Ravens Training Camp: Tuesday PM Edition
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 17, 2010 7:09 PM EDT
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Today is 'Military Appreciation Day' at the Baltimore Ravens Training Camp. Any uniformed members of the armed forces are given special seating and access to the team and the coaches all wear camouflage ball caps to honor them. The stands were packed with military men and women, along with their families, from one end of the field to the other.
During defensive line drills, I overheard d-line coach Clarence (CB) Brooks saying, "I love you like sons, but sometimes like sons, you piss me off!" Rookies Terrence Cody and Arthur Jones fetch everything the players need for drills and humbly wait until the veterans drink during breaks before approaching the water stations, just like a pack of lions on the hunt.
The military personnel are everywhere in their full fatigues, which must have them sweating like crazy. But then again, after experiencing the heat in Afghanistan and Iraq, this Baltimore weather is probably no big deal.
Todd Heap has had a great day, making a lunging grab off of a pass down the middle then a leaping one deep, while matched up with a dreadlocked Travis Fisher.
At another point, Joe Flacco's pass to Mark Clayton goes off his hands as perhaps he heard Dawan Landry's footsteps approaching quickly.
Shayne Graham hits a series of FG attempts, with the longest one of 51 yards, before Billy Cundiff matches him with his final one good from the same distance.
Haruki Nakamura makes a nice play knocking down a pass for Anquan Boldin over the middle in the two-minute drill. Flacco marches the team downfield, finally hitting Todd Heap on a short TD pass. Heap then alley-oops it for a leaping Ray Rice to dunk over the goalpost crossbar, but Rice fails miserably in his attempt.
After practice ends, the entire team heads to the sidelines to sign autographs and pose for photos with the military personnel until everyone is satisfied.
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cool did you see any action from Brad Jones oh also I saw on baltimoreravens.com
that Ladarius Webb is expected to come off PuP list soon
Brad Jones plays a bit
on nickel and dime packages, but if far down the depth chart. Jones is former college teammate (Cincinnati) of Nakamura’s, so I know Haruki is happy to have him here.
Great news bout Webb. He seems to be putting most of his weight on the knee, but who knows how it will respond to contact. Back hitting only nine months from ripping his ACL is insane!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 17, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I like brad jones. But I might be a bit biased seeing how I know him and whatnot…..
The Orioles are going to open a can of Buck-Wieser on your ass......
by Zachary Beard on Aug 18, 2010 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions
In every training camp photo of Ngata he looks like the black night in that old Goofy jousting cartoon. Such a terrifying presence.
…night…
I’m a senior at Salisbury University majoring in English.
Oh, the irony.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
Ouch
Have you read that great novel about “The Nights of the Round Tble?”
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 17, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the life of an English major, I’m never supposed to make mistakes, apparently. I hear it from friends all the time. You got me. Have you ever read Mark Twain’s first drafts of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn? Tons of errors. That’s right, I just compared myself to Mark Twain.
No worries, bud. I usually check out the profiles of new people, and I couldn’t help myself when I saw that. It’ll be nice having someone else around here with an appreciation of the English language.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
t’ll be nice having someone else around here with an appreciation of the English language.
Kind of like raven.
Yeah, and raven also excels at pessimism as well.
"Me no function beer welll without."
by StuckInUtah on Aug 18, 2010 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That’s weird. Those kids getting autographs look a lot like soldiers.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
I wore my purple camo to the practice, but they wouldn’t let me into the autograph zone. No clue why.
You’d think if purple camouflage were going to work anywhere, it’d be at the Ravens autograph zone.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
or in a combat situation. That stuff will blend in anywhere.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
As long as the terrain and foliage are all the same exact shade of purple….
The Orioles are going to open a can of Buck-Wieser on your ass......
by Zachary Beard on Aug 18, 2010 6:49 AM EDT up reply actions
i can’t remember what, be he killed one of my jokes a few days ago too. I can’t remember the joke because it isn’t funny anymore. He killed it.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Webb will be off the PUP soon. Wow. I knew we would be fine. Webb and Washington starting. I like that. Now just waiting on Reed, im crossing my fingers for the Cinci game. It would be crazy if one of these other corners turned out to be good.
I think Williams and Miller are both solid players. It’s about time Ozzie found some good undrafted guys that aren’t linebackers.
Settling on the 53 man roster
will be a real challenge for Ozzie and Harbaugh. Lots of arguments in the War Room on this expected. Guess the rest of the league will be on the overhead wires like vultures awaiting to pick us lean when cuts are made.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 17, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It will be amazing
If Webb can play and do pretty well in week one. I’m still not optimistic he’ll be ready, but it sounds like it might be a possibility. It really is incredible how far sports medicine has come. Webb and Wes Welker could both potentially start week 1 after suffering major knee injuries last December. 10 years ago it would have been a near certainty that they’d miss most, if not all, of the upcoming season.
Webb was rehabbing 24/7
alot of players dont have that determination
by Raven_all_day on Aug 18, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Um
He probably slept and ate also, but I get your point, he does have a strong work ethic, although most NFL players do.
Disagree
Ed Reed waited til the last minute to have his surgery. He should be healthy right now if he had Webbs drive.
Chris McCalister still havent properly rehabbed is knee from an injury a few years back.
Antonio Bryant still having knee problems.
Everyone dont have the drive man. Webb did eat but while everyone was spending time with their families he was lifting weights and strengthening his knee
by Raven_all_day on Aug 18, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats speculation on Ed. He’s dealing with a lot more serious shit then just a single injury. Ed is older now and has to pace himself. Young Ed had one of the best work ethics in the league.
McAlister got paid and lazy.
Bryant got paid and lazy.
Webb is still fighting for that payday. I’m not saying he won’t work as hard if/once he gets paid, but its kind of comparing apples to oranges at this point in their respective careers.
Webb making a speedy recovery
Could have multi million dollar implications for him.
To the point your trying to make, I think Gaither is a good example. He’s been really sketchy this off season, which could possibly cost him millions of dollars.
Webb and Gaither are in similar situations, and its clear Webb’s work ethic is >>>> Gaither’s.
If Webb or Fabian don't make it to week one I think we will be fine
until they come back. I think the cornerbacks we have now are not weak like the media place it out to be and a trade would be nice but even that can be risky becuase you can’t expect a good player from another team be good right away on your team;Ozzie Newsome would likely have to find a cornerback that has experience in a 3-4 defense just like the one we have now
I actually agree; I don’t think the secondary is the ticking time bomb the media is making it out to be. The offensive line, on the other hand, is looking pretty poor. I think you could probably throw any five linemen from the roster into the game and have a decent running performance, but a lot of these guys are sieve-like in pass protection. Oher generally looks pretty bad on the left side. Grubbs is inconsistent; sometimes he looks like a first-round selection pro-bowler, and sometimes he calls it in. Gaither needs to rub some dirt on it and walk it off. They need to keep Yanda at guard (it sounds like that’s the plan, too!). None of the backups are even worth mentioning. If these guys can’t pull it together before the season starts, I won’t be surprised to see Bulger starting a few games.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
I know Chester put on some weight this off-season, which could help to address one of his major knocks (folding like origami). Did it seem to help in the first pre-season game? I didn’t stay for the whole thing.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
Oher generally looks pretty bad on the left side.
We’re going off one preseason game here. And this is also forgetting that he held his own against Jared Allen on the left side last year. He’ll be fine.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
We’re going off one preseason game here.
Maybe “we” are, but I’m not. He played LT in five games last year, and wasn’t exactly stellar at it.
And this is also forgetting that he held his own against Jared Allen on the left side last year.
http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/Filmstudy/The-Ravens-Offensive-Line-A-Look-Back-on-2009
“Was most overmatched by: Jared Allen in week 6 or Harrison in week 16 versus the Steelers, both at LT. The Ravens were so collectively overmatched by the Vikings line it was hard to single out Michael, but [Oher] registered the lowest score I had ever recorded to that point.”
According to Filmstudy (who does the best line analysis for the Ravens out there, hands down), he had never graded somebody as poorly as he did when he analyzed Oher’s LT play against the Vikings (of course, Cousins would go on to shatter that record against the Steelers). More from Filmstudy’s year-end Oher analysis:
“PFF has his overall season at +4.5, but that works out as +13.6 in 13 games at RT and -9.1 in 5 games at LT. "
“Development Grade: B+. He’s certainly ahead of the game with his play at RT, but I’m at a loss to see a reason why he should be moved to LT.”
“What we learned about him in 2009: He has the tools and talent to play RT at a very high level. He allowed just 3 sacks in 13 games at RT, but 3 sacks in 5 games at LT.”
He’ll be fine.
I’m not ruling out the chance that Oher will improve his LT play. I hope for Flacco’s sake that he does. But the evidence we have up to this point doesn’t look good.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
that is a convincing, and disturbing case that you make. I hope he makes progress.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I think the Ravens defense will drive the Jets' Sanchez
crazy in week one, regardless of what he’s practiced against the past few weeks. He shouldn’t be too much of a matchup problem with Webb out, but then there’s week 2 at Cincy, with 85 and TO. That could be a real tough test, without Webb, as that might have our 4th string DB up against TO and 5th string against A. Bryant. Ouch.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 18, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that I disagree, but what does this have to do with Oher or the offensive line?
…5th string against A. Bryant.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/16067/morning-take-roethlisberger-will-play
There are some fairly serious rumors going around that the Bengals are pushing an injury settlement with Bryant.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
well actrally how coach haubaugh is talking it seems Webb
will be off of PuP soon and he maybe ready for game number one of the season. I believe our players will be fine with or without Webb and im sure The Ravens can work something out with the secondary business;I just hope another cornerback step besides Cary Williams becuase he is suspend for two games and it would suck for him to turn out great and cant play for us
typo it would suck that he be the only cornerback who turn out
great and cant play for us doing the two games that we may need him in if webb and washington still hurt
Still not sold on Sanchez. His first completed pass of the preseason last year was to Ngata for a TD. His first completed pass of the preseason this year was to Antrell Rolle for nearly a TD. Sanchez does not scare me at all.
I would never for get his expession on his face when
ngata intercepted that pass he throw look like Sanchez had pee his pants
I'm not sold on Nacho either
And I’m also not sold on Carson Palmer. For T.O., Chad and company to wreak havoc, Carson has to consistently deliver the ball down field. I’m starting to really doubt he’ll ever get his arm strength back.
The thing with the Bengals is that they HAVE to win in order to keep those guys happy. I would think that if they were 4-0 and TO or Chad only had 8-10 catches during that span, they might be alright. But if they go on a multiple game losing streak (like I expect them to with their schedule) and TO or Chad are only seeing 1-2 catches a game, there are going to be some serious, serious problems.
by Mr MaLoR on Aug 18, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree
and can’t wait to see THAT train wreck if when it happens.
Rec’d.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 20, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
here's the other problem
They gave TO an incentive laiden contract that gives him 1/3 of a million for each of six personal milestones. Stuff like 10 TDs, 14 TDs (yeah right), yardage, receptions etc. Not all of these milestones are realistic for T.O. this year, but he will want them anyway. What happens if the Bengals are 7-7 in week 15 and T.O. has 8 TDs? He’s going to complain about not getting the ball enough! Simple as that. And the Bengals can’t call him a “cancer,” because THEY incentivized that line of thinking!
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Thats why they will be burnt yet again
For not having a GM. Oh Mike Brown, you and your frugal ways really know how to keep a consistent winner on the field.
Oher had a book and a movie made because of him playing the blind side. Sandra Bullock won best actress because she got to pretend to be his mother. Then she adopted a child because she realised how empty her life was after that. (Not to mention her ex-husband was banging every slut with a tatt)
Basically, America’s sweetheart won an Oscar and adopted a child because of Michael effing Oher!
If that doesn’t mean he should play LT, I have no clue what does.
I was almost moved to tears...
or nauseous-ness.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 18, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oher has work to do
But I’m not going to ever count that dude out. I think he might struggle at first at LT against premier pass rushers, but he has too much talent, too strong of a work ethic and is too damn competitive to struggle for long, in my opinion that is.
I’ve been opposed to the Oher to the ‘Blind Side’ movement. I don’t understand it.
People just don’t realize how good Gaither was last season. He was great… I would say that he was a top-five left tackle last season. His pass protection is light-years ahead of Oher. Too many people are letting the media sway their opinions and buying the hype from the movie. Don’t get me wrong… Oher is a stud in the making, but let’s not run Gaither out of town because a few beat writers didn’t like the way he handled his off-season.
well if gaither can stay heathty then things will be great if not
then we may have to let him go and move on
If I felt we could count on Gaither I would agree
He’s just been too flakey to be relied upon consistently in my opinion. I was at UMD with Gaither, and he was the same way there. So much talent and incredible size but something has been missing for him to take it to the next level. I think Gaither has more potential then Oher, I just feel much more confident in Oher realizing said potential.
All that said, I really, really hope it all clicks for Jared, and if it does, then I would be all for him being our LT.
As Hawk said in another thread, Gaither could be on drugs. (Not just the sticky icky, but the ye-yo).
I agree, Oher has proved to be more reliable. We’re going to have to suffer some growing pains, but his move to LT will benefit us in the long run.
I only thought that drugs were a possibility during the off-season. That would explain the weight and motivation issues, but it would be hard for a player to get away with taking drugs while suiting up regularly.
Gaither is one of the leagues best tackles, and if the Ravens can work through all of these issues, he’s definitely worth it. His level of talent makes all of this nonsense worthwhile.
Gaither’s work ethic reminds me of Haynesworth’s. If we can get something for him this offseason, I’d be all for it. (i. e. Franchise tag, then trade)
I’m guessing they have improved drug testing since the 80’s, but LT(the LB) got away with doing ye-yo six days a week for his entire career.
I disagree
Even if Gaither was completely helthy, I thought Oher was the better LT LAST season. He is much more agressive, athletic and his learning curve/improvement is huge. He is only a few months yunger than Gaither and he will be a much better LT in 2010 than Gaither EVER was or would EVER be. There is zero comparison between the guys. The biggest thing Big Mike needs to improve on is the pre-snap movement.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 20, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Oher was the better LT LAST season.
Do you have anything to back this contention? I’d love to see a rebuttal to my post jackmca mentioned above. Or is this just another “it’s my opinion” claim?
The biggest thing Big Mike needs to improve on is the pre-snap movement.
Oher got away with a ridiculous amount of pre-snap movement last year. If there’s anything on which he needs to work, it’s his blind side pass blocking.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
haha man you are so scathing. You sound so bitter!
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
You sound so bitter!
I’m really not that bitter. I don’t foam at the mouth in rage every time somebody disagrees with me on a blog. I think my sense of humor is just on the dry side.
There seems to be this belief around here that you can say anything unsubstantiated you want as long as you say that it’s an opinion. Bruce has made this Oher > Gaither claim before; I’m just curious as to whether he’s ever going to back it up. It reminds me of Talladega Nights:
Ricky: With all due respect, Mr. Dennit, I had no idea you’d gotten experimental surgery to have your balls removed.
Mr. Dennit: What did you just say to me?
Ricky: What? I said it with all due respect!
Mr. Dennit: Just because you say that doesn’t mean you get to say whatever you want to say to me!
Ricky: It sure as hell does!
Mr. Dennit: No, it doesn’t—
Ricky: It’s in the Geneva Conventions, look it up!
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
I’m sorry, Bruce, but I strongly disagree with you on this point. Gaither was one of the league’s best left tackles last season. Oher did well, but his performance in pass protection was poor for a left tackle.
profootballfocus.com had the following to say in their OL rankings:
Let’s not speculate too much on the real reason for the switch of sides for tackles Jared Gaither and Michael Oher but, to be absolutely clear, we can’t see any on-field or performance reason for the move. In our opinion, this is being driven entirely by off-field considerations. Gaither is top-five LT and Oher’s worst games came at that position. That’s not to say he can’t do the job, but why on earth would you make the change on speculation?
Gaither’s overall performance rating from profootballfocus.com was in the top ten among all tackles. Oher did very well in run blocking, but he did not rate well as a pass-protector, which is the primary role of a left tackle. Like PFF said above, there are probably reasons to move Oher to LT, but they are not due to on-field performance, where Gaither is clearly better now.
PFF scored Oher at -9.1 for his five games at left tackle, and at +13.6 for his games at right tackle.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
Is PFF making you pay to browse their stats now?
I’m not able to find a place to browse their old statistics.
I believe so. I got Oher’s grades from Filmstudy’s piece. The only thing I could find about Gaither was what you posted above. Well, that, and their subsequent speculation that we’d have the top line in the league without switching Oher to LT.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/07/02/2009-offensive-line-rankings/
Biggest Concern: Only how the switch will pan out. Without this move, our money would have been on this being the top line of 2010.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
Yeah, I can’t tell you how dumb I think it is that they’re switching them.
I understand that they want to get Oher reps at LT and Gaither had a questionable off-season. However, you must play your best players in the NFL… it’s just too competitive. They really should be the league’s best offensive line. Anything less is under-performing.
Like I said above
I agree with you Hawk that Jared is the superior LT when hes healthy and motivated. It has to be the intangibles causing the switch.
My guess is they don’t feel comfortable paying Jared big money at LT, as he is such a wild card at times. With Oher you know what you get.
If I felt we could count on Gaither I would agree
He’s just been too flakey to be relied upon consistently in my opinion. I was at UMD with Gaither, and he was the same way there. So much talent and incredible size but something has been missing for him to take it to the next level. I think Gaither has more potential then Oher, I just feel much more confident in Oher realizing said potential.
In an ideal world, Jared would be our LT of the future and Oher on the right side. Jared is a better pass blocker and blind side protector. Oher is a more physical mauler who excels in run blocking, making him ideal on the right side.
It has to be the intangibles causing the switch.
I think that’s obvious. I just get irritated when people act like the switch is due to on-field performance. Gaither is a great player and has been a bit over-scrutinized this off-season. It turned out that he actually had a serious back injury when everyone was saying that he wasn’t motivated.
It would be stupid to run him out of town for petty speculation. Honestly, what has he done wrong? Sure, he showed up to camp a little under-weight, but most players show up to camp outside their playing weight. What else? He’s had a good attitude and has said the right things…
“I’m not a disgruntled person,” Gaither said with a smile. “You know that from every interview. I’m happy and cheerful and smiling all the time. Disgruntled, no. I would never do that to the organization, and I wouldn’t do that to my teammates, to cause a distraction or anything. If there’s ever a problem, I would just go to the coach and discuss it. It’s like anything else. But I would never be disgruntled or try to cause any problems or anything like that.”
On whether he’s expecting to play LT or RT…
“I have no expectations,” Gaither said after the team’s morning session. “Really, when I was coming into camp, I just planned to keep my head down and work. That’s what I’m doing. That’s my approach every year. No matter what happens, work.”
That doesn’t sound like a bad work ethic to me. Why does everyone have a problem with this guy? This reminds me of the 2008 season and McGahee. Most people have probably forgotten now that the blood is out of the water.
Everyone was attacking McGahee for his work ethic when he was injured in 2008 before Rice’s emergence. He was dealing with multiple injuries all season (starting with an eye-gouging in Cleveland), and most players would have probably gone on IR.
Instead, he fought through injuries and played as many games as he could… all while being lambasted by the media for not working hard enough. It was absolutely uncalled for. McGahee did his best all season, and returned to be one of the Ravens’ best offensive players and leading scorer.
This situation reminds me of that because, for whatever reason, Gaither has gotten a bad reputation, and people simply won’t drop it and let the man work. He’s a great player and hasn’t done anything to receive the reputation that he has. People need to let the team figure out what’s going on with his injuries and stop acting like he’s TO.
by BAL_Hawk on Aug 21, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with most of this
But you have to agree that giving him LT money for a long term deal would not be a smart investment at this point.
Also coming into camp at 311 down from 340 is not just a little under weight. Maybe they kept his back injury under wraps, but I get the impression the coaching staff was none too happy with him reporting to camp looking like a big tight end.
I’m in the middle of the spectrum here, I think Jared can be a great LT, but I’ve also followed the guys career closely for five or six years, and he’s never been able to make that leap from good player with potential, to great player.
Make it happen Gaither. Nothing makes me happier then seeing a fellow UMD guy succeed.
The Ravens may want to look at some freeagent offensivelinemen the top ones
so far is Orlando Pace and Will Anderson. Will Anderson would be the one to stick out the most becuase he knows the playbook and it hasn’t been that long since he has been a Raven also he can bring veteran leadership along with Matt Birk to help lead the younger guys
Stop worrying
Webb maybe taken off the PUP by 2maro. He has taken a part of the conditioning test today. Fabian is ready to go, if he wasnt he wouldnt be starting this weekend. Carr is back from his injury and may start saturday as well. We dont have Frank anymore and thats a plus. Pass rush is ferocious. We will surprise the football world!
by Raven_all_day on Aug 18, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice thave Webb back if so
and we’d be so much better with him. I certainly hope our pass rush is ferocious and we will see, and then t won’t matter who our DBs are as they will be making the picks the pass rush gets us!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Aug 20, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
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