Combine Workouts: Worthless?
Due to the flurry of free agent signings and trades, the NFL Scouting Combine, which ended last week seems to have been pushed under the rug. A lot of interesting news came out of Indianapolis last week, but was it all worthwhile and did anyone actually up their draft stock as a result of the workouts, compared to their bodies of work out on the football field?
Scouts raise their eyebrows when a great 40 yard dash time is displayed. However, we've now seen some huge discrepancies between the unofficial and official times. USC safety Taylor Mays ran a scorching unofficial 40-yard dash, but when the time was considered official, it went from scorching to just fast. Did that hurt, help or not change his draft status? If the 4.24 unofficial time had stuck, it probably would have perked up the interest of some NFL teams, but the 4.43 official time just sent the scouts back to their notebooks. Mays' play at USC should tell a lot more about his NFL potential than any of the results from the Combine.
The same goes for anyone else who was invited to Indy last week, regardless of their position. Watching the offensive linemen run the 40-yard dash is not only a waste of time, but disturbing when we have to see former Alabama offensive tackle Andre' Smith run it with his shirt off. The Baltimore Ravens drafted offensive tackle Michael Oher with their first pick in the draft even though he did not finish in the top ten of offensive linemen in the 40-yard dash.
Prior to the 2009 NFL Draft, I really lobbied for the Ravens to grab North Carolina WR Hakeem Nicks, but his 40-yard dash time at the Combine was average at best. However, there is a huge difference between straight line speed and "football" speed, as Nicks enjoyed a fine rookie season with the New York Giants while speedster and top ten draft pick Darrius Heyward-Bey was gobbled up by the Oakland Raiders and spent a good part of the season on the bench.
The Ravens did take a couple of players that had great 40-yard dash times in 2009. Third round pick Lardarius Webb posted the top cornerback dash (4.46), ahead of highly-touted first round pick, Vontae Davis. Virginia RB Cedric Peerman ran a 4.45 forty, tops among the running back class that feature first round picks Donald Brown's 4.51(Indianapolis Colts) and Chris "Beanie" Wells' 4.59 (Arizona Cardinals). The Ravens let Peerman go at the end of Training Camp, although he was picked up by the Cleveland Browns.
Maryland native and former Florida cornerback Joe Haden is projected to be one of the top ten picks in April's NFL Draft, but his 40-yard dash time was pedestrian at best, even disappointing to Haden himself. However, that should not deter NFL teams, with the Cleveland Browns looking to grab Haden in many Mock drafts. His example is a classic one that should have most NFL Draft Boards largely unchanged as a results of the workouts at the Combine last week. The only guys who might improve their chances are the little known players who otherwise might have gone unnoticed except for their excellent results in Indianapolis. That might affect the later rounds of the draft, but doubtful will they sway teams to make significant changes to their targets in April.
For more recap on the NFL Scouting Combine, plus all of the recent signings and trades, check out NFL.com.
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49 comments
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Comments
Maybe it's just me...
but I think the real reason for putting he players through a horse and pony show is to see how they handle the day to day media spot light in the NFL. Did Andre Smith’s 40 hurt him? Hell yeah it did but it wasn’t due to his time. The kid showed he wasn’t ready to handle the pressure and blew off his commitments. That and he wasn’t willing to stay in shape from the end of the college season to pro day. I cannot help but believe his hold out was directly led to his foot injury.
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace"
by UMBC Oriole fan on Mar 7, 2010 10:48 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but
he was still the fifth overall pick in the draft, so how did it hurt his wallet?
aka 'Rexx'
So true…
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 7, 2010 10:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would say...
pretty significantly considering the messy hold out and how most of his money was tied into performance bonuses…which sure as hell didn’t kick in because his fat ass stayed at home and he wasn’t ready for practice, hence the broken foot. Unless Smith gets healthy, stays in shape, and actually makes it through a season, he is a clear bust. It’s a shame because the guy clearly has talent, but he showed at Alabama and so far in the league, that his decision making is not the best. And his agent was clearly a moron.
To be clear, I don’t think it was all Mike Brown’s fault, but there was a obvious reason why the dude didn’t have a season like Oher did. I honestly feel that had both been available at the same time, the Ravens still would have pick Oher.
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace"
by UMBC Oriole fan on Mar 8, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think
the combine is overrated, but it has it’s place. Think about those guys who aren’t big names and are trying to make a name for themselves. They are the ones who really benefit from the combine (when they do well). The agility and position drills show coaches how the player moves. I think coaches really want to know all those things about the guy their team will invest all that money in. Obviously, the combine shouldn’t be THE determining factor in drafting a player, but it has its place. That drill where the players run and catch balls from either side and drop them immediately is retarded.
by PurpleNorangeNbeer on Mar 7, 2010 1:34 PM EST reply actions
I think there should be an option in the middle. Combine isn’t pointless, but it doesn’t tell everything.
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Mar 7, 2010 2:42 PM EST reply actions
I think it is really important
It shows raw skill, and that still matters how you will do in the NFL. Watching the LB do their drills, you could see that Spikes lacked fluent hip rotation, which that performance in that drill most likely just dropped him to a sure fire 2nd round pick.
People question how fast Golden Tate was, always saying he was more quick than fast. Boom, he comes out and runs in the 4.3.
Yes, the combine means nothing to hitting someone, but it is a great way to have a first impression on the coaches and scouts. You think the combine didn’t matter for Bruce Campbell?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Nope, even Campbell
was already a first round pick and he still will be. Only the lower round picks might move up, occasionally someone gets into the first round.
aka 'Rexx'
Yea, he was a first round pick, but his combine put him as a top 10 pick.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Doubtful and definitely will be surprised
if Campbell is top ten. First round definitely, but not top 10.
aka 'Rexx'
Wouldn't
you say the same thing about Heyward-Bey last year? Al Davis is insane. Anything could happen. He drafted Janikowski in the 1st round.
by PurpleNorangeNbeer on Mar 7, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Good points. I think for most players, the game tape is 90% of the evaluation process. The combine workouts help scouts determine whether a certain player’s game translates to the NFL or not.
A player might dominate at college speeds, but his style and abilities might not work in the NFL since the average NFL player has the ability to change direction and make decisions in a heartbeat.
Agreed
as I said, there is a huge difference between pure speed and football speed. Look around the league and there are a ton of quick guys with average or worse 40 times.
aka 'Rexx'
Wonder what Ray's 40 time was?
Because to me he’s the fastest LB sideline-to-sideline in the league’s history.
aka 'Rexx'
When I hear speed and ray lewis in the same sentence
I think of that play in week 2 against the chargers where he crushed Sproles in the back-field in less than a second.
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 7, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
That was beautiful. He was playing with an other-worldly anticipation that day.
I also loved it when he stopped Peterson on the goal-line twice versus the Vikings. Not many people talk about that since the Vikes eventually scored (through the air), but those stops would have been remembered if they hadn’t given up the TD.
This is an awesome video. Watch it from 2:23 if you want to see the play I’m talking about. It’s worth watching the whole video. It has some cool plays by Ngata.
Yeah but
Ray Lewis is way too undersized to be successful as a line backer in the league. I think history has shown that to be true….
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace"
by UMBC Oriole fan on Mar 8, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Even Ozzie said
Ray didn’t fit the bill when they looked to draft him, which is probably part of the reason he slipped to us in ’96 at #25.
Wonder who will be the next great Raven selected with the 25th pick!?
aka 'Rexx'
The Combines Impact
Every year players are moved up a teams draft board. Workout warriors are given center stage, put on a pedestal and become future Pro Bowl and All-Pro players before putting on a jock strap as a NFL player.
That Combine participates like Bruce Campbell, Taylor Mays, and Jacoby Ford, just to name a few, wowed the GM’s, coaches and some in the media (NFL Network including) with their athletic feats, does not neccessarily mean they are going to be great football players. Too many of the NFL Front Offices get enamored with how a guy looks in his underwear and forget that this is about asking themselves critically——-do the skills of track and field—— translate and have bearing on whether or not a guy wants/ can be a great football player.
Exhibit A: The newly aquired Anquan Boldin. Boldin ran a 4.6 or 4.7 40 at the 2003 combine. As a result, he slipped to the Cardinals and was picked 54 in the second round. The Cardinals used the first pick in the very same draft to pick Bryant Johnson a WR in round 1. Take a guess as to who ran the better 40 time….Byant Johnson. Boldin would go on to set a rookie record in his first game as a pro with 217 receiving and the rest is history. Johnson was/is mediocre and is about to be cut by Lions.
Exhibit B: The greatest WR in NFL History. He did not have a great 40 time either coming out of Missisippi Valley St. Rice never got caught from behind. All he did was dominate at his position like no one had not dominated since Lance “Bambi” Alworth. Rice is now a HOF player.
Exhibit C: Emitt Smith the leading rusher in NFL History. Smith did not run the fastest or jump the highest but he had the one thing that can’t be measured by scout and GM’s and that’s a desire to be the best.
There’s track speed and then there’s functional football speed and strength as it relates to playing in pro football at the various postions. Mistakes have been be made ( see the Rams and Raiders recent drafts) and will continue to be by those veiwing the Combine as a beauty contest and not a small piece of the puzzle to determine who wants to be great and how much of a price they are willing to pay for that greatness.
by Cardsfan81 on Mar 7, 2010 8:17 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I love having you on this blog
LOL this is going green. +1
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 7, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
I appreciate that Warrior
I plan to make a positive contribution and love being here.
Just make sure you are going to get familiar with our team if you want to be a Ravens fan.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
True that
Can’t just know Boldin,Lewis, and Reed if you want to he a real ravens fan. People that only know the good players we tend to call floaydrs…
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 7, 2010 10:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We love having you here
We are desperate for regulars around here. Me, bruce, raven, malor, and stuckinutah is startig to become more active arond here. The fantastic 5…
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 7, 2010 10:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Definately Raven
Bruce is the Thing (Steroid joke, bruce)
I’m mister fantastic. (Don’t ask, you perverts)
Malor is my lady (Ms.Fantastic)
Stuckin Utah really hasn’t earned a FF5 Nickname. Gotta have 2500+ comments and 20+ posts.
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 8, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Thats Cute
Me, bruce, raven, malor, and stuckinutah is startig to become more active arond here. The fantastic 5…
Do you have matching outfits?
by DT711 on Mar 8, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can you say smuggling plums?
Might tighty whities and I’m smuggling plums… name that song and MaLoR gives you a happy ending.
Mope by Bloohound Gang
Time to pay up Malor…..?
"I kill myself in small amounts"
by StuckInUtah on Mar 8, 2010 3:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why does everyone seem to always give me that hardest time? Even the new guys bust on me. Lol.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Because you are the only one who has the word "Mr" in their name
Isn’t that right Mr. Brian Malan?
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 8, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Mines a Boldin Jersey.
The night is darkest right before the dawn
by Baltimore Warrior on Mar 8, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Jacoby Ford
ran a blistering 40, but a very slow 3-cone drill, which shows he has straight line speed but perhaps not “football” speed, which is more important. Ask both Kenny Britt and Hakeem Nicks, slow 40’s but good football speed and solid rook’s this past year.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 9, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This^^^^^
Great examples. Britt and Nicks.















