one year production blew his previous 5 years out of the water. You gotta give Brady credit for that.
As far as the others you named, do you really think any of them are leagues ahead of the receivers that Flacco has had? You don’t think he’s had anyone that can match up with Troy Brown? You don’t think Heap can match up with Coates or Watson? You don’t think Rice matches up with freaking Corey Dillon? (another way past his prime back)
You’re saying that there has never been Raven that can touch any of those Pats players you mentioned?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
He did catch a lot of Td’s (23), he found the fountain of youth that year, his one year production blew his previous 5 years out of the water. You gotta give Brady credit for that.
Moss always had that ability. He is notorious for whining and under-performing, he was just motivated that year.
You’re saying that there has never been Raven that can touch any of those Pats players you mentioned?
I don’t know where you’re trying to go with this. Flacco is not, and never will be, Tom Brady. I’m just saying Joe is a very good QB, and has been despite average at best supporting casts and retarded at best Cam Cameron.
Where I’m trying to go with this is simple. Joe has had his share of weapons. But it’s always an excuse. I don’t get why. Todd Heap could be considered an all time great, Ray Rice is amazing. Boldin is pretty damn good.. etc etc. But..there’s always some excuse.
Yes..Cam Cameron sucks. So does Arians. One of them found a way.
Joe is a very good QB…sometimes…
he’s also horrible just as often, if not more so.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Joe is a very good QB…sometimes…
he’s also horrible just as often, if not more so.
This is where the main disagreement lies. Joe is good far more often than he is bad. His career numbers are very strong, in every category. This is not a team where the QB will put up gigantic numbers, it’s not the way we’re built.
Ok, that’s a fair point. And I will say that it was probably overboard to say “just as often if not more so”
But it seems like he lays those stinkers way more than a player with his talent should.
I have been involved in lengthy debates with friends that are Ravens fans defending Flacco. After this year, I’m starting to think they are right. And yes, I know he played very well against my team twice, but it seems like everything these 2 people say is true now.
But either way, at the end of the day it don’t matter. i appreciate you having a discussion without trying to make it personal. And I hope you’re not thinking I’m just trying to start shit or whatever. Good luck to you and your boys this year (unless they play the Steelers of course)
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
But either way, at the end of the day it don’t matter. i appreciate you having a discussion without trying to make it personal. And I hope you’re not thinking I’m just trying to start shit or whatever. Good luck to you and your boys this year (unless they play the Steelers of course)
No need to get personal, being a fan of a certain team isn’t a moral flaw (except for Yankees fans) so I don’t know why people are so angry at other teams fans, everyone has their reasons for liking whatever team they life…just don’t talk to me on gameday lol. And I may hate the Steelers, but I respect the hell out of them, and if they weren’t the Ravens rival, they’d probably be a team I really liked.
But it seems like he lays those stinkers way more than a player with his talent should.
I agree, but this year only, and that has really been the whole offense laying a stinker, not just him…for all the reasons that we’ve already covered. If I’m wrong I’m wrong, but I really think next year he’ll be right back on the track he was for his first 3 years. Very solid numbers, nothing overwhelming because that’s not our style. Plenty of wins and in the playoffs again.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I don’t expect him to play like this in the future. Even still..he’s still winning..so how bad is it really?
Maybe a new OC is in order?lol
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Maybe a new OC is in order?lol
That’s all we can ask for. Every player on offense will benefit from that, but Joe and Boldin the most, Cameron just doesn’t know how to use players to their strengths (among his many, many other deficiencies)
The Pats run the most QB friendly system in the NFL.
They run a system that gets the most out of each of their players. Let’s ignore they guy passing the ball for a second and then try to determine which system is going to put up better numbers.
Look at Welker, he’s a small receiver who is great with his cuts but doesn’t exactly blow anyone away with his speed. He was a no name in Miami. What does the system have him do? He runs quick underneath routes that have high completion rates and an opportunity to make a cut down-field for YAC.
Now look at Boldin, he’s a physical receiver that uses his body to beat his coverage and is not likely to blow anyone away with his speed, but he can break some tackles. He dominated in Arizona with underneath routes. What does the system in Baltimore have him do? He runs long developing patterns that break 10-15 yards off the line of scrimmage where the safeties can help make a tackle. These types of patterns have lower rates of success and leave little room for YAC because the defenders have more time to react to the ball as it is in the air.
by Mayne_Event on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
To Your Point
About the Patriot’s system- look at the career year Cassel was able to put up in New England and then parlay into a big-time payday. Has not been able to duplicate that success elsewhere.
The system definitely helped him. No way to determine, but I would be very curious to see how Brady would have performed in another system…
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
so…If I’m not mistaken..you are saying that nothing is Joe’s fault..it’s all the system/Cam?
Not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to understand your point
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Enough!
I am too old for this shite.
You have been belaboring the Flacco discussion via a straw-man argument all over the place. When someone puts forth positive evidence about Flacco, you act like folks are claiming Flacco is the greatest thing since sliced bread. No one is; they are all saying he is a good to very good QB -and you know this, you just choose to nag. Many folks have put forth reasons as to why Flacco has been somewhat hindered. So then you make that out as we are making excuses for him. We are not. We are just pointing out facts that do not help Joe reach his maximum.
Your arguments are based on the premise that Flacco is either other-worldly, or he sucks -that is how you have framed your argument because you know it will get a rise out of folks. You purposely ignore the middle ground: Flacco most certainly doesn’t suck, no one is making excuses for him, and he is not elite, at least not yet; but he is a good to very good quarterback. And before you go there, I know you never said, “Flacco sucks”, but you have certainly implied it in many posts. Just like you have ridiculed many posts as if we were making him out to be Superman when in reality we were just making the case that Flacco is a damn fine quarterback. That is it in a nutshell. And by the way, who cares if Ravens fans on a Ravens blog make their Ravens QB out to be the greatest thing? Who made you the correctness police?
You are being intellectually dishonest and It is called passive-aggressiveness and you are a classic study in it.
Don’t go away mad, just go away. Please. For the love of all that is right and good in this finite world. Yes, as embarrassing and undignified as it is, I am begging you. Take your ball and go home.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."
"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
"God's whiskers! Your face is as hideous as the demon's in my storybook!"
"I never expected to see the day when girls would get sunburned in the places they do today."
"It's big for a reason."
For Pittsburgh fans, that's Pope, Twain, Rostand, Rogers and Megamind
by vlad755 on Dec 28, 2011 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The point is,
the Ravens system is not one that plays to the strengths of all its players. Because of this, Flacco is not in the top 5 QB conversation.
Joe can make any throw, this fact alone makes him an average QB at worst. He has great size and one of the strongest arms in the league, which definitely bumps him up a few spots in my book. His footwork isn’t perfect, but it has been getting better. He can have trouble reading defenses at times and seems to get baited into bad throws. Ball placement and timing with his receivers aren’t perfect either and only time will tell if that will ever improve. Protecting the ball while being tackled is another big issue he’s had.
There are things Cam could do to help Joe and the rest of the offense out, but he doesn’t. The plays being called is one, but I feel that my last post explains part of that.
The one that doesn’t get mentioned often is the inability to get the playcall in early, especially in high pressure situations. The Chargers showed us how presnap reads and adjustments can expose a defense. It is too often that we see our offense get to the line and barely snap the ball off before the playclock expires, making the play is effectively dead before the snap because our Oline can’t make the right blocking assignments and Joe doesn’t have the time see the coverage/blitz. That or we burn a timeout.
by Mayne_Event on Dec 28, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Boldin also was in a pass heavy offense with a guy name Fitzgerald playing next to him. Then are you really comparing Flacco to Brady and Manning? That’s the biggest problem. How is it fair to judge him based on two of the greatest to ever play? Freeman had one good year. As far as Kyle Orton and Matt Moore I don’t even know why they are in this discussion. Also based on those arguments you could say Flacco turned Torrey Smith into a very good WR because he’s put up very good numbers for a rookie.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Not comparing in a sense that he’s on that level, but that’s the argument a lot of the people here are making. They are saying he’s a top 5-10 qb in the league. Well, if that’s true, those guys do well with whatever they have.
But also, that’s not the only names I threw in there. those are just two that have been able to make somebody’s out of nobody’s . Flacco has had somebody’s… they ended up becoming nobody’s (Housh, Boldin)
Moore and Orton are in this only because those are two bad qb’s that have still managed to do positive things despite the fact that they have basically no one around them. It was the (relevant) balance to Brady and Manning.
As far as Smith.. I can’t say Joe hasn’t made him a stud. Dude’s had a really good rookie year. There are no arguments there. But..that’s one guy.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I haven’t seen anybody make a top 5 case for him and he’s being compared to two of the all time greats. As I said before Boldin had Fitz next to him and Kurt Warner throwing to him and even before he played a snap here people questioned his ability to be a #1. No Housh wasn’t productive before. He couldn’t even cut in Seattle prior to here. Moore and Orton haven’t really accomplished anything, so I still don’t really get that argument.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Well, you haven’t, I have. Not necessarily top five, it’s somewhere between 5 and 10 that I hear.
I guess it would help if I actually knew what your evaluation of Flacco is.
I’m not entirely sure the point you are trying to argue. From the looks of it, we may actually agree, but choose to ignore that fact because we root for different teams.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Flacco has had somebody’s… they ended up becoming nobody’s (Housh, Boldin)
Boldin would have had 1,000 yards this year if he didn’t miss the last 2 games in all likelihood. Boldin isn’t putting up the numbers he did in Arizona, but that was a very pass heavy offense, and he’s also on the wrong side of 30 now. He’s still a very good receiver, hardly a nobody. Housh was washed up, and only a 3rd receiver who didn’t get much playing time, but still got 400 yards and 3 TDs. Your argument has no basis.
I personally disagree with him not having a good group. Manning has turned Anthony Gonzalez and Brandon Stokely into stars in their brief stints. Kyle Orton turned Brandon Lloyd into a star. Matt Moore has turned Brian Hartline and Anthony Fasono into productive players.
Stokley was decent before Indy, and in fact he only had one good year there. His next most productive year was as a Bronco. Lloyd, in SF, had some good years when he came in the league, but then fell off the map in the shithole known as Washington. Fasano and Hartline aren’t having any kind of breakout year, so I don’t get where you’re going there.
Stokely. You could say he was decent. But..his highest total of yards before Indy was 357. His first year in Indy, he missed 10 games, but his second season, he was a 1000 yard receiver. That’s a big difference.
We can agree that Hartline and Fasano are nobody’s right?
Well..both are in the 500 yard range. That is with a qb that most people say shouldn’t be in the NFL. So..what should a big name qb be able to do with receivers like Boldin?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
His first year in Indy, he missed 10 games, but his second season, he was a 1000 yard receiver. That’s a big difference.
And never sniffed that kind of production again. He had better numbers in Denver than he did with Manning, and he was older in Denver. Fasano and Hartline are putting up numbers consistent with their career averages, it’s not like Matt Moore is making them into Larry Fitzgerald and Antonio Gates.
So..what should a big name qb be able to do with receivers like Boldin?
Put up what would have been a 1,000 yard season barring the injury and go to the playoffs for the 4th straight year. And beat the Steelers twice, including a 35-7 trouncing. Too bad Joe couldn’t do that….
and it comes back to those two games. The standard last ditch effort.
Please remember, we’re not arguing who is a better team this year. We are only talking about Flacco. That’s it..
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Please remember, we’re not arguing who is a better team this year.
And actually, I’d have to say the Steelers are a better team this year. Yeah we got the 2 head to head wins, but maybe we just match up better against you guys. I felt the same way in 2008, but the other way around. The Ravens are 9-4 against the rest of the league, the Steelers are 11-2. Likewise, in 08, the Ravens were 11-3 against the rest of the league with the Steelers are 9-5.
The biggest problem with the Ravens this year has been the inconsistent offense, including Joe. But with only 1 receiver with any experience, a shaky O line and terrible OC, I’m more inclined to believe Joe will rebound and have the best year of his career next year when all those issues are hopefully resolved (aside from O line, if and when we lose Grubbs, it’ll be a major blow, not to mention the uncertainty of both LT and RT and the 2 aging players at C.)
And actually, I’d have to say the Steelers are a better team this year.
pffft. F U! Seriously though, i do disagree with that statement. i mean, I agree with your points about the Ravens, but I still think they are better this year.
My main reasons are simple
1) They have caused only 14 to’s (compared to 37 last year)
2) it seems that they just can’t get to the QB.
Those have been the staple for as long as I can remember.
I will say this, both of these teams have some pretty big issues. But at the same time, there is a lot of positives about them. Despite the negatives, I still think one of these two teams are going to represent the AFC in the SB this year.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
my numbered reasons were obviously problems with the Steelers that “supported” my argument that the Ravens were better this year.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
I got it
Both teams do have issues, but as you said, one of them will be in the Super Bowl and both are capable of winning it.
I guarantee they’ll play each other in the divisional round. If the Ravens beat the Bengals, we’ll be the 2 seed and Steelers will be the 5. Or, if we lose, you’ll be the 2 and us the 5. Either way, whoever is the 5 will go and beat the Broncos/Raiders. The 6 will beat the Texans because they’re garbage. That means the 5 goes to the 2. Round 3, coming up soon.
I kinda hope they meet again (but also kinda hoping they don’t…too much pain lol)
It probably will come down to it. Just hope it’s a classic Steeler/Raven game…(of course..with the Steelers winning)
But yeah…isn’t it exciting to almost always be in the hunt like this?
Imagine if you were a Browns fan? Every year around this time you’re thinking “who are we going to pick in the first round”…blah
See you soon man, good chats (IMO)
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
Definitely
2 of the best run organizations in sports, that’s why the rivalry is so great. As far as a 3rd meeting, I just want revenge for 08 haha
So let’s see what they all did in their first three years as starting quarterbacks.
Flacco threw for just 21 fewer passing yards than Brady and tossed four fewer interceptions. Flacco threw for 1,655 more yards than Brees, two more touchdowns and four fewer picks. Manning, who averaged 88 more passes per season, threw for way more yards and touchdowns than Flacco, but also tossed 24 more interceptions.
Lastly, if you’re comparing Flacco to the greats such as Brady, Manning and Brees, that should tell you something.
Don’t lose anymore hair over it.
Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.
Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang
by Mr MaLoR on Dec 27, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why bother arguing with a Steelers fan? They fear Baltimore but they don’t respect themselves enough to have respect for Baltimore! Ben is as likely to throw and interception or take a sack as he is to make a play! Why aren’t we debating whether he belongs in the conversation with the elite quarterbacks? :P
by bshagagi on Dec 27, 2011 5:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
pitt trolls….
rothlis iz done… bandwagon yinzers…
right?
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
i thought it was him for a while
but i dont think so anymore.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
You may be right..but there are too many similarities. The responses are very similar (minus the “a-hole” factor, but that’s for show)
I know the join date is old, I also know that I never saw the name before the ban
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
What was the final straw for Skev getting banned anyways? He didn’t make fun of Bruce’s bulldog did he?!
by StuckInUtah on Dec 27, 2011 6:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
not sure
i think Bruce would prefer it if we didn’t get into this.
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
…and yet Evan’s spirit lives on inside of each one of us.
by StuckInUtah on Dec 27, 2011 6:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can prove who I am but why am I constantly attacked? I haven’t said one cross word to ANYONE! FrankWyt, you are a Steelers fan who comes to a Ravens board to troll! I’m laughing! Have some respect!
by bshagagi on Dec 27, 2011 6:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
See..that’s part of the reason the questions are there. You call anyone that’s not a Raven fan a troll. That’s classic you.
Boy, I'm three generations deep, in gangstadom
You haven’t made sense in one of your responses to me! IGNORE!
by bshagagi on Dec 27, 2011 6:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I only called you a troll and anyone who reads only what you’ve presented in THIS thread can see you’re a Steelers troll! It’s usually not that simple but this time it is! Troll!!
by bshagagi on Dec 28, 2011 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
fair enough
I love it knowing that there are a handful of Ravens fans in this area who despise the fact that Joe will be our QB for the next 10 years. --Mr. MaLoR
by jackmca on Dec 27, 2011 10:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Flacco is elite
Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.
Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang
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- Jerry Jones says Cowboys championship window is closing; Tony Romo disagrees
- Lawrence Taylor was told his Super Bowl ring was bought by Charlie Sheen
- Chad Ochocinco gets robbed, mourns loss of Starbucks gold card
