ESPN's Organizational ranking based on 25-and-under talent: AFCN
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 16, 2010 1:14 PM EDT
Email
PrintWe fared well. Here are the blurbs on the division. Clearly ESPN agrees with us that we have alot more young talent than the Steelers.
19. Pittsburgh Steelers
The Steelers do a better job of developing their young talent than most any team in the game, but there's just not a lot here to work with right now. Their 2008 draft was a huge disappointment by anyone's standards, yielding only Rashard Mendenhall and Dennis Dixon. Wide receiver Mike Wallace is number one on our Top 25 Prospects list, but the team will need to also get a contribution out of the two guys they chose before Wallace during the 2009 draft: defensive end Ziggy Hood and tackle Kraig Urbik. Hood may need to take over for Aaron Smith if the veteran end suffers another injury this year and, while Urbik could be in line to start at guard, there's a possibility he'd start in the stead of injured tackle Willie Colon, but it seems more likely he'd switch over on the line.
8. Cleveland Browns
How could the Browns -- a league laughingstock -- be so high? For one, they have football's best offensive lineman in 25-year-old left tackle Joe Thomas. Center Alex Mack is also promising. They may very well start two second-year wideouts in Mohamed Massaquoi and Brian Robiskie, who should complement each other well. Second-round pick Montario Hardestyshould contribute a fair amount to the ground attack. They also have a young cornerback tandem that could rank as one of the league's best as early as 2011: Eric Wright and rookieJoe Haden, with Sheldon Brown tutoring Haden this year. The one thing the defense lacks is a young pass-rusher, a role the organization hopes barely ineligible linebacker Chris Gocong, 26, can fill after moving over from Philadelphia in the Brown trade.
6. Cincinnati Bengals
Although the Texans have the league's best crop of impact defensive talent, the Bengals sure come close. They have a big three of 25-and-under talent in middle linebacker Rey Maualuga, weakside linebacker Keith Rivers and cornerback Leon Hall -- who was jobbed on a Pro Bowl spot last year. The problem is that there's not much young talent on the offensive side of the ball; 2009 first-rounder Andre Smith will move into a starting role this year, but he'll take a job away from the only other 25-and-under guy who could start,Anthony Collins. The only other young player expected to play any sort of role on the offense is rookie tight end Jermaine Gresham, and rookie tight ends are usually an invisible species. The Bengals will need to address the offensive side of the ball with a multitude of picks in the 2011 draft.
4. Baltimore Ravens
Ozzie Newsome is the best general manager in football, and year after year, his drafts deliver promising new players to an organization that seems to have more talent than opportunities. Although the Ravens are known for their defense, it's the offense that has most of the team's young talent these days. Joe Flacco and Ray Rice get the headlines at quarterback and running back, respectively, but no team has a pair of young tackles that match up with Michael Oher and Jared Gaither, both 24. The problem with the defensive talent might just be getting on the field; the Ravens spent their two second-rounders this year on front seven talent, linebacker Sergio Kindle and massive nose tackle Terrence Cody, but those guys will need to serve their apprenticeships before seeing serious snap totals. One player who might break through this season is corner Lardarius Webb, who is coming off of a torn ACL but should be starting by the end of the season.
And they didn't even include Ellerbe, McClain Nakamura, Zbikowski, Yanda, Kruger, and the rookie TE's. Plus Ngata, Foxworth, Grubbs who are all newly 26 years old. Plus, we are the highest ranked of any playoffs teams, with the only other playoff team in the top 10 being Cincinnati.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?page=FootballOutsiders2010OrganizationalRankings
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
276 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I can't tell you how many fans of other teams have lashed out on me when I would make a statement like this
Ozzie Newsome is the best general manager in football
Glad someone else finally did, especially ESPN.
Ravens have always been the #1 team for producing talent that go to other teams. We have lost more players to big contracts than any other team over the last 10 years, causing us to also get the most compensatory picks during that time as well. Ozzie is a god, yea yea, we already know this ESPN.
It's ESPN...
The kings of doing lackadaisical and half-assed research. If he really was the best in football you would think he would have a SB to show for it in 8 seasons. Or at least consistently win the AFC North title.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We needed to have a decent QB to win consistently. Now we will. (I’m not saying SB’s every year, but we’ll be contenders.)
And you've won the AFC North 0 times with Flacco
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s the first ever QB to win a playoff game in his first two years. Playoff wins > AFC North title.
Indeed.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Heaven. Now arriving, the Boss, George Steinbrenner, the Boss.
RIP Bob Sheppard 1910-2010 and RIP George Steinbrenner 1930-2010
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Except Ben won the SB
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Road playoff win
was what Flacco has one but not Ben, as a rookie, much less two road playoff wins in first year, and three in first two years. Great numbers, but still need the ring!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Not what he asked.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Heaven. Now arriving, the Boss, George Steinbrenner, the Boss.
RIP Bob Sheppard 1910-2010 and RIP George Steinbrenner 1930-2010
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Both went to the AFC Title game. Bad argument.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Really
The Steelers carried Ben to the AFC title game, and Joe carried the Ravens to the AFC title game. Ben didn’t need to be good, he had other good talent surrounding him to where he could play adequately and still win games. Joe on the other hand had an old team with depleted WRs and a FB as our premiere back in 2008. Flacco is just as good if not better than Ben.
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Zachary Beard on Jul 17, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
How did Flacco carry them?
He was awful in Miami. 9 for 23. And he wasn’t exactly stellar against Tennessee. Your defense had a much better impact on that game than Flacco.
How do you figure Flacco is “just as good” if not better than Ben? Ben had the highest QB rating of any rookie QB ever. Nearly a full 20 higher than ya boy. And even in his second season it was 10 higher than Flacco’s. And oh yeah…Ben won his team the AFCCG and then the superbowl. So how is Flacco better?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 18, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
a numbers guy like you wouldn't know
just by looking at the box score. But Flacco led the drive, including a huge pass to get us in the redzone, that ended in a touchdown that won the game against the Titans. I’ll give you Miami—he wasn’t particularly good and Suggs sealed that game shut with a pick six. But the Titans were a tougher opponent on an even bigger stage and Flacco stepped up way more than anyone expected a rookie QB to do.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
There’s alot that goes into winning a Super Bowl… much more than simple personnel management. Using Super Bowl victories to judge general managers is retarded. Would you consider the Mickey Loomis to be better than Ozzie Newsome? Well, why not? The Saints won the Super Bowl last season. Ozzie Newsome hasn’t won a Super Bowl in eight seasons, so Loomis must be awesome.
Well if you want to extrapolate my point that way…you can. But it is not what I was saying. I am saying if he was the single best GM in football. To be the best you would have to imagine that the team would have won, or even gone to, a Superbowl after 8 years in the position. He hasn’t. He has not even managed to have a team that wins the division more often than not. How is he better than Kevin Colbert? Or Bill Polian of the Colts? Or Scott Pioli when he was with the Pats? Can you give me a reason definitively why he is better than those guys? They are consistently good and have won championships with the caliber of players they have acquired.
Again, I am not saying he isn’t a good GM, just not the best. I believe those 3 are better.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
you do have a point. But under Billick, I don’t think you can name a team that has done less with more than the Ravens. Take 2007 for example. We played an abysmal season but still took that Pats team down to the wire, showing you the talent that was hidden there behind crappy coaching. Billick’s superbowl, in a way, set us back because it’s so hard to bring yourself to fire a superbowl winning coach. But after it became painfully obvious that he couldn’t put together back-to-back winning seasons, we fired him. Since then, we have two winning seasons and playoff wins in both seasons.
Again I’m not happy that we haven’t won more superbowls in this decade because I believe we could have—particularly in 2006. But the GM just makes the team. He doesn’t coach it and he doesn’t play the games.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
and Bill Polian has just as many superbowl wins this decade as we do, and he had the luxury of picking first overall in a draft with Peyton Manning in it.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Bill Polisam was the GM when the team won the SB. Newsome was not named GM until 2002.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 18, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
*Polian
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 18, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Why Ozzie is better than Polian and Pioli
Polian always fielded a contender, but he had the luxury of a guy name Peyton Manning. Pioli had the luck to stumble on Tom Brady. Their other picks are their legacy, so we will evaluate their other picks to see whether they are really good GM’s. IMO, if Ozzie had either Peyton or Brady, we would have 3-5 championships easily.
Polian: starting back in 2008, since we cannot effectively grade the 2009 and 2010 drafts:
2008: 9 picks, 2 starters (Pollack, Wheeler), 3 backups (Garcon, Santi, Hart)
2007: 9 picks, 2 starters (Session, Gonzalez), 2 backups (Ugoh, Dawson)
2006: 7 picks, 2 starters (Bethea, Addai), 0 backups
2005: 10 picks, 2 starters (Hayden, Jackson), 0 backups
2004: 9 picks, 1 starter (Sanders), 0 backups
2003: 9 picks, 3 starters (Clark, Mathis, June), 2 backups (Strickland, Doss)
2002: 8 picks, 2 starters (Freeney, Thornton), 1 backup (Triplett)
2001: 7 picks, 1 starter (Wayne), 0 backups
The guy is basically very good in the first 2 rounds, but after that he hit on like 1/15th of his picks. Most of his mid-to-late rounders are busts or guys who flame out after a year or 2. Contrast that with Ozzie, who pulls starters and pro-bowlers out of the middle rounds on a regular basis. So no contest!
Pioli:
2008: 7 picks, 1 starter (Mayo), 3 backups (Wheatley, Crable Wilhite)
2007: 9 picks, 1 starter (Meriweather), 0 backups
2006: 10 picks, 2 starters (Maroney, Gostowski), 0 backups
2005: 7 picks, 2 starters (Mankins, Cassel), 3 backups (Kaczur, Hobbs, Sanders)
2004: 8 picks, 2 starters (Wilfork, Watson), 0 starters
2003: 10 picks, 4 starters (Warren, Samuel, Banta-Cai, Wilson), 1 backup (Klecko)
2002: 6 picks, 2 starters (Branch, Graham), 0 backups
2001: 10 picks, 2 starters (Seymour, Light), 1 backup (Jones)
So we see neither the Colts or NE have better GM’s are snagging steals in the middle rounds. They are both very successful in the early rounds, and had the benefit of stud QB’s and great coaches to lead them to super bowl’s.
Some references for Ozzie’s mid-to-late round magic:
http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2009/4/11/830759/ravens-gm-newsome-shines-on-drafts
http://sportschatplace.com/nfl/editorials/25125-the-wizard-of-oz-what-will-ozzie-newsome-do-next.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/353324-2010-nfl-draft-ranking-the-top-five-drafting-organizations-in-the-nfl#page/6
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 18, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
i can’t believe i didnt get even one comment on this well researched comment. it is almost enough to be an article!
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
i thought it went without saying that this was the greatest comment ever.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
You shouldn’t do something just to be rewarded for it…
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Zachary Beard on Jul 22, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was common knowledge.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Jul 27, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Only correction: Urbick is strictly a guard, and has worked out at center as well...
But he has as much of a shot at starting at tackle as I do. Slow feet, and hasn’t shown much of anything in camp workouts. Then again, this is a new year. No mention of Pouncey?
Anyone arguing that the Steelers have more young projected talent than the Ravens is living under a rock. Youth is our biggest weakness right now, and we keep getting older. There are players that Steelers fans look at with high hopes, but not many are poised to make an early impact like your guys.
You failed to mention Jordan Shipley, who should contribute to the Bengals offense in some way, also Bernard Scott, who may end up starting should Benson be suspended for his incident a few weeks ago. Also look out for Michael Johnson, who is making the switch to linebacker this year, and should see some pass rush duties.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Heaven. Now arriving, the Boss, George Steinbrenner, the Boss.
RIP Bob Sheppard 1910-2010 and RIP George Steinbrenner 1930-2010
I don’t think I’d argue we have more youth than the Ravens, but I don’t think we are far off from them. A lot of these reports never even mention players like Sunny Harris and Keenan Lewis. Not too add the article completely overlooks our entire draft this year and then boasts about the Ravens draft.
We still have a QB in the middle of his career, a young RB, a top prospect young WR, 3 young DL prospects, 3 or 4 young DB prospects, and a ton of young OLBs. We aren’t where I wish we could be with youth in starting roles…like ILB, S, and OL, but those will come along.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't agree...
The Ravens roster, with the exception of Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Matt Birk and Terrell Suggs are across the board all younger than ours at the same positions, and are playing now.
Sunny Harris and Keenan Lewis have done nothing at the NFL level (although both have looked good in practice), and with the exception of Timmons and Woodley, we don’t have anyone defensively who looks poised to play for years. We have some youth offensively, but besides Wallace and Mendenhall, there isn’t much there either. Yes, Ben is younger and Heath has plenty of years left, and our line is fairly young as well (we’ve seen them play), but after that… not so much.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Heaven. Now arriving, the Boss, George Steinbrenner, the Boss.
RIP Bob Sheppard 1910-2010 and RIP George Steinbrenner 1930-2010
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 16, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He is a different type of player
Ngata is probably stronger, but I think Ziggy has a better motor.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I just cannot agree
Youth is not always the end all be all. Experience is just as important. For next year, I’d take our older Harrison over any of their OLB, Ike Taylor over any of their young DBs, Polamalu over any of their S, Ben over Flacco, Aaron Smith/Keisel over their DL, Ward over Boldin. Then when I couple that with the young talent we do have, we are just fine.
I really am not that concerned about our age. We still have about 3 seasons before we get have to start replacing people. Within those 3 years we will have 2 more drafts and the last 2 drafts to develop. The only one I am uncomfortable with for this year is ILB (and RT, but that has more to do with injury). Otherwise, I think Smith and Keisel have 2/3 years left, Harrison has 2, Hampton 2, Ward 2, Clark 1 or 2 depending on Burnett, Ike and McFadden 2 or 3, Ben, Heath, Timmons, Woodley, Polamalu 5+.
Anyway, I think as long as we have Ben behind center and LeBeau running the defense we will always be near the top of the AFC North barring major injuries like last year (where we still ended up only a game short of being in the POs). Agree to disagree I guess
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 16, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
For next year, I’d take our older Harrison over any of their OLB, Ike Taylor over any of their young DBs, Polamalu over any of their S, Ben over Flacco, Aaron Smith/Keisel over their DL, Ward over Boldin.
Well of course you would, you are a fan of the Steelers. Everything is the other way around for us Ravens fans.
Aaron Smith/Keisel over Ngata? you must be smoking something strong.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 18, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Not at all. Ngata might have better physical skills, but as far as knowing how the position is played in his defensive scheme, I think there is no better DE than Aaron Smith. He has been a lynch pin to a continuously tremendous run stopping team, but still able to get after the QB when needed. He is the smartest DE I’ve seen play.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
— Charles Bukowski
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 21, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
Perhaps I should obstain. I am smoking something strong.
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
— Charles Bukowski
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 21, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
speechless
but okay
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
smart does not equal skill. Michael Jordan is the most skillful player ever, but no one would take him at age 40 over Kobe or Lebron or even Joe Johnson.
At this age, Aaron Smith might be smart, but Ngata’s combination of smarts and skills make him the clear cut choice over Smith. In their primes, maybe some would go with Smith (I wouldn’t, but i hear the argument), but in 2010 its no contest
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Smith is not 40 (Jordan is actually 47) and 7 years separated from playing. What a horrible argument.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah that's not a good argument
but neither is yours. You just sitting there saying “well I think Smith is the smartest player I’ve ever seen play the DE position” would be a lot like me saying “Woodley might be more athletic and be a better pass rusher, but Jarrett Johnson plays the position with an intelligence that I’ve never seen before.” Sounds a little arbitrary doesn’t it? Woodley is obviously better than Johnson, so I’m not going to say something like that, even though I do think Johnson is a very smart OLB and one of the more underrated players in this league. Same for Smith. I think he’s obviously a very good player and his loss was felt last year, but Ngata is blatantly the superior DLinemen in this division, if not the league.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Blatantly superior? How do you figure that? That sounds arbitrary.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Ngata is 345 pounds of almost pure muscle who is so athletic that Rex Ryan used to drop him back into zone coverage. Ray Lewis’ worst season was the year before we drafted Ngata, and since then you can see the evidence of him wreaking havoc. There’s a reason Haloti is quickly becoming a more recognized name in the NFL.
Smith, on the other hand, is a great player in his own right, but I’ve never heard someone argue that he’s the best DLinemen in the league. You got guys like Warren Sapp and Jamie Dukes talking about Haloti like that. So it’s not arbitrary.
Now can you respond to what I wrote? How is Smith “so much smarter” than Ngata?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I’ve seen Casey Hampton drop into coverage, that does not really prove anything. The Steelers D Line had one of its worst years last year against short yardage and 3rd/4th down conversion rates, primarily because of the inability to get a push at the line. There is no coincidence that this happened when Aaron Smith went down last year.
How does one prove that a player is smarter? I cannot. I do know that Smith just always seems to be in the right place, never fails a gap assignment, and knows when he can take a shot at the QB. Maybe that is because he knows the playbook better, has played longer, etc, but he just does his job better than anyone I have ever seen.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
First of all, I’m not going to contest the intelligence argument. But where I think you go astray is by arguing that because of his intelligence he’s better than Haloti. What about Haloti is less intelligent? Can you recall a single time Haloti got his gap blown up? Child PLEASE!
I recognize what a lynch pin he is for Pittsburgh, but our DLine would suffer WAY more than yours if we lost Haloti. Like I said before, people are starting to talk about him like he’s the best lineman in the league. They don’t say that stuff about Smith. (And we still have to see if he can be the same after that injury.)
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I never argued because of his intelligence he was better, I was arguing because of his intelligence I would take him over Ngata for my team next year. Also, you don’t know if your DLine would struggle without him. The Steelers unfortunately know it did struggle without Smith.
And who cares about people like Warren Sapp? That guy is an idiot. Those are the same guys who never give Ben any respect when they rank their QBs. I put little stock in what they say. Also, I believe Sapp took nearly every team the Steelers played against in the 2008 POs. I hate that guy
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I said before, people are starting to talk about him like he’s the best lineman in the league. They don’t say that stuff about Smith.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81928f3f/Best-in-the-biz-Defensive-Tackle
Johnny and Jackmca, both you please watch that video. You will see who was chosen as the BEST DL in the league. And this is not coming from analyst who you want to disagree with all the time, this is coming from Jeff Saturday of the Colts, who is one of the best and most respected Centers in the league. This should tell you just how good Ngata is. Hands down, the best DL in the league. No argument.
Jeff Saturday would go against Casey Hampton and not Aaron Smith.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Well Ngata is our starting DE, so he is going up against the team’s Guards and Tackles, so Saturday knows something.
A center more than likely faces the NT against a 3-4. He probably has not faced Smith in many battles at all.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nor has he faced Kevin Williams, but he had him up there too…
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Just saying, if he hasn’t played against all of them consistently, its not the end all be all of rankings.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen Casey Hampton drop into coverage, that does not really prove anything.
This was funny. Ngata dropping into coverage does prove something, and you know it. You have seen him drop back to the safety spot and intercept your boy Ben.
Let me just say this
If the Steelers front 3 was Ngata, Hampton, and Kiesel, you’d be a lock for the best defense in the NFL. A LOCK. Not best defensive line, but best defense. With Smith, especially coming back from that injury, you can be expected to perform well, but you’re FAR from a lock for that title.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
That is a big assumption
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Intelligence overcomes injury and physical ability. When you make Albert Einstein look like I Am Sam like AaronSmith does, nothing else matters.
Aaron Smith is the Shaun Rogers of intelligence.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
That or a chocolate-Vanilla swirl…
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Zachary Beard on Jul 22, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The statement itself isn’t arbitrary, but the metric he uses to defend it might be.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
It is definitely an arbitrary statement.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I just explained my Ngata>Smith statement, so it’s not arbitrary anymore. But you haven’t explained your Smith>Ngata statement, so we’re waiting on that.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I never said it made them better than us...
I just said they were younger, which they are.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Heaven. Now arriving, the Boss, George Steinbrenner, the Boss.
RIP Bob Sheppard 1910-2010 and RIP George Steinbrenner 1930-2010
by NYSteelersFan4 on Jul 17, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
heinous that you’d take Hines Ward over Boldin
by TurtlePower88 on Jul 19, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
its good that he says these things
because it lets us know not to put too much stock into what he says.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Really? How so?
I think Ward is a much, much better route runner. 30 times better blocker. And he never quits like I have seen Boldin do.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with every sentence in your comment. Your starting to sound like a Browns’ fan.
I think that Ward is a poor-man’s Boldin at this point in his career.
You really think that Boldin is a better blocker than Ward? That is comical. He has never played on a team that required him to block sufficiently.
And I have seen Boldin quit in games. You can disagree with that all you want, but you are wrong.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Hines Ward is 34 years old. He was the best blocking (and cheap shot) wide receiver I’ve ever seen, but at this point in their careers, I’d take Boldin, who is also infamous for his blocking abilities. I don’t think it’s “comical” to compare one of the most physical, blocking receivers of today to a great blocking receiver that’s on his way out of the league. There’s no way that Ward is “30 times” better at blocking than Boldin. That is comical.
Also, I’d like to see an example of Boldin quitting games. Give me an clip… a source… a quote from a coach or teammate… anything regarding Boldin quitting on the field. I’m calling you out on this because I think that you’re full of crap and have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
If anything, Boldin is one of the most competitive, fiery and motivated receivers I’ve ever seen. Even before he came to Baltimore, he was my favorite receiver in the NFL for those attributes. I’ve had him on my fantasy league for the last three seasons because I enjoy watching him play and have watched him play many, many times. I have never seen him quit… ever. He epitomizes the competitiveness that I believe all NFL players should have.
I was watching Boldin play when he took that hit from Eric Smith while playing the Jets in 2008. Most people have seen that play, but what they do not realize is that the Cardinals were losing that game 56-35. The entire Cardinals team had given up except Warner and Boldin. I remember because Boldin had most of his receptions, including the attempted touchdown catch where he took that vicious hit, in the fourth quarter because he was the only one still playing hard and trying to make plays.
Boldin was still playing hard, laying out and exposing himself in the end-zone for the ball. Furthermore, the Cardinals were down by 21 points with only 27 seconds left, everyone knew that the ball was going to Boldin, but he still kept fighting and running at full speed on every play. He could have given up… or heck, stopped playing with reckless abandon, but he didn’t because he’s the most competitive and fiery receiver I’ve ever seen.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 21, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Ohh, since you had him on your fantasy team, you must be the expert on Boldin. You should have told me that ahead of time.
Ward is 34, thanks. Do you want to list any more ages of Steelers players that I already know? Why is it that any time blocking as a WR is mentioned that Ward is automatically brought up? I have never heard anyone talk about Boldin in the same breath as Ward as far as blocking goes, except for you. Please show me any proof that Boldin is an elite blocking WR. I’m calling you out on this one, because I think that you’re full of crap and that having someone on your fantasy team does not mean they are the best thing since sliced bread. Seriously, having him on your fantasy team? That was the stupidest thing I have heard in awhile. Guess what…you are not the only one who has seen football games outside of your own team.
And I am supposed to be impressed about Boldin and Warner racking up stats in a game that was already lost? Wow. Impressive. His stat gathering adventure injury could have really hurt their playoff hopes had they been in a tougher division. You see a player still going hard, I see a player just trying to garner stats and thinking about “me”.
How does one prove someone quit in a game? I know I’ve seen Terrell Owens do it, but I couldn’t prove that either.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
“You see a player still going hard, I see a player just trying to garner stats and thinking about "me".”
So he was supposed to give up with the team, to be a team player….. That makes no sense.
Down 21 with 27 seconds left. You really think that is someone “going hard” and not garnering stats?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The other option is quit on the team, which you were just giving him crap for. You can’t have it both ways.
That is like saying the QB who takes a knee in that situation is quitting on his team. Getting an injury in insignificant minutes is more detrimental to your team.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
No, it’s not like saying that at all.
Should the LT give up on the play too, so he doesn’t get injured….
If Kurt Warner is dropping back to pass and risking injury, everyone else better be at least trying.
You’re making an nonsensical arguement. He should quit sometimes, and then faulting him for quitting.
Should the LT give up on the play too, so he doesn’t get injured….
Point me to a time that the Chargers were giving carries to LT with 27 seconds left down by 21. If he is still running hard early in the 4th, I would understand.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Going over the middle is a lot more likely to get you injured than doing routine blocking.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not arguing anyone should give up. Just that a player should realize the importance of future games over collecting stats in a certain loss. Ya know, think about the team before yourself kind of thing.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Johnny-
Sometimes it seems like your brain fell out your butt crack when someone says a player is better than one of your beloved steelers.
The only thing he said about fantasy is that he liked Boldin so much when he was on the cardinals, he drafted him on his fantasy team 3 years in a row.
His point is that he would rather have a 31 year old Boldin than a 34 year old Ward. 95% of the league would agree with him. you are just a homer, so you don’t. Deal with it!
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Your brain always seems like it is your butt crack.
He was stating that he had him in his fantasy league and has seen him play many times to get forth the point that he is the “expert” on Boldin.
His point is that he would rather have a 31 year old Boldin than a 34 year old Ward. 95% of the league would agree with him. you are just a homer, so you don’t. Deal with it!
How is this any different than you all arguing Ray Lewis is the best ILB/MLB in the league? At least I am not saying he is the best WR, just that he is a better blocker and route runner than Boldin and that is why I’d rather have him.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
People here are obviously partial to Ray Lewis, but some of that is deserved since he is obviously one of the top 5 linebackers ever, if not the best. Hines Ward doesn’t even flirt with that type of company in the Wide Receiver pantheon.
Johnny I know Rayisyourdaddy insulted you, which isn’t the best way to start an argument, but you’d do yourself a favor by not stooping to his level in your response. First you go off saying you’d take Smith over Ngata and Ward over Boldin, and then you start getting pissy in your responses. It gets harder to take you seriously.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
If someone makes a comment like that, I am going to fire back.
People here are obviously partial to Ray Lewis, but some of that is deserved since he is obviously one of the top 5 linebackers ever, if not the best. You should be using the word ‘was’, that is my point. He is not the best ILB/MLB in the league now, yet the majority of you would take him over younger players. Why?
Hines Ward will never be one of the statistically best WRs in the league. But he is the best rounded WR in the league, who still blocks like it his primary task on the field. Those things do not get written down in stat books, and it is what it is. Even with all of that and his age, Ward still put up more yards per game than Boldin last year. Yet some how, in your eyes, he is drastically better because Ward is “old”.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Cross out should been a quote, miss-clicked.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d personally say Pat Willis is the best in the league right now, and at least a few people would agree with that. But if you’re agreeing with me that it’s hard for a Ravens fan to justify taking a mid-30s Ray over a Willis in his prime, then perhaps you can feel me that it doesn’t quite make sense to take a mid-30s Ward over a Boldin who still has some prime left him him as well.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Except that Patrick Willis is 10 years younger than Lewis. Boldin is only 5 years younger. And the fact that speed has never been a part of Ward’s game makes my point valid (i.e. coming off one of his best years just last year).
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
we’re talking about an aging star versus a star in his prime. This bears comparison, even if Boldin is closer to Ward’s age than Willis is to Lewis.
Put it like this. If by some strange occurrence, the Ravens acquired Hines Ward, would the Rod Woodsons and Warren Sapps be talking about it like the “missing link” that would now make the Ravens a superbowl contender? I don’t think they would. But that has been the reaction to the Boldin acquisition.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Bottom line is, Ray is still top 5 ILB in the league. Would I take him over the other 4? No, because they are younger. But when we are talking about for 2010, he is still better than the rest of the league and I would take him over them regardless of age. You are saying you would take Ward over Boldin, even though he is currently a worse WR because you are a homer.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
How is he a worse WR? Because of his more yards, yards per game, more TDs last year than Boldin?
Nice argument.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Johnny, you went and attacked Bal Hawk without actually responding to what he said. You’re talking out of your ass.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I attacked him?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
that was a pretty sarcastic rebuttal. not that you’re not entitled to it, but why not state directly what your point is like we’re trying to do?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Probably because of this sentence:
I’m calling you out on this because I think that you’re full of crap and have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
so its that easy to fluster you on a sports blog? I don’t want to know what its like talking to you in person.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I’m not flustered. I just don’t calmly greet Ravens fans who are being hostile with me.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
sarcasm and vitriolic, baseless comments are more your style. I see.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I like how you tried to come in and be the mediator…then you jumped right into it. Consistency fail.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I’ll admit that I failed on the consistency there. I’ve clearly taken sides. Now can you admit when you’re clearly wrong?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Sure, once I am, I will let you know.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re ridiculous.
You said that Ward was a 30 times better a blocker than Ward. That’s a ridiculous, unsubstantiated comment. I realize that you were exaggerating, but you were basically saying that Ward is a much, much, much better blocker than Boldin. Ward is a great blocker, but so is Boldin. There’s no way that Ward is THAT much better than Boldin at blocking. You can’t really tell me that you’ve watched enough of Boldin to know that Ward is that much better. I’ve watched both receivers enough to know that Ward may be a better blocker but isn’t light-years ahead of Boldin in that department.
I do know alot about Boldin. I’ve watched several documentaries and interviews with him, know all of his statistics and have watched nearly every game that he’s played in over the last three years. What about you? You can deflect this argument by sarcastically making fun of me having him on my FF league, but the point is that you obviously know nothing about him and are just assuming that Ward is better because you know alot about Ward.
To say that Boldin was trying “racking up stats” at the end of that game is just ignorant. The guy plays like that week-in and week-out and is one of the most respected receivers in the game. Even your buddies at BTSC have tons of respect for him. Furthermore, I can actually prove all that with game clips, documentares, coach and player quotes and interviews. “You can disagree with that all you want, but you are wrong.”
You made a stupid, full-of-crap comment and now you’re too proud to admit it. If we were making similar, unsubstantiated statements about Steelers players over at BTSC, you would reem us out like there’s no tomorrow, but since you’re you and believe that you couldn’t possibly have an illogical or emotional thought, you’re over here back-peddaling in an argument that anyone reading can see is completely ridiculous on your end. You should just shut-up, admit that you made a stupid, illogical comment and drop this ridiculous argument. Everyone here would have more respect for you if you did.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 22, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
fantastic
Hawk, if you get a minute, could you do one of these “logic bombs” on the Smith vs. Ngata debate?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I have great respect for Aaron Smith, who I believe is a prototypical five-technique defensive lineman.
I think Ngata plays with unparalleled strength but struggles to get penetration like a prototypical five-technique lineman because he’s so wide. Ngata is a better fit in the Ravens system because he allows them to shift between 2-5 man fronts with ease. I don’t know who’s smarter… I haven’t analyzed Smith’s play closely enough. I know that Ngata plays with great awareness but does need to take better angles at times.
I go to the bars to watch the games on Sunday and get to see mostly every game. The Cardinals have been one of my “watch” teams because of Fitzgerald and Warner, so I believe my pee stream travels just as far as yours in this “measuring” competition.
I’m not back pedaling. I still think Ward is a lot better of a blocker than Boldin. And you really have not proven otherwise, except for finally realizing that the “30” was an exaggeration.
I think you believe I am saying Boldin is not a good WR, which I am not. Half the things you are saying and linking are irrelevant to the argument of him being a blocker. I have respect for Boldin, but I think it is a joke to consider that he is as good as a blocker as Ward ever was and is.
The more you tell me to shut up, makes me want to keep commenting.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not arguing about the whole blocking thing or trying to prove anything. I would only take Boldin over Ward because I believe Boldin is more physical at this point. It’s a toss-up in my opinion, and I can accept the fact that most people believe Ward is better. My only contention was when you said that Ward is “30 times” better than Boldin at blocking. I realize that you were exaggerating, but you were basically saying that Ward is a much, much, much better blocker than Boldin. There’s just no way Ward is THAT much better, but that’s not the point of this whole argument.
You can try deflecting to the blocking argument if you want, but the point is that you said Boldin quits in games. That’s what I called you out on, and you still haven’t addressed those comments. You don’t seem to want to own up to them. That’s fine. You can make comments and then not back them up if you want too… that would explain alot about your “logic.”
The point is that Boldin is considered one of the toughest, most-competitive and respected receivers in the league. In about 5 minutes on Google, anyone could find hundreds of articles, videos, interviews and quotes by coaches and players to back up this fact. Therefore (and again), your comments regarding Boldin quitting in games were ignorant, ridiculous, unsubstantiated and illogical. Either you back them up by providing quotes from coaches or players, video clips, interviews… whatever, or take them back. At the very least, you should stop making the argument.
If you google searched best blocking WR whose name do you think you find? I did it and came up with a lot of Hines Ward and not a single Anquan Boldin. I say “30 times” because I do not believe that Boldin would be in the top 10 and Ward would be #1.
As far as me saying Boldin is a quitter, I am not going to take them back. Primarily because I have never seen someone get this worked up over a football player on their team. Its like you think he is your little brother or something. The only specific memory I have is in the 2008 SB. It seemed like after the 3rd he just laid down and expected Fitzgerald to take over. How can I prove that? I can’t. You can’t see something like that in the highlights. But it was clear our secondary was burnt late in that game and Boldin didn’t get more than like a 5 yard reception late.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s worked up because someone could so enthusiastically stand behind such a baseless comment as “Boldin is a quitter.” And to back that up, all you could come up with was, “It seemed like…” Yeah okay. Whatever you say chief. Everyone in the country watched that superbowl and you’re the only guy I’ve ever heard who said he got that impression.
At least we know the sort of criteria that goes into forming an opinion for Johnny now.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
That is because the entire country is not watching the guy without the ball. And typically the entire country watches the SB once (about 50% for just commercials). I watched that game about 10 times, and I saw what I saw.
I would assume that most people form an opinion based on things they see.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009020100/2008/POST21/steelers@cardinals#tab:analyze/recap-channels:cat-post-recap-full-story/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay
Starting at 2:11 to go in the third quarter (the last full drive which went into the fourth quarter), Boldin caught three passes for 22 yards, not including another catch for 13 yards that was wiped out by a penalty (holding on an OT, I believe). 37.5% of his receptions occurred in the last 28-29% of the game, accounting for just over 26% of his yards; since he had one catch earlier in the game that made up over half of his total yardage, having 26% of his yards occur in the last 17 minutes of the game is still pretty strong.
Numbers don’t lie and that is why I have a healthy obsession with stats.
That’s from your profile, and I happen to agree (mostly). I think the stats here show that Boldin’s play in the last stretch of the Super Bowl compared very favorably with what he did earlier in the game.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 22, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Starting at 2:11 to go in the third quarter
It seemed like after the 3rd
1 catch for 6 yards. That is it in the 4th. Meanwhile Fitzgerald had 6 for 100+ and 2 TDs. Let’s not talk about his 3 catches in the 3rd when I clearly said AFTER the 3rd.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
1 catch for 6 yards. That is it in the 4th.
“(5:28) (Shotgun) 13-K.Warner pass short right to 81-A.Boldin pushed ob at ARZ 36 for 11 yards (24-I.Taylor). PENALTY on PIT-24-I.Taylor, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at ARZ 36.”
I think you missed one. That was catch eight-of-eight for Boldin.
Let’s not talk about his 3 catches in the 3rd when I clearly said AFTER the 3rd.
I mentioned one third quarter catch that happened at 0:58 to go. I included that in the above analysis because it was part of a drive that wrapped into the fourth quarter, which seemed like a logical cutoff point to me. I don’t recognize your arbitrary sometime-after-the-third delineation as a valid time point.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
So 2 catches for 17 yards again compared to 6 for 100+ and 2 TDs when all they were doing was passing and the secondary was worn out and tired. That is not what I call fierce in the “game of his life”.
After the 3rd is not a vague time frame. It means after the whistle for the 3rd blows. Since those catches you referenced refer to time before the whistle, clearly they don’t count.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude.
Fitzgerald might be the best receiver in the league. it’s not Boldin’s fault that Fitz exploded for those massive 4th quarter numbers.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Ok
Both Arrington and Breaston had more yards than Boldin in the 4th, 35 and 36 respectively.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So the only possibility there is that he quit. You think it’s impossible that a good QB like Warner just found other targets?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
You could lean that way if you wanted to.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So 2 catches for 17 yards again compared to 6 for 100+ and 2 TDs
Please see jackmca for an example of how a logical person would look at that.
…the secondary was worn out and tired.
Per your other posts in this thread, I’m going to need to see some stats on their “tiredness,” or it didn’t happen.
After the 3rd is not a vague time frame. It means after the whistle for the 3rd blows.
Until I see somebody other than you say that Boldin gave up in the fourth quarter, I’m inclined to keep the stats for the full drive that started the fourth quarter.
Since those catches you referenced refer to time before the whistle, clearly they don’t count.
You keep using the plural of “catch” when you talk about the stats I used from the third quarter, which is entirely misleading. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
There must be some magical 4th quarter potion that he drank. he was busting his ass in the 3rd quarter, but as soon as the magic whistle blew, he quit on a winnable game and let lesser receivers get more yards than him. Because, you know, everyone is worried about their personal stats in the superbowl.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Statistic proving they were tired? How about 200 yards in the air in the 4th, on a team that allowed less than 170 per game that year.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Roethlisberger had a bad statistical performance in his first superbowl. He must have quit.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
How about 200 yards in the air in the 4th, on a team that allowed less than 170 per game that year.
Sounds like they gave up after the whistle.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
You could definitely make that argument on the long Fitzgerald run
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
also, you said you’ve seen Anquan Boldin “quit in games.” That’s plural, and all you could come up with to back it up was some weak “it seemed like” argument about a superbowl that everyone else watched but nobody else seemed to see what you saw.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Sorry I cannot remember every moment from every game I have seen. My memory is not that of a camcorders.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s good that you can absolve yourself of backing up a statement like “Anquan Boldin quits in games” by just saying you can’t remember everything you’ve seen. You know, I’ve seen Troy Polamalu get run-over multiple times, but my memory isn’t that of a camcorder so I don’t have to back up that claim either.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I did give an example, but apparently you need thousands of them.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
that example failed because we all watched that superbowl too. All of the GMs and sportswriters and commentators in the country watched that game, and you’re the first person who drew that conclusion.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
No… Just more than one that is an opinion that only you seem to hold.
You could also give us video clips, interviews, statistics, quotes from players or coaches… or really anything that has an ounce of logic behind it.
How do you give a statistic for giving up? And what smart coach/teammate is going to say their player/teammate quit on them? So you said we clearly new Randy Moss quit that game? Can you prove that with stats, interview, video clips, quotes?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
if I had the footage of the game
yeah, you can clearly see Randy jogging out his routes. It’s pretty irrefutable. And his teammates had been saying in the weeks prior that “Randy didn’t quit,” to defend him when everyone thought he DID quit. Then, after the Ravens game, they stopped saying those things.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
its normally pretty easy to call out examples of receivers quitting in games. Mostly because everyone talks about it. Like Randy Moss against the Ravens in the playoffs. Or like Travis Taylor’s entire career. You can say you saw them quit, and you won’t run into much trouble, because everyone else saw what you saw.
But by saying Boldin quit, you might as well be saying “Peyton Manning misses a lot of reads,” or “Kevin Williams often loses the battle at the A-Gap.” You can expect people to ask for examples, because they’re not going to have any idea what you’re talking about. And then your credibility with them will suffer in the future.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
He has zero credibility here unless he can backup his comments (unlikely) or swallows his pride and admits that he made a stupid, emotional comment (more unlikely).
Also, I think it’s funny he said that he’s seen Boldin quit in games (plural) but can only remember one game that he actually quit during in.
I say "30 times" because I do not believe that Boldin would be in the top 10 and Ward would be #1.
So let’s hear your list of the 10 best blocking WR in the league. And please give a reason that shows why they are in the top 10. Boldin isn’t on your list because he is a Raven and you know it.
Jeez
this is gonna be worse than those FOX Sports rankings…
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
My guess
1. Heins Ward
2. Andrew Johnson
3. Fitzgerald
4. Wayne
5. Jackson
6. Calvin Johnson
7. Steve Smith
8. Sidney Rice
9. Moss
10. Mike Wallace.
Oh wait, we are talking about the top 10 blocking WR, something that Johnny_S probably does not know shit about outside of his precious Ward.
Ironic that you are commenting on people “not knowing shit”. You tend to be the dumbest of the posters on here.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
not really
MaLoR and Hawk are definitely more well-informed than you are.
You ever notice how we don’t jump on NYSteelerfan like this?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Now, you’re just being rude. That was uncalled for.
We haven’t attacked you personally… only your logic.
Now that is surely a joke.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Since you identify so emotionally with the points you try to make, I can understand how you feel like you’ve been personally attacked.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Saying that a Raven is better than a Steeler in any category is a personal attack to everyone in their fan base.
Sure thing
I think your OL and RB are better than anything we have. Ngata is surely a great player and will around for a lot longer than A Smith. I’d take Boldin, although I’d rather have Ward on my team as long as he is playing like last year.
I think you just see everything as shades of gray
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a joke.
I surely haven’t attacked you personally and am pretty sure that no one else has either. Saying that someone is “the dumbest of the poster on here” is different than saying one of their comments or ideas is dumb.
I thought you and Malor were buddies.
I think that you’re full of crap
Eh?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
referring to the crap you were spewing a minute ago about how Anquan was apparently a quitter.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Now that made me lol
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, that was a little uncalled for…
When I said that you were “full of crap,” I was attacking your logic in my mind. I can see how you’d take that personally. I’m sorry if you did.
Thank you
That is why I got hostile. I apologize for being hostile.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Laughing means you are worked up?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
OH MY GOD SOOOOO WORKED UP I DRANK TOO MANY 5 HOUR ENERGY BECAUSE I WAS AFRAID OF THAT 1:42 PM FEELING
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Ratings by blocking. Boldin comes in at 39th. All 3 Steelers WRs above him and both Breaston and Fitzgerald above him. My top 10 would look like this
1. Ward
2. Reggie Wayne
3. Vincent Jackson
4. Roddy White
5. Steve Smith
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Patrick Clayton
8. Jason Avant
9. Braylon Edwards
10. Santonio Holmes
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, their top 15 has Sam Aiken, Chaz Schilens, Kelly Washington, Jason Avant, and Dwayne Jarret in it. How did they come up with these numbers, ask a 12 year old?
Are you really implying that you know more than PFF? Are you sure you want to make that ignorant comment before reading the mission statement?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
JOhnny
You’re like a guy driving down the road with all the cars coming at him, wondering how everyone else can be so stupid when you’re actually driving up a one-way.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Maybe you all have some point on him quitting. But in the blocking on, you are wrong.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ve conceded that Hines is the better blocker. We’re just not sure there’s such a massive difference as you say there is.
But thank you for being reasonable. I recognize that and appreciate it.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I don't Think Anybody
Here ever hinted at Boldin being a better blocker. We just took umbrage at the suggestion that he is a quitter.
And also, while acknowledged there is a gap in blocking “quals” between Ward and Boldin, I, we, do not believe it is as big of a gap as you think…
they have some arcane blocking statistic. Johnny himself has previously repudiated the use of stats in measuring blocking, on this very thread. So he’s invalidated the only ranking he could come up with.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I said take them with a grain of salt. Never said they were inaccurate. Notice my top 10 doesn’t follow theirs. But it is telling that Ward ranks 2nd and Boldin came in at 39th.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah also very telling that Sam Aiken came in at 3. No idea what it tells me, but it tells me something. What does it tell you? Honestly, I need some help here. What the hell does this list mean?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
and Kelley Washington is a top-10 blocking wide reciever. Hilarious.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
This list says Randy Moss is a better blocker than Anquan Boldin. I thought Randy was philosophically opposed to blocking?
I think we’re done here.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Not since he has been in New England, he has been a decent blocker.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I was half joking
I’ve seen him block before, but Anquan has a reputation for his physicality.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Who even cares about the stupid blocking argument? I don’t really have a problem with people believing that Ward is a better blocker. At least that thought has some logic behind it. He just keeps deflecting to this argument to get the attention off his obviously unfounded and illogical argument about Boldin quitting in games.
Yep
Because we are talking about overall WR skills.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have any arguments against my list? Or are they all against PFF’s blocker ratings?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
but your list IS pff’s blocker ratings…. so i’m confused…
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
It isn’t.
Muhammad
Ward*
Aiken
Cribbs
Schilens
Washington
Jackson*
Meacham
Clayton*
Floyd
Jarret
I starred players in their top 10 that made mine for less confusion for ya (and added an 11th since Muhammad is retired).
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a bad list. You’re not getting laughed out of the room. But even before Q was a Raven, one reason we all wanted him was for his reputation for toughness, evidenced by good blocking. Whether he makes your top ten or not isn’t of huge concern to me. But he shouldn’t be down at 39, that’s for sure.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
that list changes drastically from season to season. Hines was ranked 49th in 2008, and Anquan was ranked 12. In 07, Hines was 5th, and Q was 64. So it fluctuates alot, hard to judge a career based on placement on this list.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
So, your using one game to say that Boldin quits in games and can’t find one other person or source to back you up? Furthermore, it’s only because you think so… because you think that he quit in the Super Bowl? I cannot tell you how narrow minded that is. If that’s all you’ve got, your logic is pathetic. It’s not even worth my time.
Also… You dare ridicule me for using logical thought and expecting you to do the same in our discussions? That’s not going to work. I’m not upset or worked up (In fact, I’ve laughed out loud at some of your retarded statements). I’m just using logic instead of making baseless, unsubstantiated statements about players and then acting like those statements are reality because I said it. Get off your high horse and admit you were wrong.
Run this by a jury of your peers:
A receiver, known around the league for his toughness and never-say-die attitude, quits in the most important game of his life.
See how far you get with that.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
That hasn’t happened before? Did you not watch Lebron James in the Celtics series this year?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
THATS WHY HE HAS BEEN LABELED A QUITTER! Nobody has ever accused Anquan of these things! (except you)
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
He was labeled a quitter by Cleveland fans for leaving Cleveland. And maybe after he left they pointed at that game to justify it.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
for the record
I don’t think LeBron “quit” per se, but he definitely shrunk under the pressure of the moment and I think he’s a bitch. I’m loving what Magic and MJ have said about him.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I go back and forth on him. Ultimately I am glad he left because I hate Cleveland.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad he exposed himself for the pussy that he is. I’m glad he took himself out of the “Greatest of All Time” argument. But I’m unhappy that such a great talent chose to hide behind the abilities of Dwayne Wade where the teams successes and failures won’t be attributed solely to LeBron James.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
It was a wedding toast heard from Broadway to Bourbon Street.
During Carmelo Anthony’s wedding Saturday night at Cipriani’s on 42nd Street, Chris Paul, the superstar New Orleans point guard, predicted a future Knicks Dream Team.
Take that, LeCon.
According to a person who spoke with wedding attendee Amar’e Stoudemire, Paul made the reference during a speech of a potential union of himself, Stoudemire and Anthony, saying, “We’ll form our own Big 3,” Paul allegedly said.
Attendee Spike Lee nearly passed out at the suggestion.
Pretty crazy stuff
To me, that would be totally different.
Now, I’m a knicks fan, so let me put that bias out there. But honestly, I’m fine with not having a narcissist like LeBron.
Here’s the difference: LeBron is in the conversation for trying to make himself the greatest of all time. Carmelo, Amar’e, and Paul are not. LeBron is of a caliber of player who is expected to have a team, HIS team, and to carry that team and take responsibility for its losses. His decision to go to MIA shows that he shrinks under that pressure, as the Boston series showed us as well. LeBron cannot and does not want to try to be “the man” on a team. He just wants to be a part of a team, and he’s happy to let a real man like D-Wade get the credit and the blame for whatever success or failure may follow.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
+1
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
His decision to go to MIA shows that he shrinks under that pressure, as the Boston series showed us as well.
I don’t follow basketball, so I can’t speak to that at all.
However, there’s a very solid financial incentive for playing in Miami versus Cleveland or New York. Even though Cleveland and NYC offered Lebron more money, the punitive income taxes in those cities mean that Lebron will actually be making more money playing in the income tax-free state of Florida. I saw a breakdown of this back when the deal went down, and it was pretty eye-opening.
You don’t see too much of this in the States (yet), but there has been a trend of European soccer stars emigrating from high tax areas (such as Britain).
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1912935,00.html
The British government announced in April plans to hike the income tax from 40% to 50% for workers earning more than about $250,000 a year. … A weakened sterling, meanwhile, is adding to that pain. The currency has shed more than a fifth of its value against the euro in the past two years…. For players measuring their pay against the rewards on offer in Spain, Italy, Germany and France — the eurozone countries home to Europe’s next four biggest leagues — the pay cut could be hard to stomach.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
trust me, this wasn’t about money. The real money they make will be in China, where the biggest endorsements generally go to the NBA champs. So in that regard, he stands to make quite a bit. On the other hand, China will probably regard Wade as the true leader of that team since the Chinese are actually very astute basketball fans and don’t miss the little tips players like LeBron give that shows us how weak they are.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
This entire comment sounds like someone who was backed in a corner and was desperately trying to protect himself. The “wow’s” and “stupidest” is a sign of a damn weak argument while BAL_Hawk provided great facts.
Your only response to him was saying he is a retard for having him on his fantasy team, WHICH, had nothing to do with the blocking argument. He was simply stating that Boldin was one of his favorite players in the league for many years.
Ironically…
I visited BTSC shortly after the Cardinals/Jets game in 2008 and Michael Bean had a story about Boldin’s injury… which I commented on. It’s wierd reading comments from two years ago. I don’t know how I remembered that, but it pretty much shows that Boldin was my favorite receiver even back then.
Sunny Harris? Keenan Lewis? Why don’t I start talking about Cary Williams? He’s been about as impactful for the Ravens as Lewis or Harris have been for the Steelers. The point is that the Ravens have many good, young players… much more than most other teams. That’s why Newsome is so highly regarded.
You can’t just name young players who haven’t done much of anything and then act like the Steelers are stocked full of great, young players. I’m sorry… I’m not buying it. The Steelers may have young players, and those players may have potential… However, their young talent hasn’t accomplished as much or shown as much promise since they’ve been in the NFL. The Ravens, with Oher, Grubbs, Gaither, Rice, Flacco, Ngata, Webb, Zbikowski, are extraordinarily young and talented.
Sure, you can talk about him
If you think he will be an impact player. Isn’t that what we are doing? Talking about young players who we think will be impact players?
Also, you misunderstood what I said above. I never said Newsome should not be regarded highly. I was just saying he wasn’t the best.
Also, I don’t really care what you buy or not. I still don’t buy that your CBs were good last year. I also don’t buy that Flacco is able to carry a team to a championship, unless he ends up with a 2001 type defense. And if I recall last year, Woodley ate up Oher. You definitely have a good team, but I think you all are going to be shocked with how tough the division will be, and how you won’t dominate it.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 17, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Its one thing to talk about players who you think will be impact players. It’s another thing entirely when we’ve actually seen these guys take the field, and in many cases start (Grubbs, Rice, Flacco, Oher, Gaither, Ngata, Webb, and Zbikowski have all started games).
Yes, Woodley did own Oher last year, but wouldn’t you expect a pro-bowl OLB to beat a rookie tackle ten times out of ten? Our boy held his own against Jared Allen, and Woodley was really the only guy I can remember giving him real problems. I’m not sure if I can predict how Harrison vs Oher will go this year, but you can safely expect Oher to improve.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
It is? You play us twice a year, and most likely have to beat us to win the division.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 18, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
If Woodley didnt eat up Oher...
It would be sad. Woodley has had several years to get acclimated, and he is one of the better rushers in the league. Oher, as good as he is, was a rookie. This year should be the real test; Oher, with some experience under his belt, and playing only the left side.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 18, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Good luck against Harrison. That should be amusing.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
In the game where both Gaither and Oher started, the Ravens only allowed one sack to either Woodley or Harrison, and if I remember correctly, that sack was against Heap. Woodly had a great game while playing against Cousins, who is not even a good backup, in the game where Gaither was injured.
Go read that post a few down from Ampallang a few comments down. Just allowing 1 sack does not mean you played well. Giving up QB pressures and hits, which Oher did a lot of, is just as bad.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t buy that your CBs were good last year
No shit, They were not ever all on the field at the same time, they were mostly injured last year, and we still managed to get farther than you guys last year with Chris Carr and Frank Walker in the starting line-up. Those guys are considered our worst players and they still managed to win some games.
And as for Newsome, please tell me why don’t think he’s the best GM?. Because he has great drafts year in and year out? He won us a SB in our first 5 years of existence? Because he gets players that don’t get in trouble publicly? Any valid reason why?
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Zachary Beard on Jul 17, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
The Ravens should have won the Super Bowl in 2006. If they could have just scored a touchdown (when they were on the one-yard-line), they would have been Super Bowl champs. They would’ve easily beaten the Bears.
Don't bringback painful memories
And to think if that was the team we have now, we probably would have won, McClain could have easily pounded that one yard in.
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Zachary Beard on Jul 17, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
We had a serviceable Jamal Lewis during that time. Billick still would have thrown it on 1st and goal.
Rice,McClain, &McGahee>Lewis
"Modesty goes a long way, but confidence goes farther" -Me
by Zachary Beard on Jul 17, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Heck…
McGahee & McClain > Lewis & Smith
That’s not even including Rice, who is clearly one of the best running backs in Raven history.
Jamal already was getting worn down by 2006
But lets not downplay what that man gave to our organization. He was our offense for multiple years, and as good as Ray Rice was last year, I still feel Jamal had a better season in 2003. He also had other very, very good seasons, and lets remember, this was without any semblance of a passing game.
the man ran for 2000 yards
Rice hasn’t topped that yet and probably won’t.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Rice has topped 2000 all purpose yards. thats just as good imo
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 19, 2010 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
while jamal only broke 1800 all purpose yards once in his 10 year career. Rice did it in his 2nd season. Rice should have a better career
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 19, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Jamal’s 2000 rushing yards were a result of an unbalanced offense with a bad quarterback. Rice’s 2000 total yards were a result of a balanced attack. The offense wasn’t amazing last season but was much better than anything that we’ve seen in Baltimore up till now.
I’m not discounting what Jamal did for the Ravens. In his prime, he was the best running back that the Ravens ever had, and Rice has to continue to be successful in order to surpass Lewis as the all-time best. I don’t think that he’s there yet, but I think that it will happen one day. I only said that Rice is already one of the best running backs in Ravens’ history. There’s no doubt that 2009 Rice was better than 2006 Lewis. Heck, I think 2009 McGahee was better than 2006 Lewis.
that's why i'm arguing Jamal's 2000yd season was more impressive
you knew it was jamal, all day every day, and you still couldn’t stop him. He wasn’t the dual-threat that Rice is. While Rice could easily finish with the better career (and probably will), I think it’s definitely harder on your body to get to 2000 just by handoffs than it is when you can also catch passes in space with room to run.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
So you woulda been SB champs if you just won? I think a lot of teams could have been SB champs if they had won more.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 18, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
you must not have watched the game.
all we had to do was run the ball on the 1 yard line to win and instead we threw it. Pick.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
But…you didn’t.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah we know
the point all goes back to Ozzie being the best GM in the game, and we’re arguing that he put together a superbowl caliber roster in 2006. Not his fault that we didn’t run the ball on the goal line.
You gotta try to stick with the point sometimes man.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Kevin Colbert has put together a Super Bowl caliber team for the last 10 years. So has Pioli and Polian. I am supposed to be impressed by 1 year?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
you mean your team has been super bowl caliber in the years you didn’t make the playoffs? interesting!
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes. I’m sure you know how injuries work. Then again, that is expecting a lot.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 22, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
See now we’re back on point.
And no, you don’t have to be impressed by it. We don’t expect you to agree with everything we say.
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
so every time the steelers miss the playoffs its because they were super bowl caliber, but they had injuries! they do not always field a competitve team. no one ALWAYS does
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, when did Newsome become your GM? I know he joined the team in 1996, but I didn’t think he was GM until 2002.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 18, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
We still manage to be a top 10 in passing overall with all our injuries. In 2009, we had 4 different starters at CB (Webb, Washington, Foxworth, Carr), and 1 of our better CB’s from 2008 (Rolle), never suited up. We still ended up 8th overall on the pass. The year before that, we started Washington and Rolle, and were #2 against the pass. So we are clearly better than you thought in the secondary, and that clearly starts with good coaching.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 18, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Woodley really eat up Oher last year?
If you’re talking about the second game between the two teams, it was Oniel Cousins who got eaten up by Woodley, who beat Cousins for two consecutive sacks.
NFL.com says Woodley had one sack in the first game between the Ravens and the Steelers last year, but I don’t recall who it was that gave up that sack. Even if it was Woodley beating Oher on that play, you still can’t say Woodley dominated Oher just because he beat him once during the game for a sack.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
Yeah… Woodley didn’t “eat up” Oher last season.
He flat out embarrassed Cousins though… two consecutive sacks and an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
regardless
I think we can all agree that Woodley got the best of Oher last year, as Johnny pointed out. To this, we can all reply, SO WHAT?
"Cam, we're not going to have any issues because we're going to be winning."
--Joe Flacco
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Did Woodley really eat up Oher last year?
http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/Filmstudy/FILMSTUDY-Offensive-Line-Scoring-and-Notes-vs.-Steelers
“Oher: Michael was the one lineman who played poorly versus the pass. He was beaten by Woodley (Q3, 11:56) which flushed Flacco. Kirschke cleaned up, but that sack was all on Oher. Just 6 plays later, he and Heap allowed Woodley to drop Flacco despite the fact that the Steelers rushed just 3 men and the Ravens kept Heap in. Oher was charged with 2 penalties, but neither affected his scoring. He was charged with an illegal formation penalty when Mason failed to line up on the LoS. He was also charged with a holding penalty that was declined on a play where I charged him for the sack. Oher’s highlight block of the game came on Rice’s 1st down conversion (OT, 8:44). On 3rd and 2, the Ravens wanted 1 more first down to shorten the kick for Cundiff. Oher first pinned Kirschke, then fell backwards and got just enough of Timmons (who was bolting free into the backfield) to allow Rice to cut left for 5 yards. Rice would run once more for 6 yards prior to the kneel and kick. Oher’s block resulted in a kick that was perhaps 9-11 yards shorter and well centered. His unbalanced play on the left side, much of which was pass protection, was rock solid. I have him scored for 3 pancakes and 1 block in level 2. Scoring: 64 blocks, 2 missed, 1.5 sacks, 55 points (.81 per play).”
That’s from Filmstudy, who does absolutely fantastic offensive and defensive line analyses during the season.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
???
I get it that Filmstudy does a great job. I am a little confused. To wit:
Oher: Michael was the one lineman who played poorly versus the pass
Okay; but then on the other hand, this:
His unbalanced play on the left side, much of which was pass protection, was rock solid
So, which is it? Maybe I need to go back to elementary school for reading comphrension as I am obviously missing something here…
You mean in the first game where Woodley had 3 QB pressures, 2 QB hits, 1 sack (also another sack called back on some penalty away from him). That is a hell of a game for any OLB. He really ate up Oher.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
No
This was the first game. Nice try.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Johnny_S has a point
It IS generally a poorly-written article, and NYSteelersFan4, you actually hit on a reason why: the author included players from this year’s draft for every team BUT the Steelers. And you can’t argue that any of this year’s crop of picks has done anything at the NFL level to make them worth including either.
For the record, I think Baltimore has a great GM, and although I believe Colbert is also great, I wish he would “massage” the draft board more, like other teams seem to do, instead of zeroing in on who he wants.
They only mention rookies in passing....
not how good the rookies are. They mention eric berry joining an already very good secondary in KC, and they mention how the ravens rookies are going to have a hard time getting on the field. But they never talk about rookies like they are automatically going to be great.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 18, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Johnny-
The argument is players who have shown flashes of being good in game action, not just in camps. Every team has their players who look good in camps. For your Harris and Lewis, we have Cary Williams and Paul Kruger. But those players are not considered on the same level as players who have performed in real games in the NFL, like Timmons, Webb, Oher and Ziggy Hood.
The article does not tout how good the ravens draft was this year, but rather discusses how deep the ravens are on defense and therefore their top 2 picks will have trouble seeing the field. It doesn’t say that Kindle is the next coming of LT (or Woodley), or anything about how good the rookies will be. It is strictly discussing young players who have shown flashes of greatness in real games who are young.
And in your listing of who you have :
We still have a QB in the middle of his career, a young RB, a top prospect young WR, 3 young DL prospects, 3 or 4 young DB prospects, and a ton of young OLBs. We aren’t where I wish we could be with youth in starting roles…like ILB, S, and OL, but those will come along.
notice outside of QB and RB, you talk about “prospects.” A prospect is a player who hasn’t shown anything in the NFL. this article is not discussing prospects, it is discussing young players like Gaither, Oher, Mendenhall, and Wallace, who should be able to take over as the stars on our teams when the older Pro-bowlers (Ray, Reed, Polamalu, Aaron Smith, Hampton etc) retire.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Jul 18, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Top WR prospect = Mike Wallace (played 16 games last year)
3 DL Prospects = Ziggy Hood (saw action in 5 games), Sunny Harris (2 games)
3 or 4 DBs = Keenan Lewis (saw action in 4 games), Joe Burnett (15 games), Ryan Mundy (16 games)
OLBs = Woodley, outside of him you are right, but the Colbert rarely misses on these guys
Saaaay what?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jul 21, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Another reason to be bully on Baltimore this season is the blend of promising youth and veteran star power that the roster features. Check the makeup of almost every championship club and you’ll see a mix of ascending players who are just entering or are in their prime and a healthy dose of still-productive veterans who know how to get the job done. That’s usually the ingredients for winning, and the emergence of the younger stars is nicely balanced by the sense of urgency that the veterans feel in the pursuit of a ring. As the 14th-year veteran Mason so succinctly put it, the time is now for a good portion of the Ravens roster. And everybody wearing purple and white knows it.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/07/20/ravens/index.html#ixzz0uXI9B5Ja
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Baltimore Beat Down
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SB Nation on YouTube
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Sadly, the Pro Bowl may continue to exist and be held in New Orleans
- Giants’ Coughlin nowhere near retirement at age 65
- Seahawks trade for Kellen Winslow; hope to make 2-TE sets more productive
- All reports positive after Peyton Manning’s first organized team activity in Denver
- Ryan Tannehill won’t start right away, according to Dolphins’ owner
