Training Camp Battles: Mark Clayton vs David Reed
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 20, 2010 8:00 AM EDT
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62 comments
With only 5 days until the start of the Baltimore Ravens training camp in Westminster, Maryland we take a look at what I think will be the 5 most important position battles throughout the month. Starting off the list will be the competitive battle between former first round pick Mark Clayton and newly drafted rookie David Reed.
With Ozzie going out and revamping the WR position in a way that this city has never seen, Clayton and Reed will more than likely be going back and forth with one another for the 4th WR spot in our offense. Since the lineup already seems to be set with Boldin, Mason and Stallworth leading the squad, I feel that the 4th WR spot will be very important for the offense this season. Cam Cameron has yet to have this many weapons on this roster and our current situation could see for many more 4 and 5 WR sets, something we did only 16 times last year.
Let's take a closer look at the battle.
Mark Clayton - 5'10" - 190 lbs - 6 Years Experience
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Receiving Stats YEAR TEAM G REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST 2005 BAL 14 44 471 10.7 47 2 24 0 0 2006 BAL 16 67 939 14.0 87 5 42 0 0 2007 BAL 16 48 531 11.1 52 0 30 0 0 2008 BAL 16 41 695 17.0 70 3 23 0 0 2009 BAL 14 34 480 14.1 54 2 24 1 1 Career 76 234 3116 13.3 87 12 143 1 1 - To some people, Mark Clayton is a bust at WR for someone who was taken in the first round. However, history has shown that this is the toughest position to be successful at besides QB when taking the step from college to the pros. In the Ravens run first offense, the numbers that Clayton has put up are not too bad considering our QB situation since he has been in the league. Clayton has had a knack for having huge games and then falling off for a stretch.
- What Mark has to do: Mark is going to have to show that he can improve his route running and making the big catch when we need it. Going against teams' nickel and dime CB should allow for an easier opportunity to get open and Clayton definitely still has the speed to get past anybody in this league, just ask Leon Hall of the Bengals. When given the chance to run with the first team, Clayton will have to make the most of the opportunity and show coaches that he can still be a factor in this offense.
David Reed - 6'0" - 190 lbs - Rookie
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2009 NCAA FOOTBALL STATS
RECEPTIONS YDS TDS 81 1,188 5
- WR David Reed was taken in the 5th round of the 2010 NFL Draft by Baltimore after being touted as a very talented WR at the University of Utah. Reed has been known throughout the college football scene as a guy who makes big plays and can play multiple positions on offense. His elite athleticism was showcased as a kick returner as well.
- What David has to do: Reed has already caused quite a stir in Baltimore with a strong showing at the team's OTA's where it was said he caught every pass thrown his way. With how deep our WR group is, it will be tough for Reed to see the field enough to show that he is making the impact we all want from our rookies. However, he will have to make the most of his chances in training camp and especially pre-season games where Reed will very likely see time as the team's #2 or even #1 WR throughout some games.
Other WR who could make a case for the position: Demetrius Williams, Eron (god of WR) Riley.
Who wins the battle for the 4th WR spot?: In the end, I think we will see Mark Clayton as the team's #4 WR. It is tough to comprehend a battle like this because Baltimore is not used to seeing a battle for a position executed very sparingly in this offense. However, with the growth of Joe Flacco and the depth we now have, which will allow us to spread the ball out more, the 4th WR spot could be very important. Also, with the injury concerns of Boldin, Mason and the unsurity of what we will get from Stallworth, it will be important to know who will step up into a starting role if needed. Clayton has the experience in the NFL and been fairly productive. This is not saying Reed does not have what it takes to be a successful WR for Baltimore, but he should have some struggles making the transition into the NFL. Hopefully he can get a shot to showcase his skills as a return man.
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Clayton is gonna be #3
I’d be very surprised if Clayton loses the #3 WR spot to Stallworth. Clayton has had equal or better numbers than Stallworth throughout most of his career, he knows the system well, he has earned the trust of the coaching staff, and most importantly, he is not a year and a half removed from playing a meaningful football game.
In my mind the battle will be between Stallworth and Reed for the #4 WR spot.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
Yeah but,
Stallworth is a threat to stretch the field and Clayton won’t draw the safety off of Boldin, Mase or Heap like Donte will.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 20, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d be stoked for Stallworth to become a reliable deep threat, but at this point that is far from a sure thing. Speed isn’t everything, and there’s a reason he never really developed into a #1 go-to guy.
My guess is there will be many game situations where Cam will prefer to have Clayton out there over Stallworth based on his versatility and proven solid track record.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
Seriously???
Clayton barely performed as the #2 next to Mason, what makes you think he will at #3 with Mase and Q? He brings NOTHING to the table that those 2 don’t already possess, and they are better at it. Stallworth brings something new to the table: SPEED! Clayton will make the roster as the #4, but he will be used sparingly until when/if and injury occurs to one of the big guns. Without an injury, he will be lucky to catch more than 40 balls this year. Stallworth can take those 40 catches and make them into 700 yards. His speed adds a dimension to our offense which is lacking without him. Dickson and Pitta are solid, and can help stretch the field, but Stallworth is our best bet to go deep.
Massacre-
Stallworth is never going to be a #1, nor did any team ever see him as that . He has been a great #2 several times in his career, mainly from 2004-2006 on NO and Philly. He can average 19 yards a catch if in the right situation. We are not going to ask anything from him that he is not good at, and Cam is a great coordinator who is going to play to his strengths.
About this post, I think it is unimportant who wins the #4 spot, because ultimately, no matter who ends up in the 3-5 WR spots, their usage will come down to who performs in games in the early part of the season. We have some very potent secondaries on the early part of our schedule, starting with 2 of the best 3 in the league in NYJ and Cin. We will need the 3-5 WR to show up and abuse their dime and nickel backs. Whoever does that successfully will get the opportunity to be our #3 going forward. Demetrius “won” the #3 or #4 WR position last year in camp, and Kelley still got all the balls not going to Mase or Clayton last year.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 20, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
The last time we saw Stallworth play
he had 17 catches in 11 games with the Browns and scored one touchdown. I doubt anyone here was afraid of him then. Why should opposing teams be afraid of him now?
I just have a tough time believing that Stallworth is a lock to be placed ahead of Clayton on the depth chart. Sure he brings some skills to the table that Clayton may not posess, but he has been out for a while and frankly he was not that impressive the last time he did play.
If I were calling the shots, the #3 spot would be Clayton’s to lose. Its certainly possible Stallworth comes in and tears it up and earns that spot, but theres no way its being handed to him right off the bat – thus its a little premature to speculate that Clayton and Redd will be battling for the 4th spot.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
massacre-
just like there is no way the #3 spot is handed to Stallworth, there is no way it is being handed to Clayton either. Clayton doesn’t even have a roster spot locked down, because his skills are redundant. We do not need him!
As mediocre as Stallworth has been over his career, Clayton has been more mediocre over his. So what you are saying is because Stallworth has one bad season, when something was clearly wrong with him, the spot should be handed to an overpaid, redundant guy who’s best season was worse or about the same as 4 of Stallworths season totals?
Clayton: 44- 471-2, 67-939-5, 48-531-0, 41-635-3, 34-480-2
Stallworth: 42-594-8, 25-485-3, 58-767-5, 70-945-7, 38-725-5, 46-697-3, 17-170-1
Clayton is an average #3, Stallworth, even with his bad season in Cle, is a very good #3, or a solid #2. I am very happy you are not running the Ravens, because handing Clayton anything at this point in his career is a mistake. He is a mediocre player, a borderline bust, and his talent is redundant to what we already have on the roster. if not for the FO wanting him around for insurance for the ageless Mason and the often injured Q, he would be long gone. He is not needed. As I said, he will be lucky to get 40 rec barring a major injury.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 20, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree with you there -
I’m also glad I’m not running the team. Leave that stuff to the pro’s.
Of course, saying that the spot is Clayton’s to lose does not mean its being handed to him (to me anyways), it just means that Stallworth wil have to outperform Clayton to get the spot.
Overall, the only thing I’m really trying to say is its not wise to count on a guy who’s been out for a year and had a poor season the year before that to have a major impact on the team this season. If it works out that way, fantastic, but I wouldn’t bet much on it (and neither would Ozzie, apparently, given the relatively low price of the signing).
They say the empty can rattles the most...
I dont think people give mark clayton respect like he should
people look at stats like it’s everything he became the number 2 wide out for a reason donte stallworth and mark clayton both had there ups and downs in there career but i think Mark Clayton is a good player and sometimes you just need more competition to get your true potential unleash.
clayton is a shitty player
he is a below average #2 and an average #3. He was OUR #2 because we couldn’t get anyone better in until now. In fact, he is so bad that no one even tried to steal him from us this off season. you are clearly a homer if you think that clayton is a good nfl player.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 20, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
ozzie drafted him in the first round right?
by Raven_all_day on Jul 20, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he also drafted
kyle boller…and travis taylor
by organizedchaos52 on Jul 21, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
In my mind the battle will be between Stallworth and Reed for the #4 WR spot.
I don’t think so. The fact that the coaches have talked about Clayton playing on Special Teams give me the sense that he won’t be a top 3 WR. Hey, but he could tear it up in pre-season and take the spot for #3. I just think it will be Boldin Mason Stallworth as do so many other people.
like Rayisyourdaddy said
Clayton is a possession receiver, as are Boldin and Mason. Why would you put 3 possession receivers on the field at the same time when you can put a burner out there and force the defense to play differently?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
stallworth has put up better numbers than Clayton, stallworth has averaged 625 yard a season versus clayton’s 615 or so. i still like stallworth, stallworth, was in cleveland with no QB, Philly didnt have a ground game and New Orleans didnt have a well rounded offense either, i think he can double washington’s numbers as the #3
by Raven_all_day on Jul 20, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Reed FTW
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Baltimore Warrior on Jul 20, 2010 9:27 AM EDT reply actions
Youth and versatility
at returning KO’s will seal Clayton’s cap space hit, be it this year or most likely next.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 20, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Clayton is playing on a one year contract in 2010
I think he will stick around this year and they might let him walk next off season. We should not take a cap hit as he is not under contract for 2011 though. (With no CBA in place there could be weird rules regarding FA I’m not aware of though)
I hope so too
However, the transition for Reed from college WR to running the NFL route tree in a conventional offense will be difficult. Almost all rookie WR’s get overwhelmed with the nuances of the pro game—- site adjustments (hot route), different coverages and speed of the game. Factoring in the timming needed with the QB, I see Reed as the 5th WR. Reed should see the field in the 10 personel (4 WR) sets ONLY if Clayton drops passes in critical situations again this season.
Since we picked up Boldin and Stallworth, I figured Clayton was on his way out. But what I forgot is that Mason is on his way out and Stallworth is not a sure bet. I see Clayton at 3 but depending on Stallworth, there will be different packages. I don’t see Reed doing more than returns until next year. I’m still pushing for Eron. He’s from Savannah. Plus he gets me friends and family priced tickets. And his father is my mechanic.
by Georgia Raven on Jul 20, 2010 10:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You're in Joja?!?
hey dude – I am in Buford / Suwannee area. Just moved here from Merlin back in March. Nice to see some other Purple Birds here in Joja. Caw! Caw! Caw!
I foresee Dickson & Pitta having something to say here...
While many have been predicting we’ll use more 4 receiver sets this year, few have talked about using Dickson & Pitta split out as a flanker… and I bet we see a lot of that. Sure they don’t have the speed of Reed or Clayton, but they both have outrageous reach/span, height, and fantastic hands. Pitta runs routes as well as any receiver, excels at finding the seams & holes in coverage. Both catch everything. I think we could even see sets with all 3 TEs on the field at the same time. I believe that it is the versatility of these 2 great new receiving TEs – to play split out in the slot or in motion – that will eat into Clayton’s & Reed’s ability to get on the field.
Clayton has no learning curve. He has shown flashes of greatness, but to this point he clearly hasn’t been great. Last year I mentioned that D Mason broke out in his 5th year, and it was then Clayton’s time to shine. The door is closing and his opportunities will become fewer from now on, but I think he will get that last roster spot. I’d rather it be the rookie because we already know what we have in Clayton, he’s not going to break out, and Reed could be a jewel. I hope our young tight ends keep both of them off the field, also.
by PurpleNorangeNbeer on Jul 20, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
I Have Said this Before
And I still believe that it will be Clayton and Stallworth sharing the #3 and #4 duties, as someone above stated, depending upon the gameplan that Cam puts into place for any given week.
As high as the coaches are on Reed, I believe they will ultimately have more confidence in a veteran; a veteran that knows the system, knows what the coaches expect and want.
Now, if Reed is like the second coming of Jerry Rice during pre-season, then maybe an argument can be made. I still think Clayton makes the final roster, no matter what, purely as an insurance policy for Boldin and Mason -much like Bulger for Flacco.
I think the more intriguing questions are who gets the #5 spot and do the Ravens keep six WR’s? In addition, do the Ravens take a chance and try to stash Reed on the taxi squad, hope he clears waivers each week and then promote him when someone gets injured (someone will, they invariably do). I suspect that if Reed performs extremely well that he will make the final roster, and the Ravens put Riley and/or one of the other WR’s on the taxi squad, knowing they will most likely not be picked up by another team.
vlad
we been through this. the ravens do not have the luxury of being able to carry 6 wr’s on the roster.
http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2010/5/16/1474079/the-favorites-to-make-the-53-man
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 20, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think five wideouts is enough base on the fact that Boldin and Stallworth are consider to
always get injured but they may hava a injury free year this season
That is One Perspective
But nothing is done until it is signed, the fat lady sings, etc. You are probably right, but depending upon injuries, they may start the season with six WR’s and then adjust accordingly as folks get healthy -who knows? We are so deep at WR (strange saying that), that I could see us keeping a bunch of them. The young WR’s can play ST’s as well as young DB’s; and there is even talk of Clayton pulling some ST duty -even though he says he does not want to do that. I guarantee you if the coaches go to Clayton and say that either he plays more ST or he is cut because, as Raydaddy said above, he is redundant, I feel pretty good he will be shagging punts, playing “gunner”, “breaking the wedge” whatever -unless Clayton doesnot want to be with the Ravens anymore in which case I am okay with that also. Ya gotta want to play like a Raven before you can actually play like a Raven…
Wow, the Ravens website stole my idea. These battles look very similar to the ones I have put together up until training camp.
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2010/07/Eisenberg-_5_Training_Camp_Tossups.aspx
Can someone please explain this to me?
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-07-18/peterson-s-power-provides-edge-over-johnson-rb-rankings
16. Ray Rice, Ravens. They asked him do a lot last season, and he held up. That will be key going forward, because with his size (5-8, 205) they need to keep him from getting him too nicked up as a feature back.
Other RB ranked higher than Rice
Ronnie Brown
Brandon Jacobs
Felix Jones
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
Reggie Bush
Reshard Mendenhall
How the hell is this possible?
I’ve been thinking about it. The only possible reason I can come up with is inbreeding. Lots and lots of inbreeding. Or the “NFL team’s director of pro personnel” was from the AFC North and just hates Ray Rice with a passion.
by RulingWalnut on Jul 20, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, could even have been from the Patriots.
by RulingWalnut on Jul 20, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Again
I go back to one of my very simple questions: if you were building a team, and had a choice of any RB, knowing what you know now, who would you pick? AP and Johnson obviously top the list, but after that, I think you would have to go with Ray Rice. Maybe an argument can be made for a Steve Jackson, or a MJD or one or two other guys over Ray, but certainly not any of the the guys MaLoR called out… ridiculous!
Right now, given other RB’s way more benefit of the doubt (trying to stay objective and not be a homer), Ray is probably a #5 or #6. If Ray improves upon last season, then he becomes a #2 or #3 overall. But how you go from a (realistic) #5 or #6 to be dropped down to #16, I just do not see it…
Ray still hasn't been treated with the full respect from the media
And he knows it. Let the naysayers yuk it up, because it will keep Ray hungry for bigger and better things ahead. That kind of motivation makes history! We can’t forget that linebacker we drafted in the late 1st rd., from the “U” in 1996, that most thought was too small and wouldn’t last in the NFL.
Stay hungry my friend.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper. -Benjamin Franklin
That last signature was gross, Mac. -Johnny O.
by shockeRKhan on Jul 20, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not that deserves a "rec"
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
wow did this guy even watch football last year? that has got to be the worst running back list I have seen. Rice is easily a top five back, imo top 3. I also am a big mjd fan and they got him there at 8. This guy is retarded.
Well, this is his "criteria" for the rankings
When an NFL scout evaluates a running back, the player’s size, power, speed, durability and versatility all play a role in the overall assessment. Sporting News enlisted an NFL team’s director of pro personnel to rank and analyze the top 20 backs based on those criteria:
I just don’t understand how someone who put up 2,000+ yards of total offense last year ranks 16 based on this criteria? This guy has speed, power, durability and versatility. Looks like I have to write another hateful email to another sports media idiot.
Looking through the article it looks like this guy has a major bias based on the size of the RB. Chris Johnson is shorter than ideal, Steven Jackson and Ronnie Brown are big, Marion Barber is big, Rashard Mendenhall as well.
by RulingWalnut on Jul 20, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on those criteria
I guess thats why he fell to the Ravens in the second round of the ’08 draft. No problem, the Ravens and little Ray get the last laugh.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
He completely pulled an article out of his ass when his deadline was past due.
He lists durability as criteria yet Jacobs and Brown are high as hell on the list.
The versatility is the one that kills me the most. How does a guy like Jacobs who only runs straight up the middle have more versatility than Rice who led all RB in receiving last season?
I've said before, I'll say again...
This should be a real breakout year for Rice. Looking at what he did last year, and still saying he could break out more this year is lofty. At one point I was thinking 1000+ rushing/ 1000ish receiving, seeing as he is a perfect fit for the old LT role in Cam’s offense, but…
With the addition of Boldin, and the addition of two solid receiving TE’s, I could see that total being less. Perhaps he foresees more downfield attempts to take away from Rice, and more checkdowns to TE’s as opposed to HB’s.
I’m just guessing at his logic, but even with that said, I think that’s still too low for Rice this year.
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
— Charles Bukowski
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 21, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
He's versatile
He can pull a hammie, tweak a knee, strain his shouldren, AND run up the middle for 3.2 yards per carry.
I wonder why people keep thinking that donte stallworth automatically gets the
third wideout spot (hmmmm) I do beleive he has to prove himself still and earn his spot on the depth chart. I would say that Donte Stallworth have competition with Mark Clayton,Justin Harper, Demetrius Williams,Earon Riley, and Marcus Smith. The only widoeuts that have a most sure top spot is Boldin and Mason
The coaches have made us believe it’s Stallworth spot to lose from their comments in OTAs. The only guy that could really take his spot would be Reed. We know what the rest of those guys bring, and it isn’t much.
What is it
that the coaches have been saying to make everyone so sure Stallworth is #3?
They say the empty can rattles the most...
When the coaches and players talk about the new WRs, everyone is giving off the impression it’s Boldin, Mason, then Stallworth. The rest is up for grabs. Go to teams website and listen to and / or read through OTA transcripts.
No, no, Blitz, you missed the point!
The reason I asked the question was so I wouldn’t HAVE to go and dig up the information myself ;-)
Gah-lee!
They say the empty can rattles the most...
I am sick of Clayton
Good guy, but def wasn’t worth a first round pick. We messed up on that one.
by bloodwatermission on Jul 20, 2010 7:22 PM EDT reply actions
better than some people taken around him, but worse than many too. he is middle of the pack for the WR taken in the top 2 rounds that year.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 20, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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