Ravens Win the Easy Ones!
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 6, 2010 8:38 AM EDT
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PrintIn a discussion about predictions for the upcoming season, I stumbled upon something that I had thought was true, but now is validated: under John Harbaugh, we do not lose easy games. As Ravens fans, it used to drive us crazy when under previous head coach, Brian Billick, we lost to teams which we were supposed to beat. Under current head coach John Harbaugh over the past 2 years, we have only lost to playoff teams or teams fighting for spots. The only team over the past 2 years we lost to which did not make the playoffs was the Steelers last year, and they were fighting for a playoff spot. I think this is a very telling stat. We also generally put away the bad teams early in the game so that if something goes wrong late in the game, it will be too late to blow the game. We beat bottom-dwellers like Cle x2, Det, Chi, KC, Den last year by a combined score of 197-44, unlike Pittsburgh, who lost to many of those bottom dwellers such as KC, Chi, Cle and Oak, all who should have been blown out.
For the record:
2009 Losses- .500 and under: None
Over .500: NE, Ind (x2), Min, Cin (x2), Pit, GB (All playoff teams except Pit)
(For more comparisons in prior seasons, click on the 'Jump.')
2008 Losses-.500 and under: None
Over .500: Pit (x3), NYG, Ten, Ind (All playoff teams)
2007 Losses- .500 and under: Cin (x2), Buf, Mia
Over .500: Cle (x2), NE, Ind, SD
2006 Losses- .500 and under: Car(8-8), Cin (8-8)
Over .500: Den (9-7), Ind (only playoff team)
2005 Losses- .500 and under: Det, Ten, Cle
Over .500: Ind, Chi, Cin (x2), Pit, Den, Jax
2004 Losses- .500 and under: Cle, KC, Cin
Over .500: Phi, NE, Ind, Pit
2003 Losses- Under .500: Pit, Oak Cin
Over .500: KC, Stl, Mia, Ten
2002 Losses- .500 and under: Car (off year, but many of the losses were to 9-7 non-playoff teams)
Over .500: TB, Ind, Pit, Atl, Mia, NO, Cle, Pit
2001 Losses- .500 and under: Cle (x2), Cin
Over .500: TB, GB, Pit (x2)
2000 Losses- .500 and under: Was (Super bowl season)
Over .500: Mia, Ten, Pit
1999 Losses- .500 and under: Pit, NE
Over .500: Stl, Ten, KC, Buf, Jax(x2)
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
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Hey Ray...
Hope you don’t mind. I did a bit of “editing” for purposes of distributing this around SB Nation and for “tagging” links, and also to promote it to the Front Page for today.
Thanks for the research and a great job!
aka 'Rexx'
Maybe the problem
Is that you guys never win the tough ones, or the ones you are the underdog. Besides the one playoff game last year, this might be true. How many games have you won that you were the heavy underdog in? Its great not to have your only losses be to playoff teams. Or at least that is good until you get into the playoffs. I think you guys will have a great team next year, but do you have the moxie to win it all? I am not sold.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
Shocker coming from a Steelers fan. Good to Great D and a much improved receiving core, we’ve got a shot if we stay healthy.
Thats a shocker from the team that has won 2 SBs recently?
We might have lost some ugly games last year, but we did beat the Vikings, Packers, Ravens, and Chargers last year. 4 playoff teams.
All of those can get you into the playoffs, but great QB play is what wins it in the end. Does Flacco have it? I don’t know, I haven’t seen him show promise when it mattered yet.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
What does your team winning 2 SBs recently have to do with it? I was saying it’s a shocker that a Steelers fan is not sold on the Ravens winning the SB (I’m guessing you realized that comment is sarcastic, the shocking part). If we are talking about your team and QB play, in his second year Ben didn’t do much in the SB. So you kinda won despite your QB, that year.
Your right Flacco hasn’t show up in the playoffs yet. I don’t think he was given the weapons to help him much either, until now.
If you watched the Vikings game last year, you’ll see he’s got moxie. He must of been hit 20 times, but just kept getting up and making plays. (Haushka of course ruined that game though)
We don't even get to Superbowl 40 that year without Ben so you can't say despite our QB
He also ran for a TD in the Superbowl and had a great long completion to Hines, and he had a great block on the Randle-El pass sooooo once again you are wrong :)
Look, the fact we can't win the tough ones
have plagued this team since early in the Billick year. That said, we won at SD while the Steelers won all four of those games at home and we lost to Minn. and GB on the road, which is much tougher. Looking at those two Pittsburgh wins over the Pack and Vikes, they should have lost both and probably would have on the road. Enough said, as that didn’t happen and is over.
Can the Ravens do it against tough teams? We’ll have to see this year, but wins in SD and in NE in the post season plus two wins in the playoffs on the road in the ‘08 season gives me hope and optimism. Steelers certainly can’t say they have a ton of that going into 2010 right now.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on May 6, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I have plenty of optimism
:)
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on May 11, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
That has to be one of the worst officiated games ever!
He wasn’t in the end zone, he may have made it the next play but…
Good bye Big Walt.
I think he was in
but the worst officiated game EVER was the Ravens meltdown in Detroit. Just ask Suggs.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on May 11, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd vote
for the 2007 patriots game, one of the very few times I was pulling for the pats, I couldn’t believe what i witnessed.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on May 11, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
absurd game
but another classic case of the Ravens losing composure and loosing not only because of refs, but because of theselves (and the fact that Boller was bound to throw a pick at the wrong time eventually…)
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
in his second year Ben didn’t do much in the SB
Bad argument is bad. Let’s break down the absurdly bad perception that Ben was not the reason the Steelers won the SB that year.
WC Game vs Cincinnati: 14/19 (73.7comp%), 3TDs, 0INTs, 208yds, 148.7 QB Rating
AFC Semis vs Indianapolis: 14/24 (58.3comp%), 2TDs, 1INT, 197yds, 95.3 QB Rating
AFCCG vs Denver: 21/29 (72.9 comp%), 2TDS, 0INTs, 275yds, 124.9 QB Rating
Giving Ben an overall of: 49/72 (68.1comp%), 7TDs, 1INT, 230ypg, 124.8 QB Rating. Keep in mind that this was against the #3, #1, and #2 seed in the AFC…as a wild card. This is the first time this ever happened in the history of the NFL. The colts were the favorites to win it all, and Denver was a damn good 13-3 team. Yeah…he had a huge part in winning that SB.
Don’t forget in the SB that Ben also had a huge pass that set up his 1yd TD scamper that was a great play by him. Additionally, he set a tremendous block that allowed Randle El to get out into the flank for the pass to Ward. Yeah a bad passing game, but the man still made plays.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You are correct there
but like Flacco in his first two years, Ben wasn’t the reason they won or lost. He had a great team around him to take the pressure off. Flacco is at that same point now and we’ll see how he responds.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on May 6, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Ben had pretty much the same type of cast that Flacco had last year.
Great D
Great running game
One good older WR, and a couple of lesser knowns
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’d say Ben’s cast in 05 or 08 had at least one glaring weakness, now Flacco doesn’t at all.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Secondary, its the worst in the league according to you guys.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Not the worst in the league
But its not good. As Kevin Colbert said though, “A great pass rush makes any secondary look good.”
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well our pass rush was in the bottom half of the league last year and 2nd lowest sack total in franchise history as well, and that unit still finished in the top 10. We just need depth, not starters.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Hey, I said that long before Colbert did
But he still has a great show on COmedy Central!
aka 'Rexx'
Wrong Colbert!
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I am not sure Bruce
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the mix of old veterans and young talent
There are a few guys who are middle aged for the NFL but
Good bye Big Walt.
The best thing about this Ravens team is that they’ve improved from game to game and year to year. Really, you could see Flacco coming into his own last season. Obviously, that is debatable and somewhat subjective, but if you’ve watched every snap like I have, you’d see that Flacco “get’s it” (for lack of a better term). Furthermore, the Ravens young, talented offensive linemen have another year under Birk, and that should really help. The offensive line was already excellent last season, and any improvement will make them the strength of the team. Obviously, the new targets for Flacco should also help.
There were many reasons why the Ravens were still losing the close games to good teams last season. I think that one big reason can be attributed to quarterback play on both sides of the ball. The Ravens lost close games (by less than 6) to the Patriots, Bengals, Vikings, Colts and Steelers. What do all of those games have in common? Each opponent has a franchise quarterback, and in each of those games, there was a key play made by the opposing quarterback that altered the outcome of the game. The defense played poorly in the early losses, and even though Flacco was throwing for career highs, he wasn’t able the match the success that the opposing quarterback had versus his defense. In the later games after Flacco’s injury in the Vikings game, the defense actually started to come together under Mattison and put on an impressive showing in the second half of the season. Unfortunately, Flacco’s play became more-and-more pedestrian as the defense improved. This contributed to the Ravens continuing to struggle versus good Quarterbacks and losing close games all season long.
by BAL_Hawk on May 6, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flacco couldn't even beat out Palko at Pitt
He isn’t a franchise QB and I believe you guys will draft someone in the near future to replace him…..
Old story
Brady was a backup at Michigan and in NE. Romo was as well. Favre couldn’t play in Atlanta. Want us to go on? Unitas was CUT by the Steelers!
While Ben will be with the Steelers much longer? Riiiighttttt…..
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on May 6, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Fat Boy also had to go to Ohio University to play football. He didn’t even get into a major football university…
Watch out ATX
Flcco went to a big time school himself!?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on May 6, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I said he didn't get into a major football school. Flacco at least started at a major football program.
I was just furthering the notion that good QB’s can come from anywhere. Dr Del had to point out Flacco did not unseat Palko at Pitt so he transferred to UDel. So my point was that Pig Pen couldn’t even get recruited by a major conference school and he ended up beign this redneck’s ideal QB.
It may very well be that Ben could have sat behind someone else at a major school, but he chose a small shit school so he could start. How is that different from Flacco moving to a small shit school so he could play. I know UDel is not an FCS school but he had no other choice when the college does not rescind their scholarship.
Yea but who knows how good Marino would have been with Pitt. They were pretty bad in the 80’s I beleive. Marino had some serious weapons, including a guy named Mark Clayton.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
He would of been good enough...
to get to the HOF….And a hell of alot better than anybody they had!
ps; Gabe lasted 6 games before is career was over.
You wrong on that
they just did a show on NFLN, Pitt was expected to win the NC Marino Sr year. they were good with Marino. They stuggled a little bit his Sr year and then the drug crap came out. Art Rooney wanted to draft the guy but others disagreed, he of course was vindicated and before he died he rubbed it in his son’s face saying, “You should have drafted Marino.” It makes me sick, we would have at least 2 more Super Bowls if we would have drafted the guy in our own back yard. SMH
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on May 11, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah Marino would have definitely won a SB there... do you remember watching him play? he was incredible
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
he was one of those rare QBs who had some drives where you just weren’t going to stop him. There was nothing you could do. He could eviscerate a defense. Eviscerate. Big word.
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I remember some of his games
the only QB that can be put in the discussion of ‘best ever’ without ever winning a SB, he did come close one time and that was it.
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on May 12, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
that drug talk was all bull
it was manufactured by the Dolphins to get teams to passon Marino
"We don't report the murders just the beatings!"
Tom Brady
Was a starter for two years at Michigan. He started 25 games. He won 20 of them, including Citrus and Orange bowl wins. He set records for most pass attempts and completions in a season at UoM, and was an All Big Ten honorable Mention selection both years.
The whole Brady did nothing in college thing is crap. He was ignored in the draft because he followed Griese and everyone wanted Drew Henson to take his job.
The whole Brady was a back-up or didn’t do well in college is crap. I don’t know why it persists, but it is dead wrong.
Yea, Brady was actually very good at Michigan. But after he entered the draft, he looked like an average QB compared to the other guys.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
See what I know
but w/o Bledsoe getting sleened on the sidelines by the Jets, Brady’s legacy might be more off the field w/ Giselle than what he’s ended up doing on it. You just never know. There are some many examples. The Unitas thing was at least correct!
aka 'Rexx'
How dare you Dr. Del. Where is Palko now and where is Flacco? Exactly. I predict Jake Locker will be your QB in 2011 when Ben can’t control himself in the shower after a game. He will see a naked Jeff Reed putting his daily lip gloss on and snatch him right up into the bathroom stall.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Seriously, Walt Harris is a QB guru, and a great talent evaluator, if he didn’t Think Flacco was good enough to play then he isn’t.
If Harris wasn’t a genius would he hold the prestigious post of offensive coordinator at the California University of Pennsylvania?
Well he obviously made a mistake with Flacco. Who knows what Joe could have done if given the chance at a big time school like Pittsburgh. He might have ended up picked higher than Matt Ryan. Joe is now an NFL QB, and a pretty damn good one. That obviously shows that Harris made a huge mistake.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Phanta and Malor
Your argument holds no water. Palko was a sick college QB, who was a year older than Flacco. Harris clearly made the right choice, as Palko gave him the best chance of success right away. He beat out Flacco and put up season’s that look like this:
2004- 230/409 56.2%, 3067 yds, 7.5 ypa, 24 tds 7int 135 qbrating 3 rush tds
2005- 193/341 56.6%, 2392 yds, 7.0 ypa, 17 tds 7int 126 qbrating 6 rush tds
2006- 220/322 68.3%, 2871 yds, 8.92 ypa, 25 tds 9int 163 qbrating 2 rush tds
Flacco’s numbers as a college QB in 2 years as a starter:
2005- 264/417 63.3%, 2783 yds, 6.67 ypa, 18 tds 10int 128 qbrating 5 rush tds
2006- 331/521 63.5%, 4263 yds, 8.18 ypa, 23 tds 5int 144 qbrating 4 rush tds
Palko clearly gave him the best chance to win, so he starter. However Palko is only 6"1 215, not good specs for a pro qb, while Flacco is 6"6 230. Also, Flacco’s completion pct is superior to Palko’s and that is a good indicator of pro success.
The one thing Flacco really holds over Palko besides completion pct is the ability to avoid sacks. He was only sacked 15 times in 2 seasons starting (his first season as a starter he actually was never sacked!), compared to Palko’s 90 times in 3 years. But also remember his level of competition was lower than Palko’s also!
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 6, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Flacco > Palko and always will be to me. Harris made the wrong choice IMO.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Did you watch them?
Palko was a better QB right away. Flacco sat for a while and was a very good college QB at a lesser competition level. Just cuz Palko is not a good pro does not mean Flacco was a better college QB. Troy Smith was a much better college QB than Flacco, as was Tebow, does not mean they are better pro QB’s. It is not the same.
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 6, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I did watch Palko. I followed Pitt closely because of Fitzgerald, who was a key reason for Palko’s success. I think Flacco could have stepped in there and done even better with Fitz. But that is just my bias coming out. Joe > everything in the world.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Do we really want to go into your QB situation
especially when yours should be awaiting trial if the investigator had done a semi decent job.
Good bye Big Walt.
I'm a Flacco hater
But that is only because I am a Steelers fan. I will laugh and jeer you all when he struggles. That being said, I realize he has potential. He does throw the out pass better than any QB in the NFL right now, IMO. However, his reads, specifically in crunch time or when pressured are really bad. That is the biggest reason I don’t think you all should be the SB favorites this year and ultimately the reason I do not think you will win it. He could figure it out, and I could be wrong, but he is still pretty young. Pittsburgh just happened to get lucky with a guy who figured it out pretty quick. Even then, Ben still has some downsides, but he seems to shed more and more of that off every year.
Flacco sort of reminds me of the good Manning. Not in his style of play, but in the fact that for awhile there, you could say Manning was a great QB, but there was a valid argument to say he was a bad QB. I could care less about what records he shatters, before he won the SB he was just another QB IMO. I think Flacco might take as long as Manning to figure out how to be successful in the POs. Its rare for a QB to figure that out within the first 5 years of his career.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It might take him a little while to start putting up good numbers in the playoffs, but 3 wins in 2 season is successful in the playoffs IMO. If you don’t know by now, I am one of the few who throws stats out the window regularly.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Oh I know
Because I put a good amount of weight in some numbers.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure the stats are great to have. But I really do not care as long as we win. I would hope as a fan you would to. If Flacco threw for 57 yards and 2 ints in the Superbowl and we won, then Joe is a Superbowl winning QB and played an intricate role in us winning that. The QB is the most important position, and as long as Joe the winning QB after 60 minutes, he did everything I could ask for.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Your signature says how I feel about sports
Watching and playing them
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
In regard to your signature and many of the points in its link
You know that it is still rape even if in the middle of having sex the woman says she wants to stop at any time? She could have asked for it all night, been “DTF” from the get-go, and actually led Ben down the hall, but if she said no at any time… it is still a crime.
I had a teammate in college that was accused of this at a frat party. He ended up not being charged formally because it all came down to “he said/she said” but if they could have proved somehow that she reall had said “no” even in the middle of the act, he would have been busted. He ended up sitting out the semester from rugby while this all played out.
Not really related to this but I just followed that link for the first time.
According to her own report she never said no in during intercourse. We should probably not dive into this here because its way off topic.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't mean to imply that she did...
Just pointing out that just because all signs pointing to her being ‘DTF’ doesn’t necessary mean he is absolved of all actions.
But you are right though,
I don’t mean to bring up that topic in detail, sorry.
You know Wins and Loses
count as stats right?
Steelers football is 60 mins.
by tannofsteel84 on May 11, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Johnny S- Beating winning teams
Although in 2009 we did not do well against teams with winning records, most of the games were close, and we should have won them. We had some unforced errors that changed the tide (mason’s dropped TD, Claytons dropped 4th down pass, missed fg’s etc), which are part of the game, but we should have performed better. Last season’s lack of success is not really a reflection on Harbaugh IMO, it is a reflection on the players not closing out last season against good teams. In Harb’s first year as coach, we beat as many good teams as we lost to: Phi, Dal, Was, Mia, and Hou all finished 8-8 or better, plus Ten and Mia in the playoffs. We only lost to NYG, Ind, Ten, and Pit (x3).
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 6, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So you are saying your team didn’t win because they didn’t make plays? Yeah, that’s usually how football goes. I am not saying you are an awful team, I think I’ve said you were a very good team, but you don’t do well in bigger games. Also, I think for the most part “not making plays” is half attributed to you failing to execute and half attributed to the other team preventing you from doing what you want to do. We could dive into that, but it is all merely speculation.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO, we have taken big steps but haven't put it together... until now hopefully.
As far as executing those huge game sealing/stealing plays. You have to understand our optimism is in large part a functional of how useless our offense has been the past decade. If we had half of an offense the past ten years than I have no doubt we would have at least one more championship in the 2000’s. Now we need to make the next step where we can make the Manning/Brady/Big Ben drives when necessary like great teams do. That has been the difference between you and us for several years.
It’s tough because you are getting the offense together and the defense is getting old. Our QB came a few years earlier than yours, so our window was a bit bigger. Replacing Reed and Lewis is going to be very hard to do.
As a whole, our defense got younger. We have been making the right moves to have life after Ray and Reed. Of course no one will ever have their same impact, but we have loaded this team up with a D-Line that is set for a very long time, a extremely young and talented edge rush from the OLB and breeding a new Ellerbeast at MLB. The CB’s are young and getting in the groove. We have gotten younger, not older. So please stop saying that.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
yea drives me nuts.
people always say our defense is “aging.” while our two best players are aging, the rest of the D is incredibly young and gettng younger.
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
The funny thing is
That people have been saying our defense is old since 2005. I love it. I hear that year after year as a reason for why people think we are not good……………and then we finish in the top 5 in total defense, Ray is at the top in tackles and Reed intercepts 8 passes. Gotta love the jealousy. And it is quite funny because the Steelers have more “aging” players than we do and so many of their contracts are up after this season. Their defense is going to take a nose dive way before ours ever does, if it ever does.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Name those many contracts that are up after this year. Woodley,Timmons, Taylor …then who that matters? Hoke? Frazier? Fox? Gay? So we give Woodley a big contract. Keep Timmons if he is reasonable. Ike won’t get big offers so we will keep him. And maybe we keep Hoke and Gay for very cheap.
Then as far as age goes, I feel like we have every spot filled with youth. OLB- Woodley and Worilds with Gibson. ILB- Timmons and Sly. CB – McFadden, Burnett, Madison, Lewis (probably have to draft a CB 1st or 2nd next year). DE- Ziggy and Sonny. NT-Possibly Pasxon or maybe draft one.
Offense we are young pretty much every where.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 6, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Of them, I think they keep Woodley, Timmons, Ike, Fox and maybe Gay at the league minimum.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions
My only worry, if I were you, is that you’re replacing good, old players with average, young players. Besides Woodley and maybe Worilds, the future Steelers defense seems to be lacking play-makers.
they still got time with polamalu
so i’m not getting comfortable any time soon
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I disagree. On DL, Woods looked great last year, and apparently Sunny Harris has been really great and they have tried to keep him under the radar.
At CB we don’t have a true shut down CB, but we won 2SBs with a good CB and the rest average. I’m confident one of our last year’s draft picks will step up with McFadden.
At OLB we have a very young Woodley with Worilds.
At ILB we have Timmons and Foote (with Fox who is a decent fill in). We will see if Sly is NFL caliber or not.
The only place we lack play makers that are young is Safety. Troy still has a lot of gas left in the tank and we still are not sure what Mundy is capable of offering us.
Our defense is centered around the pass rush. As long as we have youth there that can get to the QB we will be in good shape.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Worilds
If we are assuming Worilds is going to be good, than we can go ahead and assume that Kruger and Kindle are going to be just as good.
I meant players who have proven that they are above avg, like Woodley, Ngata, JJ, and Suggs. Or at least players who have shown flashes like Timmons, Landry, Foxworth, Webb etc….
Bot unproven guys who were just drafted…. Foote has proven solid, but we have tons of “solid” LB on our roster. And Fox has not shown anything yet…
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 7, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Fox plays a solid buck to Timmons who, IMO, will be a great once he moves to the mack.
My mention of Worilds is more optimistic than anything.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as you admit
that those players are all speculative, just like I will admit that there is no guarantee that Kindle, Cody and Kruger will be studs! We are debating players who are currently in their primes and playing at a high level, and the only ones who fit that bill are Woodley, Ngata, Suggs, Polamalu (toward the end of his prime, but…), and JJ. Up and comers (IMO) who have shown significant flashes are Timmons, Webb, Foxworth, Ellerbe. (and Clark is very solid, but a little older than 30). Don’t know who else from you has shown flashes, haven’t seen enough of Hood to know, but other than that you have lots of lower round picks who haven’t shown anything yet. We have plenty of those too!
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 7, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd say hood looks real good.
and i’d stop short of calling Webb an up-and-comer since his injury could set him back in terms of performance for long after he returns to play.
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Ziggy is the real deal
And I am not talking about the reggae singing son of the Legend. He made some great plays last year, but you could see he did not have a full grasp on the schemes like a rookie generally doesn’t.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Similar to Webb
Started coming on strong mid-season. You are going to need Ziggy to be very good, since you are losing 2 very good players on the line eventually in Hampton and Smith, and the rest of your lineman are late rounders who haven’t shown much….
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 7, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing the Steelers have proven
is that a good pass rush makes corners a lot better. If our new guys do their job, we will be just fine at DB.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on May 11, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Their CB’s were trash last year and they had Woodley and Harrison destroying QB’s. Did you see the Raiders and KC games?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
yeah
i think at a minimum you need a special DB somewhere. Like we have Reed, they have Troy. Pass Rush + Polamalu = hard ass defense. Just like Pass Rush + Ed Reed works.
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
I’m sorry, the cornerstones of your defense are getting old. Is that better? Reed and Lewis are the guys everyone fears, they are the most dangerous men on your field.
My point is that while they are in the home stretch Flacco is just getting going. The difficulty of getting him ready while Ray and Reed can still take over games, or finding a replacements for them, is the main challenge to being a Super Bowl team. You aren’t going to have another 2000 defense any time soon. You’re going to need Flacco, and he hasn’t reached his peak yet. I know your defense is getting younger, but I don’t see any Ray Lewis or Ed Reed caliber guys there to step up. Until there are, your window is growing smaller every year.
The only reason Ed is talking retirement
is his injury as he is only in his early 30’s. As far as the old story about Ray being old, look what he did last season, perhaps one of his best ever (ask Darren Sproles) plus check out his Podcast interview in a newer story, on his workout practices to see how “old” he feels.
aka 'Rexx'
Phanta
We already have our replacements lined up at other position. We have pro bowlers in Ngata and Suggs, and future pro bowlers/ very good players in Jarrett Johnson and Webb. Now we will have to see what young guys like Kindle, Landry, Foxworth, Cody, Ellerbe, Zibkowki and Nakamura can do. All of them have shown flashes of being very good players at some point. The question is, can they sustain in. Point is, we are young at 8/11 starting positions on D. Every starter on your D is 30+ with the exception of Troy, McFadden (both 29), Timmons and Woodley. This includes your whole D-line and both ILB. 9/11 of your starting D is 29 or older
You guys have some players, but only 1 young pro bowler in Woodley, and maybe Clark in the future, and overall alot more older starters on defense!
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 7, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
you left out ziggy, he's young.
but as for ravens D, I think if you looked at our defense as if it never had Ray or Reed and saw the young players coming up, you’d be looking at it as a defense that was about to be REALLY good. Nobody is predicting another 2000 season, as we won’t achieve that level again for a long time (and honestly, who will?)
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
What will we ever do?!
If only the Steelers were a team that reloaded well…Woodley(OLB), Worilds(OLB), Timmons(ILB), Gibson(OLB), Sly(ILB), Hood(DE), Harris(DE), Paxon(NT), McLendon(DE), Worthington(DE), Mundy(SS), Burnett(CB), Lewis(CB).
We’ll be fine. Most of the players on our defense still have 3-5 great years left in them.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Mundy, really? All I heard were terrible things from about him from your guys. Don’t be so high on Burnett and Lewis. James Walker of ESPN made a great point about them.
Travis (Sioux Falls, SD)
James, What chance do the 2 CB drafted last year have of playing significant time this year for the Steelers?
James Walker
It doesn’t seem like Pittsburgh trusts Keenan Lewis and Joe Burnett just yet. Trading for Bryant McFadden speaks volumes, and so does instantly putting him on the first team.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Quoting James Walker FTL
All three were rookies. What’d you expect them to do last year? Dominate from day 1? That is not the average path for DBs in this league.
The future is not what it used to be.
What the media did not tell you.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think he dominated? Not to add he did not start from day 1.
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 7, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Dominated, no. But he played very, very well. 3rd round picks from Nichols State usually don’t start from day 1. But to get a start as a rookie CB on this defense should tell you alot about how good he is.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
He was our best CB
on a D that finished top 5 overall and 10th or so against the pass. Foxworth was very good 2nd half of the year too.
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 7, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
was more responding to your point about them being rookies, and what did we expect them to do?
All three were rookies. What’d you expect them to do last year?
I countered with Webb who was our top CB not long after midseason. He might not have dominated from day one, but he was as close to “dominating” as a rookie CB can be at the time of his injury.
Compare this with what your rookie CB’s gave last year and I think you see my point…
If these guys have shown that they already were going to be good...
that would be one thing, but your point was that we have no one to replace Ray and Reed on D. My point is that we have more proven young guys on D than you do. And a bunch more who have shown flashes of being something special. This list of guys are all guys who have shown nothing yet, except Woodley who should make some pro bowls, and Timmons who has shown flashes. The rest of the guys are all unproven, and while you have obviously seen more of them than us, we too have guys who we think will be great.
For Worilds we have Kindle, Hood we have Cody, Timmons we have Ellerbe, Gibson we have Barnes, Sly we have Gooden, Paxon we have A. Jones, Worthington we have Kruger, Burnett we have Webb, Lewis and Mundy we have Nakamura and Zbkowski. Outside of that you have Polamalu and Woodley already playing at an elite level, while we have Suggs, Ngata, and JJ already playing at an elite level too. My point is that our young talent is more established than yours at this point, so we are more equipped to handle the departure of Ray, Reed, and Gregg than you guys are to handle the departures of Farrior, Harrison, Smith, Hampton and polamalu (a few years down the line for him)
by Rayisyourdaddy on May 7, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I agree our Super Bowl window is closing fast, but we got two out of that window.
The current incarnation of the Ravens hasn’t got one yet. The point has been made in this post that you need the defensive lockdown and some great plays from Flacco to put you over the top and get that SB win.
To flesh out my argument even further Reed and Lewis are the guys who make most of those plays on your defense. They are getting older, Flacco needs to be the guy on offense, and you need weapons to make it work. I think you have the players in the system, but they need to develop fast (within 2 yrs.) if you are going to be able to rely on Ray and Ed to make big plays. Otherwise you need to replace those big plays and leadership from other spots. Maybe those guys are there, but having a good replacement, or even a future Pro-Bowler coming up is a far cry from the way Lewis and Reed have terrorized teams.
I’m not saying the Ravens are a bad team, or on the decline, I don’t think so at all. But time is going to run out sooner than later for Ray and Ed Reed to be major factors in the big crucial moments. There is no one on your roster as dangerous in the backfield as Ed Reed, just like we can’t replace Troy. Those guys are huge on a Super Bowl run.
yeah youre right
the ravens core of players right now have this year and next, and maybe the year after, but after that a new core group of playmakers (and hopefully superstars) will need to emerge.
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Reed and Lewis are the guys everyone fears, they are the most dangerous men on your field.
Haloti Ngata would beg to differ.
so does Terrell Suggs,
my guess is Sergio Kindle and Terrence Cody will too.
Offensively Gaither and Oher do too.
Good bye Big Walt.
Was following some twitters today about the practices going on, and one said that the first run by Rice today was swallowed up by Cody.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
He's going to be nasty.
I heard somewhere that Ngata is sliding over to the end spot? Either way those two guys keep fresh legs every play and that is a nasty pass rush and run stuff.
Good bye Big Walt.
To the point of the oppo’s D stopping us from making plays… from 2000-2008 it was almost all ineptitude – 90 our fault because we were so bad. In 2008 and 2009 it was about 50 – 50, which is why we as fans have been so pumped… that’s not something to be proud of for other teams, but for us that’s huge.
Now, the question is can we turn it up to the Manning/Brady/Big Ben level where it is inevitable we are going to score without a huge play by the D instead of it being inevitable we fail without some one in a million miracle.
Naturally as Ravens fans we feel we have turned the corner in the offseason and what we have seen. But we are biased just as you are and see our promise more than you would,
Ravens didn't have an off. with Billick
with Cam and a very capable offense they’re scoring a bunch of pts against mediocre and bad teams.
thats why I can't wait for this year to start
everything is in place for this offense to succeed (barring injury) . Third year Flacco will improve. Very good backfield and recievers, decent O-line, awesome D. Its time to beat the big boys. I think they do and go 13 – 3.
Call me a sissy, but I'd still rather just not face them at all.
I’m fine with winning a SB by beating the Bengals, Chargers, Jets, and Cowboys and never testing us against the Colts.
i think we're all fine with that
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
Not yet - that is part of the growing process.
some of that is needing Flacco to mature and getting some real targets for him. Mason was a really good receiver in his prime but those days are over. Boldin is a solid no. 2, Williams is inconsistent and always will be. His most reliable targets are TE’s but he needs a big physical burner, we may have been one of the teams that would have benefited from going after Brandon Marshall.
Good bye Big Walt.
Boldin #2?
He is a top 20 WR in the league. He performed well before Fitz came into the league, and when he missed games for injury reasons. That makes him a #2?
yeah he's a clear-cut number 1. thats why he wanted out of Larry Fitzgerald-ville.
" Surgeon General's Warning: Do not stare directly at Al Davis. Do not think about Al Davis. Do not make any sudden movements when near Al Davis."
--Simmons
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
his speed - he is a game changer don't get me wrong
He’s more of the T.J. to Chad (can’t spell one of their last names and have no idea what the other is calling themself this week.)
Good bye Big Walt.
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