John Harbaugh On Joe Flacco
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 25, 2011 4:00 PM EDT
Email
Print(NOTE: The article referenced in this post was done prior to last night's game)
Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh was interviewed on Baltimore sports talk radio 105.7 The Fan recently about the team's offensive woes, as well as any criticism directed towards his quarterback, Joe Flacco. The exchange was posted over at Sports Radio Interviews and is noteworthy as written above that this took place long before the Baltimore Ravens went out and laid an egg against the Jacksonville Jaguars in their 12-7 loss on Monday Night Football.
Harbaugh defended his QB and rightly so. An NFL head coach is responsible for the success (or failure) of a team, his coaching staff as well as the players. He knows and sees how hard they all work together for the same goal and feels their pain, frustration and accepts blame when that goal is neither reached nor comes close.
At the same time, the stats can gloss over a performance from either side. If a player has a huge game but the team still loses, it is a success? Conversely, if the team wins and the player has a mediocre or even poor game, it that a success too? Football is the ultimate team game, so to say that a QB has "won" the most games in his 3+ years does not necessarily make him a great, much less good QB.
Or does it?
62 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I am sure Harbaugh said something like this.
“You know, he is calm, poised, Joe is Joe, and he will be the first one to tell you he needs to get better. We all like to get better. Getting better makes us better, which ultimately pumps our hearts, made of lions, or is it hearts of lions? Oh well, swords and shields. What do you know about football?”
Flacco has to trust his receivers to make catches, but shouldn’t throw towards coverage. He needs to attack deep more often, but shouldn’t hold onto the ball so long. He needs to show more awareness in the pocket and move to extend plays, but nothing good comes of him leaving the pocket. He should run with the ball if nobody’s open, but he definitely can’t run with the ball.
Flacco should have the awareness of Roethlisberger, the elusiveness of Vick, the control of the offense of Manning, the leadership of Brady, the accuracy of Brees, and the arm strength of … Flacco? - Ampallang
Get a hold of yourself. The week 8 meltdown isn’t a good look…
And next time you side with a pitt troll over a ravens fan, remember what they all think of you: “douche”
by Evan Skev on Oct 25, 2011 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The next time you post here, remember what WE all think of you, you fucking insipid pussy.
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 25, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? So I can contribute to the government paying for your sex change operation?
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 25, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't use getting a sex change as an insult
its rude and insensitive
by kryptonianjorel on Oct 25, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You know you’re defending a guy who regularly refers to things he doesn’t like (Pittsburgh mostly) as gay, homo etc., right?
You know you’re defending a guy, most of whose comments involve some allusion to sucking, anal sex (people being butthurt) and general gay male sexual activities and the implication of his use of those terms is always derogatory, right?
You know you’re defending a guy who is generally considered by every regular writer on this board to be a troll and is regularly flagged as such, right?
Now, since I assume you either knew that, or do now, on to my comment which was not using a sex change as an insult, but as the instrument to challenge why Evan was so inclined for me to get a job – the concept being that he well may want a sex change and cannot afford it without government (and my meager contribution to same) assistance.
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 25, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No problem
pitt sucks black & yellow ballsacks
by Evan Skev on Oct 24, 2011 5:33 PM PDT
Good game. Great win Jags fans!
pitt fans go eat a Dick… As usual
by Evan Skev on Oct 24, 2011 9:00 PM PDT
Great win Jags fans… Yinzer bandwagon can eat a Dick…as usual
by Evan Skev on Oct 24, 2011 9:10 PM PDT
Week 7 no biggie
Brady will assrape the pitt ladies this Sunday. Can’t wait to jump into their game thread and get banned
Go Baltimore
by Evan Skev on Oct 24, 2011 9:17 PM PDT
That enough gay insult imagery for you?
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 25, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I see dirty shit talking… Just don’t see any racism, bigotry, or hate speech
Humor us and point it out
Or apologize and shut up
by Evan Skev on Oct 25, 2011 10:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Aww, the evidence isn’t evident to you? Typical political move – just keep moving the goalposts of proof. Yeah, homophobes and other bigots rarely recognize their transgressions in their own speech. But I’m sure anyone else reading those examples can see it. The great thing is that no one wants to be involved in our argument, so you’re not gonna get the audience you crave no matter how many times you reply.
Also, get your facts straight. I never used the words racism or hate speech. You brought those up. I said that you are the one that continually uses gay male sex imagery as an attempt to insult whomever it is you’re on about at the moment. The sad thing is that you run your mouth so much that your backlog of comments only goes back a day or two, so I couldn’t find the one from a day or two ago where you – without any provocation because it had nothing to do with the thread – opened the comments section with something that read like “Pitt is the gayest city in America.” You do it all the time and you don’t like getting called out on it.
And before you bring it up, yes, I’ve certainly done it to you – because you’re a homophobe and the best shot I can take at you is to imply you are what you hate.
And no, I won’t shut up under any circumstances and it will be a cold day in hell before I’d ever apologize to you.
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 25, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
pitt is the gayest city in America. It’s fact… and I live in San Francisco.
You’re reaching, Grumpy… and your vendetta is clouding your judgment. So shut up… unless you want to provide some evidence as to why pitt isn’t the gayest or one of the top 5 gayest cities in the country.
Not shutting up, Yvonne.
What a fucking loser. Combats being called a homophobe by making (probably unfounded) homophobic statement (cite your source for the assertion if it’s not intended as a slur). And then, by the end of the third sentence, has softened his very exact assertion to maybe one of five. I’m sure if pressed further, it would be, “well, it’s in America…”. You argue like a third grader – a badly educated, homophobic third grader.
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 26, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
are you drunk? I know you have a computer and an internet connection…
just google “gayest cities in america”
No asswipe. It’s your assertion. I’m not doing the work for you. YOU provide proof – if you can. And don’t link to a comedy site as “proof”.
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 26, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
So shut up… unless you want to provide some evidence as to why pitt isn’t the gayest or one of the top 5 gayest cities in the country.
What does this have to do with anything? Who cares how many gay people live in a city? Evan, I really don’t have a problem with you, I know most people on here do….but I don’t see how this discussion has a place on a Ravens blog.
I'm just waiting for Flacco to take the next step in his maturation.
I haven’t seen it in a while especially against good defenses.
I’d like to see him scramble for yards more often instead of holding the bill and running for the sideline
by Evan Skev on Oct 25, 2011 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ah. He's mobile enough to do that.
I want him not to throw across his body again and understand what he sees. He’s making rookie mistakes which is alarming, IMO. Its ok once awhile; not week in, week out.
We’ve seen him play excellent ball… Hopefully they get it figured out
by Evan Skev on Oct 25, 2011 4:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I want to believe he will, but......I have my doubts.
The offensive line doesn’t help either. They were terrible last night.
Flacco and the offense
To say Flacco was bad Monday night would be an understatement.But not all the blame falls on him the Offensive Coordinator has to take some ot the blame too. The play calling was really messed up. The Ravens may need to rethink Flacco in terms of him being the qb of the future. He is very inconsistent.
The Jags defense was much better than you give them credit for
I’m more inclined to blame receivers for not getting open than to blame Joe for not completing more passes. What about Rice’s poor performance, guess that is flacco’s fault too
by kryptonianjorel on Oct 25, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions
Rice is above reproach, IMHO. He carries this offense
Most of the blame falls on management… the coaches have to put players in position to succeed. Watching the Ravens offense is painful… how many times do you see the same thing last night…over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and over… and then again…. and again…
joe drops back… no one is open… line doesn’t hold for more 2 seconds… he looks for checkdown… sack… or incompletion… and never any rhythm with anyone.
coaches: no trickery… no gameplan.. no “setup” — can you imagine what a fish cameron is at the poker table?
why aren’t they setting this kid up to succeed? I have a radical idea… ok… hear me out:
there’s this little town down south called new orleans and they also have a football team that plays in a conference called the NFC. they have a QB named drew brees and i know you’ve never heard of him but he is pretty damn good… not too tall or strong but smart & accurate. he and his coaches have this plan where he varies his snap counts and almost always gets the ball out within 2 seconds… it’s amazing and fun to watch. the D is always back on their heels and they get demoralized because they rarely get a chance to sack him. i know we don’t have all of the resources that pro coaches do but maybe you can go down to the local library and use their internet connection and see if there’s any video on this drew brees guy.
i wonder if there is internet at the Castle… and if there is I wonder if they have ever heard of drew brees or if they’ve ever thought of creating a hybrid offense that suits their QBs strengths and minimizes his exposure to situations that don’t suit his strengths
i know i sound crazy… they’re doing the best they can… harbs&cam.. dumb&dumber
ask me how i feel about the brilliant decision to kick onsides with 2 minutes left on the clock when your D has been stellar
John Harbaugh… Cam Cameron… Cluefuckingless.
ask me how i feel about the brilliant decision to kick onsides with 2 minutes left on the clock when your D has been stellar
does that really matter when even after that the ravens offense needed to just score one touchdown to win the game . Flacco had the chance to lead his team to a victory but what does he do? He throws a bone head pass for a interception and he didn’t even have pressure in his face
"if you really want to know what people think about you listen to their jokes" -N.Moore
+1
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 25, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Well why the hell was a curl route in the middle of the field with no timeouts and time dwindling the playcall?
by Ravens4Life on Oct 25, 2011 6:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well why the hell was a curl route in the middle of the field with no timeouts and time dwindling the playcall?
Why didnt Flacco Audible if he didnt like the play call. I dont understand how some that been here for four years now and knows the offense system more than any one can’t adjust the play call unless he did adjust the play call and it back fired on him
"if you really want to know what people think about you listen to their jokes" -N.Moore
I would imagine...
…it wasn’t his primary read, but the others were covered. Gotta take what you can get as quickly as you can in that situation.
’Course, you gotta see the weakside defender, too, cuz he sees you, and-oops. Nevermind.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 25, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Besides
You guys have a game like this every year, and every year you figure things out, and eventually advance in the playoffs. You were, what, the fourth-best offense in the game before last night? You think that’s just gonna end now? You’ll manhandle Arizona and forget all about this.
Enjoy Patrick Peterson…I’m sure he’ll fill in just fine as a slump-buster for your QB.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 25, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
its very easy to blame the coaches isnt Evan? but i guess you right Joe Flacco is so perfect and all the other players as well to the point they do nothing wrong it has to be the coaches fault
"if you really want to know what people think about you listen to their jokes" -N.Moore
I don’t believe he said flacco is perfect, but basically said our coaches are setting him up to fail. Which is exactly what cam cameron always does. I think cameron I solely to blame. He should never have lasted after the first two seasons. He’s fuckin garbage. Not takin blame from flacco, but I don’t think flacco is a quarterback who should be throwing the ball 35-40 times a game. We should be getting the ball to rice a helluva lot more than what he was given last night. Its already been proven flacco plays better when rice gets more carries and is allowed to make plays. That falls on cameron. As long as he’s our o coordinator, this offense will be mediocre and inconsistent
by Ravens4Life on Oct 25, 2011 6:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I bet you not going to explain lol
"if you really want to know what people think about you listen to their jokes" -N.Moore
Wouldn't it be great?
i know i sound crazy… they’re doing the best they can… harbs&cam.. dumb&dumber
Wouldn’t it be great if all a team needed to do to mimic the Saints offense is go down to the library and watch him play?
I wonder if anyone’s ever thought of that. Millions spent in hiring and firing coaches, scouting, drafting…maybe it really is that simple! All you need to create one of the best passers of his generation is to find a guy who’s “smart and accurate,” and get him to “vary his snap counts,” and “get the ball out within 2 seconds.”
It’s hard to believe it’s so simple. You really should package this together and send it to one of the 27 teams in the NFL that don’t yet have this amazingly easy QB thing figured out. Maybe you could get a job with them.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 25, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
1WinningDrive:
Harbs said part of the reason why Jimmy Smith didn’t see time on defense was because he was getting a little gimpy on sore ankle
by Raven_all_day on Oct 25, 2011 6:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If mike shanahan was our coach Flacco would be benched.
by Raven_all_day on Oct 25, 2011 7:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
after last night
its clear Flacco’s ceiling is basically Matt Schaub type production
i say we give some of his money to grubbs and offer flacco a T2 contract
yup seems that way but i think even Matt Schaub would had done better against the Jaguars
"if you really want to know what people think about you listen to their jokes" -N.Moore
Matt schaub is a better QB then Flacco. Flacco is on the cusp of tier two QB’s.
by Raven_all_day on Oct 25, 2011 8:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
honestly that’s all we need. Last night wasn’t that level, but we just need him to be good. We don’t need an elite QB because of our defense and Rice. We just need someone to make some plays and not turnover the football. If he can give us that I will be thrilled.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
Monday night game Mistake!!!!!!
Here is the Mistake that was made in that game. Someone said it on the blog. Flacco should have taken what was given to him and RUN. If the Receivers were covered and we weren’t able to run with Rice. Then Flacco should have been able to roll and pick up 5 yds at a clip until the defense started to loosen up. However thats not the Brain trusts thoughts. They need to be able to analyze what’s occuring and make adjustments as the game is developing. I don’t believe I saw one screen!!!! Just the same ineffective plays.
jklein
Someone else said the same thing… good point
Lots of problems with the offense… D is Damn good though.
by Evan Skev on Oct 26, 2011 10:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
D is gonna carry this team, no doubt
but the talent we have of offense should make this team the most well balanced team in the league. The offense is a liability right now, and I think it has more to do with coaching than players. Joe has his faults, but he’s handcuffed right now.
The offensive woes are definitely on the coaches hands. I don’t know what they gameplan every week, but I seem to think our game plan should be a simple one
by Ravens4Life on Oct 26, 2011 12:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Someone help me out, and I apologize if you think I’m trolling, but I don’t understand this. Why is it always on your coaches? Your quarterback played horrendously bad in fair conditions. No game plan tells a quarterback to miss receivers by yards – not feet, yards – on simple, unrushed throws. It was a decent defense, yes, and credit deserves to go to them to some extent, but I saw him miss throws very few NFL passers would miss. That pick at the end was inexcusable.
How much coaching does a guy need? Is it Cameron’s fault if Flacco stares down his targets all the time? The fact is, he’s shown you flashes of high level ability, but twice as many examples of average ability.
You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken sh&t. You don’t have a passer who’s capable of winning even if the game plan isn’t the best. Even if he isn’t at his best. He’s not a gamer.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he does just enough to win the AFC this year, or next or the year after that. But he’ll never be considered a great quarterback, because, well, he’s not.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 26, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll agree that Flacco is not a great QB. He’s, as you say, shown flashes, but not consistently.
The reason that we (or some of us at least) put the blame consistently on Cam (and to a lesser degree Harbs) is two fold. One, in his 3+ seasons as our QB, Joe has shown improvement, some subtle and some fairly drastic. While, at the same time, Cam, who came here as a disgraced 1-15 head coach at Miami has not shown growth. The same problems that many saw with Cam in year one are still here in year four. He refuses to change his game plan when things do not work. He cannot adjust on the fly. And he tries to hammer his round players into the square holes of his “style” rather than designing his offense around his players’ strengths.
Two, and it is closely tied to One, many of us feel that Joe is being stifled and held back because Cameron’s game plans are simple and repetitive and not effective against a given opponent, which puts Joe into a position to fail. Opposing defenses can pretty easily guess what the next play will be since Cam really only uses a handful of plays over and over. Cam does not design plays that allow receivers to get free and so Joe winds up having to make his throws either ultra perfect or so far outside that his receiver will be the only person with a chance at it. An ancillary is that our receivers seem to be loathe to actually make the effort to go and get the ball in that situation.
Many of us are wondering how much Joe is a part of the problem, but feel that we’ll never know until he’s put into a system that produces and implements a competent game plan every week. And that will not happen with Cam Cameron.
Monkey Feces for OC.
re: Big Ben - "God can have his soul. His ass is mine." - Terrell Suggs
by GrumpyOldBird on Oct 26, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Cam does not design plays that allow receivers to get free and so Joe winds up having to make his throws either ultra perfect or so far outside that his receiver will be the only person with a chance at it.
This is so true. I find it so odd that I watch other games and at times some receiver gets left wide open with nobody even close, but I really can’t recall when I have seen that here. You rarely see our receivers with much separation if any and I just can’t figure out why most teams get some of those big plays and we simply do not. I think most of us realize and understand that Joe needs to play better and that he’s never going to be a Brady or Manning, but he can be a very good tier 2 QB and that’s all we need. He’s probably not going to consistently win games for us, but he’s certainly has shown ability to be more than just a game manager and can help win some games. With our defense and one of the top backs in the NFL that’s all we need. We just need to get it more consistently and Cam needs to adjust or I don’t know that we find it or if Joe can grow and develop anymore than where he’s at now.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
You rarely see our receivers with much separation if any and I just can’t figure out why most teams get some of those big plays and we simply do not.
Lemme preface this by saying I’m not at all trying to antagonize, I’m just studying up for Steelers/Ravens next week. I’m a writer and I like to research Steelers opponents by talking to their fans. It helps put some perspective on what I see when I watch their previous games.
I have to ask…did you ever consider that maybe getting open is the job of the receiver, not the offensive coordinator? I saw Boldin run a beautiful post corner through the Steelers zone last year for a score. Housh put a nice move on McFadden for a score. The difference between those passes and others where the receiver may not have been open is you aren’t seeing on TV when they ARE open. Unfortunately, Flacco seems to miss that as well.
Ray Rice is a weapon, and should be used thusly, but Flacco struggles to get the ball down the field much of the time. He doesn’t see plays developing the way they are called.
To be fair, sometimes making a move to a different QB coach or coordinator in an effort to play with what you have as opposed to what you want it to be makes sense. If that’s the justification for getting rid of Cameron, then ok. But to blame the coaches for the players not executing is pointless.
I think this is way oversimplifying things, but Cameron doesn’t call the plays designed to fail. The receivers not getting open is on the receiver. They have option routes, they have audibles, if Flacco sees something he likes, he’ll take it. He just doesn’t make great throws often enough.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 30, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to ask…did you ever consider that maybe getting open is the job of the receiver, not the offensive coordinator?
It’s pretty damn hard for them to get open when the DBs know exactly which route they are running and to what part of the field. Our WRs run 3 routes….deep, comeback, and out. All outside of the numbers. Makes getting open extremely difficult.
Also a huge problem when the game was never out of reach and Rice only gets 8 carries. That should be obvious to anybody there’s some problems with the play calling.
On Ed Reed:
"I’ve told him to his face many times, ‘You’re the greatest safety ever to play the game,’"
"We all learn from each other, but we all learn most from him."
- Troy Polamalu
They couldn’t get him eight carries because Flacco was passing so poorly, Jacksonville was living in the box. If he would have made a few throws earlier in the game, they could have established more of the run. As it was, Baltimore gained NOTHING in the first half. They didn’t run enough plays to say “eight carries isn’t enough.” Plus, the proportion gets skewed at the end when they had to pass the eight or nine times on that last drive.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 30, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe it really doesn’t need much explanation as to why so much blame falls on the coaches. As these guys above me pointed out, pretty much all of it is self explanatory and basically common sense. Cameron is an idiot and should never have come to baltimore. He doesn’t know how to gameplan or adjust. He just goes in and does whatever. Im not taking any blame off flacco, but like its already been said, he’s no more than a tier 2 qb and with a DECENT o coordinator who would know how to use this offense, flacco would be just fine
by Ravens4Life on Oct 27, 2011 12:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s common sense that an organization with a stellar record of personnel decisions continues to put its faith in a coordinator who fails as badly as you think he does? Not sure that adds up.
I would like to point out, again, you guys have a top five offense with that “idiot” coordinator. Stats indicate he’s the opposite of what you’re saying he is.
Plus, as a Steelers fan, I’m terrified of that offense, even with a mediocre QB. They’re as versatile as any offense in the league that isn’t in Boston, and can be as unpredictable as anyone. Baltimore’s a very tough team, but even tough teams have bad games.
by Neal Coolong on Oct 30, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Baltimore Beat Down
Related FanShots on Baltimore Beat Down
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SB Nation on YouTube
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- NFL to mandate knee and thigh pads for players
- Sadly, the Pro Bowl may continue to exist and be held in New Orleans
- Giants’ Coughlin nowhere near retirement at age 65
- Seahawks trade for Kellen Winslow; hope to make 2-TE sets more productive
- All reports positive after Peyton Manning’s first organized team activity in Denver
