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The Ravens Need a Nose Tackle

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There’s been a lot of talk about defensive linemen in reference to the Ravens' draft needs, and it is well deserved. Last season, the Raven’s defense was still very good, but the pass rush was lacking to say the least. That leads many draft experts and fans screaming for the Ravens to draft an elite pass rusher in the upcoming draft.

I do not believe that the Ravens problem is due to a lack of pass rushers. In fact, I believe that the Ravens have some of the league's best every-down and situational pass rushers already on the team. So, what is the problem then? I believe that the problem started in the 2008 season and only became more obvious as last season progressed. The problem is with the personnel that the Ravens have playing in their front three. In this article, we will look at how the Ravens current players along the defensive line are affecting the pass rush and why the Ravens really need an elite nose tackle.

This article is basically a spin-off of my last article, Football 101: The Ravens Hybrid Defense. I suggest that you read that article before you read this because it will give you a better understanding of this topic.

Last season the Ravens defense could never seem to get pressure when rushing four defenders. It was very frustrating because Ravens fans are accustom to the Ravens consistently dominating games with their defense. When the Ravens would rush three or four defenders, opposing quarterbacks could seemingly take all day to survey the field and find and open receiver. In order to get pressure, the defense needed to send five or more blitzers at the quarterback, and especially versus good quarterbacks, this proved to be the Ravens weakness all season long. If they didn’t blitz enough, the opposing quarterback had all day to find a receiver, but if they blitzed too much, there was such a huge hole in coverage that the quarterback could find the open receiver immediately. They found balance later in the season, but anyone could see that good quaterbacks were nearly impossible for the Ravens to defend against.

Star-divide

The Ravens problem wasn’t with any individual player or defensive scheme; the problem started with their defensive line personnel. Last season, the Ravens starting defensive linemen were Haloti Ngata and a heavy rotation of Kelly Gregg, Trevor Pryce, Justin Bannan and Dwan Edwards. Gregg typically rotated in at nose tackle with Ngata. Pryce, Bannan and Edwards rotated in at defensive end on both sides. Ngata and Terrell Suggs also played defensive end occasionally, and Ngata often played entire games at end with the other linemen filling in at the other positions. Just to be clear, there were no other players starting in the front three besides the players I just mentioned.

Can you guess the problem with those defensive linemen? Most people probably would say that they’re not pass rushers and that’s the problem. That was part of the problem but is not the heart of the matter. No matter which way you stack them, the only defensive lineman that consistently required a double team was Haloti Ngata. That's the real issue and is totally unacceptable for a 3-4 defensive line. Kelly Gregg use to be one of the best nose tackles in the league, but he's no longer able to consistently demand a double team. The same can be said of Trevor Pryce, one of the premier five technique defensive ends in his prime. Luckily the Ravens linebackers were good enough to mask this weakness for much of the season. Since all of the linemen were run-stuffers, the Ravens could still stop the run better than most teams. That added some flexibility, but the underlying problem remained.

The Ravens front three only required four offensive linemen to block them on any given play. The fifth offensive lineman would then be free to pick up any extra linebackers that would be blitzing. Therefore, blitzing four defenders simply would not generate pressure on a regular basis. Sure, they could try over-load blitzes to even the numbers, but those are trick plays that are easily countered. The law of averages will come into play when you’re defending hundreds of plays over the course of a season.

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Therefore, the Ravens really need to even out the numbers on defense, and the only way to do that is to eat up blocks along the offensive line. This allows the power of the 3-4 and hybrid defense, the edge rush, to be most effective. The Ravens already have two of the best hybrid outside linebackers in the league in Terrell Suggs and Jarret Johnson, and drafting more edge rushers will just take playing time away from those guys. The Ravens need to put a huge nose tackle next to Ngata. As I explained in my last article, Ngata is a great hybrid 3-4 defensive end since he’s athletic enough to defend the outside run and strong enough to play inside. With Ngata and an elite nose tackle, the entire offensive line would be needed to contain the interior defensive linemen. On the average play, four offensive lineman would need to block the nose tackle and Ngata, and if you add another average player like Kruger or Pryce, the entire offensive line would be sweating over three guys.

This would add extreme flexibility to the defense. In the 4-3 look, Ngata would shift to play nose tackle, and the nose tackle would shift between the guard and tackle on the strong side, where teams like to run the ball. In this alignment, the nose tackle and Ngata could easily shut down the inside running game. The defensive end on the strong side would effectively become an edge rusher along with the hybrid outside linebacker on the weak side of the formation. Basically, the defense would have two guys playing the three man front effectively and two edge rushers on every play. This lineup would shred offensive lines from the inside out. The offensive line would be collapsed from the middle and harassed from the outside. Furthermore, there is no way that they could run the ball with two huge tackles in the middle like a 4-3 defense and two inside linebackers like a 3-4 defense.  All of this would be accomplished without sacrificing anything in coverage. On most plays in fact, they should be able to drop an extra man into coverage with no loss in pressure.

The title of this article may be a little misleading because adding an excellent five technique defensive lineman, that could also demand a double team, would basically yield the same results. However, I believe that adding an excellent nose tackle would be more effective since it could also maximize Ngata's athleticism at defensive end. Adding a new player that increases a current player's effectiveness is one of the best ways for a team to build and improve itself. Therefore, I stand by my original assertion that the Ravens need a nose tackle even more than a defensive end or edge rusher.

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Wow, you might just have convinced me!

With this great breakdown, your logic makes a ton of sense that perhaps I didn’t see or agree with previously. So if the guys that are expected to be there ar ethere, who are your favorites for us to pick?

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Apr 16, 2010 8:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Dan Williams would be the best possible scenario. Believe it or not there are a few scenarios where Williams could fall to the Ravens. I like Williams because, on top of being a top-tier run-stuffing nose tackle, he’s also a great pass rusher. Terrence Cody is the other obvious choice for nose tackle. He’s not a pass rusher but is a bigger force in the run defense. He also would require more blockers than Williams. He just won’t get off him blocks as quickly as Williams. Basically, Cody would allow the outside linebackers and defensive ends to shift even further outside the tackles and have even more outside leverage.

Outside leverage is a key factor in the pass rush. After the snap, an offensive line creates a “pocket.” The idea is to form a semi-circle wall around the quarterback. The pocket will mold itself to the pass rush like a steel bar being bent. Much like bending a steel bar, the offensive line will bend faster and break easier when you increase the leverage on the outside shoulders of the tackles. The problem is that offenses will take advantage of defenses if they try taking too much leverage. Draw plays and screens hurt outside leverage, but when a defense can maintain run defense with only two interior defensive linemen, that adds alot of flexibility because the defense can shift its pass rushers out with impunity.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great article

I like how this idea has unravelled on this blog. There has been talk of us drafting Cody, and now of Dan Williams. Before, I thought a versatile outside player would clearly work better for us, but a good NT seems to be a more glaring need. One of those first round guys may fit the bill.

In Madden, if you switch Ngata to NT, he shoots up to 99% overall. But he is still 96%, or something, overall at the DE position. He is a tremendous athlete, just as Madden shows us, and moving him outside occasionally could get those favorable matchups, as BAL_Hawk has already stated. I support the idea now, I guess. I’m in.

by PurpleNorangeNbeer on Apr 16, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice write up Hawk.

I’m on the other side of the fence. I think we’re set at DL with the pick-up of Cory Redding. Kelly Gregg has another off-season to get that knee healthier. Other players with similiar injuries have said the second year after surgery is when you get your explosive first step back. If Gregg doesn’t get it back, we have other big bodies in Bryant Mckinnie and Kelly Talovu.

Kruger has added bulk, he should be ready for some end play.

Our starting inside line options could be:

1)Ngata, Gregg, Redding
2)Pryce, Ngata, Redding
3)Kruger, Ngata, Redding (what I’m hoping for if Krugers ready)
4)Kruger, Gregg, Ngata.

If we really want to improve our pass rush, Suggs need to get his fat ass in shape and become the beast again he still claims to be. He use to demand a double team on every play. JJ is a good all around player. If we could get another edge rusher out there occasionally, it would keep guys fresher and we’d get to the QB more often. Barnes I was hoping would fill this role with his speed and athletism, but he’s been inconsistent up till now.

Also, another fatty in the middle(like Cody) would help stop the run more than get to the QB. Good pocket passers love to step up in the pocket not roll outside. We need a guys who split double teams and force the QB to roll out.

If we go DL(which I hope we don’t) in the first round, I hope it’s Odrick, not Cody. Odrick has a non-stop motor and great work eithic. He looks like a beast that can stop the run and get to the QB. Cody looks like a fatty who demands a double team but doesn’t do anything after getting it. He’ll clog the middle no doubt, but I think we got tons of players who can already do that.

  

by BmoreBlitz on Apr 16, 2010 8:44 AM EDT reply actions  

If the Ravens don’t draft a defensive lineman, their starting lineup would probably be:

RE Ngata NT Gregg LE Pryce/Redding/Kruger

or

RE Redding NT Ngata LE Pryce/Kruger

The second option would be possible if Redding turns out to be a decent 3-4 defensive end. In my opinion, the Ravens cannot rely on Redding. They can hope for the best but cannot seriously count on him as a every down starter. I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised with Redding. He certainly has all of the potential and just smells like another Ozzie Newsome free agent theft.

The only problem with the lineups that you’ve suggested is that they’re basically the same as last year. In fact, they may be worse than last season if Redding and Kruger cannot step up as 3-4 defensive ends. Another reason that I like the nose tackle route is because it could help Paul Kruger. Kruger would be able to play with more outside leverage… in effect, play a 4-3 defensive end even in three man fronts. I think that he would excel in that role and possibly become a premier defender on the defense.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If the Ravens cannot rely on Redding or Kruger, we still have Pryce and Gregg. I don’t think Ozzie would have picked up Redding if he couldn’t play anyway, same with Kruger. Can we automatically trust a rookie NT first game too? As we all know, we draft BPA. So Ozzie must be prepared to go with the lineup we already have if someone that’s not a NT falls to us.

The Redding, Ngata, Kruger lineup should create more pressure on the QB since all these guys would be more mobile than adding another NT. If the lineup was Cody, Ngata, Kruger we’d be a run stuffing team pretty much the same as last year(which wasn’t bad). I want guys who get double teamed because of their abilty to disrupt the pocket and get to the QB, not just their size. Cody had no sacks last year, I don’t think he’s our answer for more pressure on the QB.

by BmoreBlitz on Apr 16, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can we automatically trust a rookie NT first game too?

If they draft a lineman in the first round, they can absolutely start him on day one. Both Cody and Williams would start immediately unless they were hurt in training camp or had some other Andre Smith-like problem. First round rookies are typically expected to make first year contributions… especially lineman, who usually start right away.

The Redding, Ngata, Kruger lineup should create more pressure on the QB since all these guys would be more mobile than adding another NT.

That doesn’t typically work. Adding “mobile” players to the middle only works if they’re also strong enough to fight offensive linemen. Trying putting Suggs at the five technique. He would be swallowed up since there is nowhere to maneuver down on the line. When playing inside, a defensive lineman cannot go around the offensive lineman. Therefore, speed does them little good. Speed comes into play AFTER they’ve ripped off their block or blocks, and a linebacker typically doesn’t have the strength to do this. Once an offensive lineman gets his hands on a linebacker or smaller defensive end, they typically don’t let go, and on the inside of the line, the ONLY ways to get off blocks is with good technique or pure strength. I’m not saying that mobility doesn’t help. I’m just saying that strength is more important inside the tackles and mobility won’t typically help the pass rush.

Cody had no sacks last year, I don’t think he’s our answer for more pressure on the QB.

The entire point of my article above was to show how a nose tackle could help the Ravens pass rush. A nose tackle doesn’t get sacks. There isn’t a nose tackle in the league that leads his team in sacks. The nose tackle helps the other players to get sacks. It would be the same case on the Ravens defense. They can add more fast pass-rushers if they want, but they will only continue to be swallowed up by the offensive line until the defense addresses the real issue.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was using the Cody stat to show how little pressure he would get in the NFL. He doesn’t even have much strength (22 bench reps, 2 more than Dexter McCluster). I understand NT’s aren’t supposed to get a high number of sacks, but at the college level you’d think one dumb QB would have fallen into his gut (It’s kinda hard to miss).

I get your point about another NT clogging up the middle and creating more opportunities for other players, in theory that works. I think we already have enough big bodies to do exactly that, and we kinda played that way this year.

The real issue (if there is one) is our OLB’s couldn’t regularly dominate in 1 on 1 match-ups. JJ and Suggs were routinely left with one guy to beat and couldn’t do it. Ngata was being double and sometimes triple teamed and still made tremendous plays. We already got one of the best big fatties (Ngata) in the game. We don’t need another fatty to hold and stand still on the line.

Bottom line is, our D is already good enough(3rd overall) to win a championship, our O isn’t. We need to draft a TE and WR early.

by BmoreBlitz on Apr 16, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cody - He doesn’t even have much strength (22 bench reps, 2 more than Dexter McCluster).

Bench stats are nice at the gym, but i wouldn’t draw the conclusion that he isn’t strong. Size, leg strength, and playing with leverage would be more valued.

Ryan Clady for Denver only repped 17 during the combine…

I agree with all of your other points, but I wouldn’t be heartbroken if we draft a DT, DE, CB. BPA!!!

by 60minuteassassin on Apr 16, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

as far as next year goes

we’re totally set at WR. Boldin, Mason, and Stallworth could be a very threatening WR corps, PLUS we still have some guy named Ray Rice who is a major nightmare. Next year’s draft will be just as deep at WR as this year’s is.

Also, we could have real glaring weaknesses at DL if we wait another year. I dont trust Gregg anymore and I agree completely with Hawk’s write-up that we need a guy who demands double-teams on the inside. It’s pretty-much the same thing Minny does in their 43: the Williams wall eats blocks and Allen blows guys doors off to the outside. If we could absorb all those inside blocks, you can bet that Suggs and JJ would do better on passing downs.

I dont think the issue was OLBs dominating in 1v1 matchups. You saw suggs beat his man but then get picked up by a RB quite often—that gives the QB the one extra second he needs to get rid of the ball.

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 17, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I LIKE THE KRUGER NGATA REDDING LINE UP, BUT DO U THINK THAT THEY WILL GIVE KRUGER THE NOD AND NOT DRAFT A DEFENSIVE LINEMAN EARLY?

by Raven_all_day on Apr 16, 2010 9:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Yea I think they do. Ozzie usually doesn’t miss on 2nd rounders. He wouldn’t draft a guy that high if he doesn’t have the potential to be a starter.

It wasn’t our Defense that only put up three points against Indy too. The games advantages are on the offensive side of the football now. We need to use early picks to become explosive on offense, our D is already top 5. If we do go Defense 1st round, I’d like to see us get a tall physical corner.

by BmoreBlitz on Apr 16, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kruger has the potential to become a premier player on the defense, but as I said above, he will need help. Kruger is not a typical 3-4 defensive end. I love his technique in run defense, so he won’t be a liability in that department. Kruger’s strengths are his intelligence, technique and length. Length comes into play as a defensive end vying for leverage against offensive tackles. Kruger will never be the interior rusher that Pryce was, but that’s not what the Ravens drafted him for.

I believe that the Ravens envision Kruger as a hybrid 3-4/4-3 defensive end. He’s smart enough to drop into coverage, strong enough to hold up at the point of attack and long enough with good technique to press the pocket. He’s not an edge rusher per se, but he will get to the quarterback in a hurry in the Ravens defense. He just needs to add a few pounds and be able to play outside the tackle more.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

ok i understand

but i wouldn’t never say that kruger would not be a interior rusher like trevor price, you just don’t know what he can until he gets on the field

by jazz20 on Apr 16, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. I was basing my assessment off college film that I’ve watched on Kruger. I hope that I’m pleasantly surprised.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do agree that Kruger is a tweener when it comes to a 4-3 end or 3-4 hybrid, but I can only believe that he will have a huge impact on our pass rush for years to come. We will find a way for him
to be successfull.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 16, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

And we saw the impact he can have when on the field. That interception was a thing of beauty.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 16, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hate to be a pessimist

Kruger taking on double teams at the point? Guy’s going from edge rusher to stacking at the point. I don’t know about Kruger. I guess your point of him not having to do it full time is cause for optimism.

by Ravens One on Apr 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

now thats a damn good article, Hawk

dAN williams would be great but a lot of ppl see Odrick shooting up draft boards and seems more likely to be there at 25. thoughts?

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 16, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks.

I cannot see Odrick slipping past the Patriots, but if he does, I think he’d be a great pick.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

sold!

that is one of the most cogent arguments for a position that ive seen anywhere. nicely done!

by nwalls on Apr 16, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Nicely done

It is going to be interesting to see our lineup next year on the line. There are so many combinations of players we could go with. My “ideal” D-Line for next year would be Ngata, Dan Williams/Cody, Kruger. I think that is the Line we need and want to build for the future. I do have a feeling that we will see Cory Redding in on very many plays, as he has been very solid over his career at the Left End spot.

Williams or Cody are perfect for our 3-4. Williams is more like Ngata, and Cody is more like Gregg, muchhhhhhhh more. So either one of those guys would help. Getting push through the middle of the line forces QB’s outside. There are not many QB’s who do well outside of the pocket, even the elite ones. With a dominant NT, we could afford to blitz pretty hard on 3rd downs, because our speed to the QB would be so much greater with a dominant NT.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 16, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice comparison. Williams does remind me a little of Ngata but more of Kevin Williams in Minnesota. Gregg was an awesome nose tackle in his day… a superior technician. I’ve never seen a defensive lineman use his hands and leverage like Gregg. Offensive lineman needed to double him not because of his size but because he was nearly impossible to block one-on-one.

Cody reminds me… a little… of Shaun Rogers. Cody is more unmovable and Rogers may be a better penetrator, but they both play nose tackle with the same type of natural agility for a big man. They both also devour blocks. Really… there isn’t a nose tackle in the league right now that compares very well to Cody. He’s very unique. That’s another reason that I like him. I think that he’d become a marquee player for the Ravens.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

plus we like our Alabama guys

I’m pretty much sold on Cody

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 17, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, that is going to play a huge part in this

Ozzie likes his Bama Boys. JJ and LeRon. Cody is next.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 17, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

What if they drafted Cody and Jackson? Would Ozzie be accused of being a homer?

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, those are 2 of the top 5 at their positions in the this year. But I can only believe that Bama had justtttttttt a little bit to do with it lol.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 17, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kareem in the first

and Cody in the 2nd works for me. Would Ozzie be a proud “papa!?”

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Apr 17, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am convinced that people who say that Cody doesn’t get pressure on the QB or that he has weight problems and isn’t athletic have never seen him play… or didn’t read Hawk’s article closely. IMHO, Dan Williams is rated higher but Cody will make other players better. I personally prefer one guy who will make 4 people better than one guy making plays by himself. Williams is stout but smallish for a true NT. He is not built like a Jamal Wiilliams, Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork. He also has shorter arms which makes it difficult to shed blockers. His strength is his low center of gravity and balance. It doesn’t matter how strong a person is, if they lack balance they will lose the fight (period). His balance allows him to exhibit a flash of quickness on one-one battles in the interior. This helps to get him into the backfield to put individual pressure on the QB. While this may sound like a good thing, if I had my choice of who is rushing the QB on single coverage it would be Suggs or JJ any day of the week and not Dan Williams. Also, because of that flash of quickness, Williams doesn’t see one-one coverage. He will see chips and the occasional double team. Because he doesn’t have the arm length to shed that extra blocker, he often gets swallowed up in the middle and becomes ineffective at what he does best. OL’s can adequately scheme him out of plays with 1.5 or 2 guys at the most. On the other hand, the only scheme to stop Cody is more bodies, more bodies, more bodies. He is not an elite athlete, but you will never see less than double coverage on him (chips don’t work from guards and RBs). On run support he doesn’t push the pocket but eats up blockers and waits at the line of scrimmage like a wall. On pass rush, he will push the center back on his initial burst and force the guard and RB to come up to help. Thats 3 people. Will he make the sack (no) but its a simple math equation. 3 guys to 1 equals 2 other guys free on defense. This is not an anomaly. He does this darn near every time. Saban would not have had him out there if this was not the case. I have watched a ton of tape on the kid, and I can’t believe how much better our pass rush would be with Ngata, Cody, and Redding/Pryce/ Kruger. He is not the sexy pick, but the better one.

by talkingsmack on Apr 16, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree with everything you said about Cody. Players of his size and strength at NT make everyone sound him better immediately.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 16, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Well said. I’ve liked Cody to the Ravens for a long time. I think that he’ll be the next William “Refrigerator” Perry on the Ravens defense.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

if we draft him

Cody and Ngata will need to sit on opposite sides of the team airplane in order to make sure the damn thing doesnt flip over on takeoff

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 17, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

They’ll probably want to ride with the opposing team’s quarterback so that he can get use to them being right in his face.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cody will breastfeed opposing QBs just so they can get comfortable with having his tits on their faces.

the he will eat them like the babies he loves. Terriaki Baby, cody style

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 17, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Love to see them give us

 A Big Ben Cody-Ngata sandwich!

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Apr 17, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lots of unwanted imagery there.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I prefer Chipotle Baby. Little bit of kick to it….

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 17, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Get in my Belly!!!” I am bigger on the food chain than you!

by talkingsmack on Apr 17, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another excellent piece Hawk

You make a compelling case for a Zero technique to drafted high. I’m now on baord with that thought process. It’s Price before Cody for me.

by Ravens One on Apr 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I like Price too. Watching tape on that kid is truly enjoyable. He plays with passion each snap. I would love to have him with Bmore. I still give the edge to Mt. Cody over him for a few reasons. Price doesn’t have good lower body leverage like a Dan Williams. Because of this he loses his balance easy with a good OL swat. His athleticism allows him to recover quickly but we all know that big plays only take a second to happen. If he gets knocked to the ground, in the NFL they will fall on you and bury you. You are out of the play completely. They also hold big time in the NFL on every single down unlike college so, you can get thrown to the ground and not just pushed. No one will ever take Cody to the ground (period). The only person I see taking Cody out of plays is himself. If he loses motivation, gets lazy, or can’t control his weight then he loses the best part of his skill set that makes him a dominate zero technique NT. On the other side, Price, for all of his hustle and physicality, he too was only a 2 down player at UCLA. Hard to believe but true. He doesn’t have good stamina and had to be taken out on defensive series for rest breaks all the time.

by talkingsmack on Apr 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting point on Price

I have heard Price be called fatboy. Not sure why his short comings are not discussed and yet Cody’s are on the table all the time.

by Ravens One on Apr 16, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like Price. He has the most quickness and explosion of all defensive lineman in this class. That’s saying something because he’s technically a nose tackle (6’1 300 lb). He just doesn’t control the entire center like Cody. Williams has the best of both… he’s big and explosive. Really, I’d be extremely happy with any of them.

Price also comes from very rough childhood like Oher. Two of his brothers were murdered growing up in the ghettos of south LA.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to admit about a month ago I would have said no way to drafting a nose tackle, but I am beginning to like it more and more. There are so many routes we could go in this draft and what’s great for us is the draft is loaded with players at our positions of needs. Whoever we decide to pick, i’m sure will be a great player for us.

by AV23 on Apr 16, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

It was reported the ravens were interested in Ginn, but he was just traded to the 49ers.

by AV23 on Apr 16, 2010 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea, watch out for the 49ers this year. They have some serious talent on that team already and have 2 high draft picks. Singeltary is going to do great things with them. I also think Alex Smith will breakout this yet. He was surrounded by a pretty bad offense the last few years, but with Crabtree, Davis, Ginn, Morgan, Gore, that is a dangerous and very young group.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 16, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the golden nuggets will be better this year too, but I think people should really check them the following year. Their talent will have a chance to grow up and Alex Smith would literally be in his 3rd real year of consecutive play. Thats when most QBs come on strong. I don’t see him as being any different regardless of his longer tenure in the league. I believe QBs get better when they play, not when someone else is playing.

by talkingsmack on Apr 16, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

but how much longer will a bully-back like Gore stay dominant?

i give him one or two more years before he recedes a la Jamal Lewis

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 17, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heard Clemson's

CJ Spiller will go to them.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Apr 17, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally, I am not a big Spiller fan. I definitely think the kid has talent, but he doesn’t impress me as an RB who runs in between the tackles. People can say that is because he is not a big back but I disagree. I think it is a personal choice. He doesn’t want to take the hits and relies too much on speed. Small backs, if they are tough, will run between the tackles… take CJ2K and our own Ray Rice. Not the biggest guys in the world but they make it happen up the one and three holes.

I think it shows a lack of toughness and in the NFL where you have quicker LBs, faster DEs, stronger safeties, and more games per season…. you need to have a RB that can go every down. Sweep plays are not every down plays. Screens are not every down plays. Eventually the RB has to show some sack and run in between the tackles. Bouncing plays to the outside every time just doesn’t cut it. You become predictable and eventually a third down only back. And no team should spend top 10 first round draft pick money on a third down back. He is not CJ2k (that type of talent just doesn’t happen every draft). I am not going to say he is a bust but Reggie Bush is looking more like a 3rd to 4th round pick every year he stays in the league and underperforms. I hope CJ Spiller proves me wrong and plays like CJ2K.

by talkingsmack on Apr 17, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he'd be a great complement to Gore

and sort of the combination similar to Chris Johnson and Lendale White in Tenn.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Apr 18, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

McGahee

I believe it was Harbs who said that he always knew what kind of game he was going to get from Willis the first time he gave him the ball: if he bounced it outside, he benched him; if he ran it up and in, his number would get called again and again. Point is, like smack says, you have to run it inside.

by vlad755 on Apr 19, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

im taking them in my team draft. without warner its their division to lose

by davver on Apr 16, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

If the 49ers have a good draft it will their division to lose.

by Ravens One on Apr 16, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

One comment about Kelly Gregg. Not too many people can argue that Kelly is the poster child for being a Raven. He is tough as nails (like Buddy Lee). No matter what happens to him physically he keeps coming back. Well, this year should be better than last year based on additional recovery time from the micro-fracture surgery (and he really began to step up his game towards the end of the season)… but he also had surgery in the off season for his shoulder which has bothered him for several years. He is going into his 12th season and truth be told, the body does hold up in year 12 as it does in year 3. Not all of our players are physical marvels like Ray. I love Kelly, but this year might be his last with us regardless of how well he plays this season. Call me crazy, but we might draft two DL’s this year since it is such a deep draft. Odrick if available at 25, and if we get a high 2nd for Gaither (big if) then Cody in the 2nd. If that doesn’t happen then oh well, but I think the Ravens really value their interior DL play and want it to get younger even more than the CBs.

by talkingsmack on Apr 16, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions  

ya niners will be tough in a division that is up for grabs.

by AV23 on Apr 16, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I laugh every time I see that picture of Gregg above. Him flexing with his giant belly sweat stain is great.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 16, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

NT would be great.

Ozzie is going to take the best player available to help out the pass defense though, whether that be DT, DE or CB. Either way, I think we are bound to come out of this years draft a winner, even without a 3rd and 4th round pick.

by mlb32001 on Apr 16, 2010 5:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Good, sound argument

These are the type of articles and subsequent debates that keep me coming back here. Keep em comin. I swear, there should be some sort of contest to see who accurately predicts who the Oz selects…

by robgoose on Apr 16, 2010 5:23 PM EDT reply actions  

GREAT ARTICLE

Being in Georgia allows me to see plenty of SEC football. I’ve been eyeing Cody for a few years now as an ideal Raven. Don’t let his size fool you. The guy has video tape of him dunking a basketball. His legs are very strong. No he will not be a sack machine, but he will plow anything in the way of Lewis and Ellerbe. The guy is a monster. So what he only had 22 reps at bench. He will out weigh anybody that lines up against him by 75lbs plus. The guy lives in the backfield. As Hawk said, they will try to form a pocket in the shape of a bow. Cody will push that middle of the pocket and not allow the QB to step up from outside pressure. Name one DT, other than Ngata, that is a consistent threat in the pass rush. Inside pressure is generated from DE stunts and LB blitz more than from DT.

by Georgia Raven on Apr 16, 2010 5:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Great Work Hawk

I would love me some Dan Williams if he slipped to us. You see him dominating Iupati at the Senior Bowl?

Maybe the Steelers will draft Iupati and we get Williams so we can get to see that match up twice a year.

by DT711 on Apr 16, 2010 6:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I like Cody just as much as any of u but whats the difference between him and Brandon Montgomery besides height. Both of them are massive

by Raven_all_day on Apr 16, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you mean Brandon McKinney? If so, here’s the difference.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 16, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea thats what i meant

So him saving that guys life is the only difference. I think it was a overall vote that all we needed was Cody to suck up blockers, McKinney can do that he’s huge. So why use a first or second round pick on Cody?

by Raven_all_day on Apr 17, 2010 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I was obviously referencing his athleticism. Not many 375 pound guys can jump over people and stay on their feet.

He’s a rare talent. There aren’t many guys on the planet that big who can move like that.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 17, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

One stat that separates Cody from all the other candidates for our interior DL or NT… after joining Alabama and starting, they never had a 100 yd rusher. In fact he helped to hold one team to 2 yds!!! Now, I know this is not the end all be all of things but seriously… doesn’t that sound like a Ravens defensive profile? I mean we pride ourselves on not only stopping the run but punishing RBs. Last year, we lost a step and without improvement on the DL we can get beat. Not only did we end our 100 yd rushing streak last year but we let Cincy’s Benson do it twice. The secret to stopping the passing game IMHO is to make them a one dimensional team. Eliminating the run allows our DE’s and LBs to get more involved in pressure plays. Not to mention the fact that it psychologically damages the opposition. If you can’t run the ball, how do you slow down the clock/ keep possession of the football/ control tempo/ wear down defenses/ convert tough third downs to move the chains/ convert in the redzone (the list goes on and on). Putting Cody in the middle puts the Ravens D back in rare form again. We have some pretty balanced teams in the AFC north this year. Cincy can now throw and run. Pittsburgh found an air attack last year and Cleveland (like it or not) has a quarterback with a legitimate arm for stretching the field (and we had a tough time stopping Jerome Harrison when we played them). We need to make these teams feel the pressure to get out of game plan and throw the rock all the time. Its our unspoken advantage and we can’t allow an aging DL or the wrong DL personnel to take that swagger away.

by talkingsmack on Apr 17, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

About his abilities against the run

I think that if we draft Cody, that will definitely play a huge part into it. It is not just a coincidence that teams weren’t going for 100 on them, Cody was THAT good that he impacted that defense right away and in a huge way.

So many people have the wrong impression about Cody as well. The first thing they look at is his weight and irregular body type. So the guy wasn’t born with the Terrel Owens frame, but he is not just some obese fatty. You watch his tape and the drills from his pro day and combine, his footwork is incredible for a guy that is pushing 360 pounds.

And if people think he is lazy because of his weight, he dropped from 370 pounds to 350 pounds between the Senior Bowl and the combine. That is an incredible work ethic if you can drop that much weight that fast. I would love to see his work out regime when he gets in there with Ray and crew.

And we are all forgetting the most important factor about Cody………..HE HAS DREADS! I rest my case.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 17, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did not know THAT (dreads!)

But are we willing to get a 1st rounder that only plays two downs a set? I’m leaning towards yes after all the positive and intellectual comments here on The Beatdown. Guys here have so much more in depth knowledge than most of the guys in the media and on TV/radio. Stats and body of work on the field teach us so much more than these fun but pretty worthless Mock’s.

I want me some ’bama boys (Cody & Kareem Jackson)!

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Apr 18, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

doubt we could get both of them

but i’d take either one. getting both of them would be just magnificent.

"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden

by jackmca on Apr 18, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with that draft at all. And I agree that some of us here know more about this team than the guys who get paid to write about this team.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 18, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

great articles

Hawk, I love your stuff. Some more things I’d be interested in from football 101:
How about the corners and safeties in our defense or others? What are their positions like? I hear a lot about complex coverages, but what are these coverages like? And what’s Cover 2, exactly?
What is Cam Cameron’s offense? How is it different from Billick’s? How about the West Coast Offense?
The tv commentators and other writers use these terms and never explain them; I look forward to learning more from you!

by Brian Adams on Apr 18, 2010 6:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Thank you! I’m going to do my next article on coverage schemes. You’re actually the second person to suggest this.

 I really appreciate these suggestions. If anyone else has any, I’m all ears.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 18, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Break down what play like a Raven really means…..

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 18, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whew… that’s a tall order. It would be easier to have Bruce ask Harbaugh in person at the next press conference.

I’m sure that Harbs would be happy to break it down for everyone.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 18, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is Harbaugh's explination of playing like a Raven.

“Tough, physical, lots of integrity, has to have half his family on the sideline at once, heart of a lion, shovel in one hand, sword in another, more integrity, a little more lion heart, some more family members, tough, strong, maybe a 3rd cousin.”

That is playing like a Raven.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 18, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot hard-nosed.

by BAL_Hawk on Apr 18, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then they made patches for them to put on their jerseys during practice with a sword and shovel on it.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Apr 19, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

No Huddle

In your explanation, you pointed out some of the weaknesses the Ravens suffered last year on defense and I think that is why teams would go no huddle on us so much. Opposing offenses would run on a typical run down, with our run package defense and then quickly go no huddle while our run defense was on the field before we could switch them off.

by vlad755 on Apr 19, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

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