Ravens Fans: Say "Good-bye" to Kyle Wilson
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 6:00 AM EDT
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On the pages of Baltimore Beatdown, we've been discussing the obvious talents of Boise State cornerback, Kyle Wilson, andwhat he could do as a member of the Baltimore Ravens. If he is there when the Ravens pick at #25 of the first round comes up, then many of us will be screaming at the TV set for Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome to put the pick in for Wilson andbe thrilled we now have a future star to go along with Lardarius Webb as well as Domonique Foxworth.
However, based on the Combine and especially his recent Pro Day, don't expect Wilson to be available when the Ravens selection comes up. In fact, he could be long gone well before that time based on what everyone has seen lately.
According to Aaron Wilson of the Carroll County Times, the Ravens sent secondary coach Chuck Pagano to watch Wilson at Boise State's Pro Day last week and he had to come away impressed. Wilson ran the forty yard dash twice, clocking in at 4.43 and 4.39 seconds in his two attempts. In addition, his other test results were at the top of the charts for all defensive backs at the Combine or since at their Pro Days.
Wilson is considered one of the top corners in this year's draft, behind Florida's (andlocal Maryland product) Joe Haden, who is expected to go in the top ten overall in April's Draft, which begins in prime time on Thursday night, April 22nd. The Ravens have attendeda bunch of Pro Days for other top rated corners, but obviously, Wilson would be a great fit for the long future, bookended withlast year's steal of the draft in the third round, Lardarius Webb.
Video highlights have shown Wilson to be as much of what a "shutdown" corner" should be, blanketing receivers all season andnot afraid to stick his head in to make the tackle as well. Based on his results at both the Combine in February and especially his Pro Day this past week, I fully expect Wilson to go much earlier than Ravens fans would like, whether it be in the mid-late teens and certainly not below the early twenties. At that point, would the Ravens even consider trading up to get him? With all the talent in this year's draft and the fact that the team is already without a third or fourth round pick, it's a higher chance that the Ravens would trade back to get extra picks than to expect them to trade up and lose perhaps more.
SB Nation's Mock Draft, which is currently going on at Mocking the Draft, has the Tennessee Titans grabbing Wilson with the 16th overall pick. While that remains to be seen in the real world, I wouldn't expect a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers to let Kyle slip by with their 18th pick, the Houston Texans at #20 or the New England Patriots with the 22nd overall selection.
Regardless of whom he falls to, Ravens fans can only dream at this point that the guy will be there at #25, but then again, there will be others still on the board in the first and perhaps the second round as well. With this year's draft considered one of the deepest overall in years, something tells me that Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome will do just fine with that pick, whether he utilizes it to find the next great Ravens star, or drops back to add more picks and get a couple of solid pros that will help this team in 2010.
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Don’t count out a draft day trade. Gaither is still worth a 1st round pick to many teams.
Chuck Pagano was at Wilson’s pro day, so you know that they’re looking at him closely.
At this point
I doubt anyone above us would give up a first round pick for Gaither, but I also believe the Ravens would actually settle for a higher second round pick for him.
Perhaps a team like the Colts (late first round) or Rams/Detroit (early second round) would do it. I can see the Rams taking Bradford with their first pick and giving us their second for Gaither and then having a franchise QB and LT. Not a bad move for them. We could then use our first to trade back either for a later first round pick or early second and a third or fourth to fill our blanks in those rounds. Ozzie, are you listening to me?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Rams won't trade for Gaither
They just took Jason Smith with the 2nd overall pick last year to play LT. Doubt they would give up that early of a 2nd for Gaither to play RT.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Wilson
He looks like a great player, but it is not the Ravens style to trade up for a guy who performs well in workouts. It is more likely they trade up for a guy who slips, or stay where we are and take a guy who slips. Suggs, Ngata, and Oher were all projected to go higher than they did in their drafts, and we snatched them when they slipped. The only time I remember Ozzie trading up in the 1st round in the past decade to grab a player who slipped is to grab Boller (am I wrong?)
If Wilson goes earlier, then it just means another good athlete who was projected to go higher will slip to us. Whether it be one of the D-lineman or a WR or Gresham, I have no doubt OZzie will get value. I can’t wait!
I also think Gaither will get drafted/traded closer to the draft for a late 1st or for a early 2nd and 3rd/4th. We need picks, and plenty of teams need stud LT’s.
True, but most teams pick before the Ravens. If Gaither is traded for a first rounder, Wilson would be a nice pick.
The only question is… are we willing to trade Gaither for Wilson?
I would make that "trade" in a heartbeat
and the other guy we traded up for that you might have heard of is Joe Flacco. However, we originally traded back then up to get him, so that might not count.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
my thoughts
exactly. we traded out of the 1st round, then back into the later 1st. doesn’t count!
by Rayisyourdaddy on Mar 28, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
didnt we trade up for oher?
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Mar 28, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
We traded up for Flacco
Remember we had to trade up from like 26 to 18 to get him.
by Dfense4champs2052 on Apr 5, 2010 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Hawk
It is really Gaither for Wilson at half the price. Don’t forget the cap! Gaither is going to want big, LT money, Wilson will sign for what every late 1st rounder signs for: around 4 years, 20 million. Gaither will want double that, with a large amount guaranteed. And then we will have to give Oher a similar amount in a few years. Gaither doesn’t have what it takes to be a superstar, so we can’t afford to pay him like one. He doesn’t have the work ethic, nor does he play through pain like JO always did. I say cut him loose if you get a solid offer.
by Rayisyourdaddy on Mar 28, 2010 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Couldn't agree more
“rec’d” this comment by Rayis… (you all should do the same to turn it green!)
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know.
Sure… We’ve got Oher, but you can never have enough tackles. Gaither isn’t going to get a huge contract. I’m sure he’ll be well paid, but it’s not going to break the bank. Gaither is a top-three talent (physically) at tackle and is still only twenty-three, the age of many rookies, with two years starting experience. His career is all up from here, so if the Ravens give him a long-term deal, they will be getting his best years at the best price. I tend to think that retaining players like Gaither is what makes a championship team.
I don’t really understand why everyone wants to trade him all of the sudden. I think that he’s worth a first round pick… at the very least. Think of it this way… if Gaither was in this year’s draft, he would be the first tackle off the board. Why should the Ravens give him up for any less? I think that trading him for a first rounder is attractive for one reason only… money, but like I said before, he’s not going to get an insane contract.
The only reason why money is an issue is because rookies are paid much less than players with two years experience and tackles are one of the higher paid positions. That’s fine, but look at it on the other hand. As much as we all love Wilson, he is an unproven talent. With Gaither, the team knows exactly what their getting. To me that is a very, very good reason to side with Gaither. Basically, Gaither is an unbustable rookie with NFL experience since he is so young. He has questions about his attitude, and it’s not know whether he will resign with the Ravens. However, I’m thinking that keeping Gaither versus trading him for a first round pick is a split decision and could go either way. I definitely would not take less than a first round pick!
But you have to agree
that the Ravens didn’t draft Oher to be the RT for long, so why layt out the big signing bonus for Gaither when you know it’s only a matter of time until Oher takes over at LT and there’s NFW the Ravens are paying Gaither big bucks to be RT. Besides, IMO Oher is a better LT than Gaither RIGHT NOW.
So trade Giather while his value is at it’s absolute highest and get a first or second rounder that we can parlay into a later second rounder and either a 3rd or 4th rounder in addition.
Easy decision, no brainer.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Gaither
There are three things that affect the true value of Gaither on the open market———the depth of OT’s in this draft, he’s not a QB ( teams will overpay for unproven talent, see Whitehurst trade) and his medical history. Teams may be scared off a little bit becuase of the neck injury that Gaither suffered during the season.
I agree, Gaither is worth a 1st round pick but teams know that Ozzie probably wants to move Gaither and so Ozzie is dealing from a position of weakness as opposed to the other way around. The fact that Gaither has proved competent works as a blessing and a curse because a team trading for Gaither will have to pay him. Teams can also use the lack of CBA as an excuse to not enter into conversation on Gaither. A 2nd round pick for Gaither may be the ceiling.
I agree with your logic in a trade scenario, but the consessions that the Ravens need to make in order to move Gaither are precisely why keeping him looks like an attractive option. If they need to go out of their way and settle for less than Gaither’s value, why in the world would they trade him? I doesn’t make sense to me and is probably why a deal hasn’t been made yet.
I have ignored this whole thread, becausde all of the coments are longer than 2 lines..
Takes too long to read.
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by Zachary Beard on Mar 28, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I enjoy a good discussion, and most thoughts in a good discussion take more than two lines to convey.
ah, as true as that may be
Your above sentence is two lines. Long discussions are only good in real-life, when you don’t have to read them.
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by Zachary Beard on Mar 29, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Long discussions are only good in real-life, when you don’t have to read them.
So… Having a long discussions on this blog isn’t good? I’m sorry, but I’m just not seeing where you’re going with this.
Everyone has a little A.D.D, long comments are my weakness
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by Zachary Beard on Mar 29, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Gaither is trade bait NOW
If we wait all year, then we end up with zilch as he becomes a FA and we only perhaps get a Compensatory Pick in 2011 at the best. Is that worth it? Maybe, maybe not. If we could be asked if we’d keep him if it meant going to the Super Bowl with him, I’d keep him. Otherwise, I’d move Oher and try to find a RT on roster or thru draft/FA.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 30, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I like how you post a long comment right under my comment
That says I hate long comments…
Ben petition:
http://www.repetitionr.com/repetitions/ben-roethlisberger-needs-to-stop-getting-into-trouble/e0ccf0b0-8cec-102d-8483-0030483394fa/success
by Zachary Beard on Mar 30, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I resent that
I run track and I run a 4.6 40 yard dash. SO technically I am an “athletic pseudo-dyslexic jackass.” Get it right!
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by Zachary Beard on Mar 29, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
4.6 forty?
Four minutes and sixty seconds?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 30, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm 17 Bruce
Running back for my high-school, and I am on track. No going to play football in college, though, because I refuse to don a uniform that has Clemson or University of South Carolina on it.
Ben petition:
http://www.repetitionr.com/repetitions/ben-roethlisberger-needs-to-stop-getting-into-trouble/e0ccf0b0-8cec-102d-8483-0030483394fa/success
by Zachary Beard on Mar 30, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
When you gorow up around SC, you learn to hate both schools.
My comments aren't random, you just can't think as fast as me....
by Zachary Beard on Mar 31, 2010 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions
You make a compelling case
And a bird in hand is safer than one over head (no pun intended). You may very well get your way and Gaither remains a Raven as I don’t see teams being willing to fork over a 1st for Gaither. If Ozzie really wanted to move Gaither, he would have put a 2nd round tender on Gaither and not the 1st. Would I be upset if Gaither stays put….no. I would like us to get 3rd and 4th round picks some way some how however.
All Ravens fans should be happy to have Gaither. He’s an awesome, talented player.
No one knows what kind of players the Ravens could get with whatever picks they could trade Gaither for. It’s not like the Ravens are settling by keeping Gaither. If we start thinking like that, we would be a little spoiled by our elite front office.
For crying out loud… they drafted an elite talent with a fifth round pick and now we’re worried about paying him. Just pay the guy and thank your lucky stars that we’re the ones who drafted him. If (and only if) the Ravens can get adequate compensation, they should trade him because they have Oher. They hold all of the cards, and to think otherwise would be folly. They don’t need more picks. They still have their first and second round picks and don’t have many needs to fill.
Gaither and / or Ngata can be franchised or transition tagged as well. I don’t know what the situation is going to be for football in 2011, but I’m guessing we can still apply both tags before 2011 (if we need a way to hold onto both these guys).
We do need to keep Gaither, two great tackles are such a force. As much as ppl complain about Gaither’s work ethic, come game time, he’s always in the line up if he physically can be. He played 2008 practically with one arm, and we made it to the AFC championship game.
Gaither's Maturity
I believe people forget he is only 23. He is essentially the age of an NFL rookie, so he is going to act like a lot of NFL rookies in terms of work ethic, playing with pain, etc; these are all things that for the most part need to be learned once a player reaches the NFL. They are learned from the Shannon Sharpe’s, Ray Lewis’s, Matt Birk’s, Ed Reed’s, Derick Mason’s of a team.
I know I voted in an earlier poll about Gaither, but I believe we would be fools to trade him. Having two quality LT’s is a good problem to have. Better the known quantity rather than the unknown quantity in this case.
I completely agree about Gaither's caliber as a player
and that having bookend tackles is wonderful and any team would love to have that. But the problem is it might be hard to keep because teams are always looking for left tackles. I think there hasn’t been a ton of trade talk for Gaither because of the depth at tackle in this draft combined with the fact that he will be an unrestricted free agent next year. I think the Ravens will have a hard time keeping him if he gets to that point, considering we also have to sign Ngata, so the best thing to do might be to try and get some value for him while we can.
If the Ravens can sign him long term in the near future, that’s great. Best case scenario. Then use the draft to fill our other needs, which aren’t even that many.
by klunker18 on Mar 29, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If the Ravens can sign him long term in the near future, that’s great. Best case scenario. Then use the draft to fill our other needs, which aren’t even that many.
If the Ravens resign Ngata, they could use the franchise tag to leverage Gaither into a long-term deal.
Tags
And I do not mean the former NFL commish…
I know I was giving the benefit of the doubt to Gaither above, but if he truly has attitude issues, tagging him would be a disaster.
Besides, who knows what the CBA will look like 2011? May not have tags and may be very different from what has been in place the past few years.
RT
Okay, so we ship Gaither for a draft pick, who may or may not work out.
In case y’all forgot, RT was a problem area for many years for the Ravens (Kipp Vickers, Dale Hellestrae, Ethan Brooks, Brian Rimpf, Tony Pashos for anybody? Remember them?), Harry Swayne notwithstanding (which was a one-year solution anyway). I am just not keen on losing Gaither and having, who, Marshal Yanda? Cousins? Tony Moll? as the starting RT for sixteen games plus playoffs -yikes! Those guys I just mentioned provide solid depth; they are not quality full season starters.
So my question: who plays RT then? And do not say that Ozzie will sign some FA because I guarantee Gaither + Oher > Oher + some FA.
Worry about 2011 contract issues in 2011, that is, even if there is a CBA in place in time…
That’s basically the same answer I came to as well. If we lose Gaither, who plays RT, and do we have quality depth behind the starting tackles?
No more Franchise Tags
until a new CBA is signed by the players and owners. I do think one will be worked out and if so, the Franchise Tag would be agreat option but an expensive one and might not be cap-friendly.
As far as RT’s they are not too hard to find out there and come cheaply compared to LT’s, who are the 2nd highest paid position other than QB in the league average-wise.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 30, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
RT’s that can guard Pittsburg’s LB’s are hard come by. We finally got one, and everyone’s thinking you can just plug Joe Nobody in and he’ll stop Woodley off the edge. We’ve all seen that show a couple to many times.
by BmoreBlitz on Mar 30, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
DING! DING! DING!
“Rod, please tell us what our contestant has won for correctly answering the question…”
Here's the answer from NFLLabor.com
•Q. In addition to the right to designate a franchise (or transition) player each capped year, will clubs be able to designate additional players if 2010 is uncapped?
•A. Yes, one additional player can be tagged. In capped years, a club may designate a franchise player or a transition player. In the final league year (2010), a club may designate one additional transition player.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 30, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So it looks like
we will be able to designate a Franchise Tag on one guy and Transition Tags on TWO guys. Hmmm…that might change a lot of strategies if no CBA is reached, huh?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 30, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
OOPS
I just made my mock pick for you over at Canal Street Chronicles, and while both Wilson and Odrick were on the board, I chose Odrick. Oh, well. My write-up for it will be posted tomorrow morning…I’ll come over here and put a link to it so you can read it, and maybe you won’t think it was too bad of an idea
"I have all of the love in the world for Darren Sharper. I just don't have all the money in the world for Darren Sharper." Mickey Loomis
While I might prefer Wilson...
Odrick is no slouch and will immediately make an impact on our d-line and pass rush. Over the long haul, no one will complain about him as he will be a star, although so will Kyle Wilson and at least the Steelers didn’t get him.
How about a link to the Mock Draft over at CSC? Thanks.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
gotcha
Our moderator has been posting the individual picks made by CSC members each morning as separate main “stories” for almost a month now, so there’s not one “page” to go to to see all the picks. UPDATE: Go to the CSC Story Archives page for March 2010 and you will see each pick under the headline “2010 CSC Community Mock Draft.” They will be in chronological order, so you can work your way back from the Eagles’ pick that was put up this morning to see how it went down.
My write up for the Ravens is slated to go up Monday morning (I emailed it to our guy yesterday afternoon), so as soon as it appears and I see it before work tomorrow, I’ll put up a link here as a fanshot, for sure. Your help to me in making the pick was invaluable…
Thanks again, Bruce!
"I have all of the love in the world for Darren Sharper. I just don't have all the money in the world for Darren Sharper." Mickey Loomis
No problemo
and keep checking back with us as you are on our radar, coming here to Baltimore during the 2010 regular season. Of course come that game, all friendships are off!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I would expect no less and give no more - Ha!
When friends become enemies – - GAMEDAY! Last time we played you (2006), you spanked us good at the SuperDome behind the cool leadership of Steve McNair, may he rest in peace, and the powerful defense of Raven Legend, past and present.
I’ve enjoyed reading here, and it will be a pleasure to return.
"I have all of the love in the world for Darren Sharper. I just don't have all the money in the world for Darren Sharper." Mickey Loomis
They said Oher wouldn't be available either,
but there he was. I remember standing up in front of my TV once we traded up, like it was the National Anthem. Malcom Jenkins went later than he was suposed to go because of 40 times, even though he purportedly met the football skills of a shut-down corner. If Joe Haden drops, Wilson might drop, and we can trade up 5 or so picks to get him. That would mean we give up a later round pick, or drop even lower for a first round guy when there are several other holes to fill. This is where we fill holes—the draft. Ozzie will not give up the rest of the draft, not his style.
I guess this means Jermaine Gresham looks more probable. I like him a lot. Odrick would be great too. I even saw a couple mocks where Dez Bryant was still around, Mr. Maylor’s was one. There are Carlos Dunlop, who seems kind of lazy, and all these pass-rushing first rounder DE’s we could get. I really hope we find a way to grab Wilson though.
by PurpleNorangeNbeer on Mar 28, 2010 10:39 AM EDT reply actions
Dunlap has fallen like a rock and should be available
in the second round. Odrick is a much better fit and person than Carlos and would make a great Raven. Wilson would be abeast but my only concern is that between Wilson, Webb and Foxworth, there are three guys for two spots. Foxworth is probably not sitting due to a 4 year $28 million contract. Webb is certainly not sitting once he returns and Wilson is without a doubt a starter. So do we want that wonderful problem? Probably yes, but I guess it all depends on whom is also available when our pick comes up.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Also,
Wilson will be a rookie, and even if he plays well and learns the playbook, he may only serve a complementary role to begin. How often do rookies get to play anyway? Webb got in because F Washington, right? As a fan, I remember worrying a lot. Plus, we were slim at the position at the time, Carr is a career backup, more of a return guy. Webb was a third round pick, but I think he impressed as much as anyone could.
It would be nice to have Webb start for the next 3+ years, but we hardly pay him anything, which is great. Why not get Wilson? A second round guy like the DE from Cal would just fill our defense up. I don’t think we have been so complete in every position ever before. Depending on who is available, or how much the Ravens like each guy, we need a tight end of the future really bad.
by PurpleNorangeNbeer on Mar 28, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If Chris Gronkowski slips to the 7th round or goes undrafted
The Ravens should pick him up, and try to develop him until Heap retires.
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by Zachary Beard on Mar 28, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Such a deep draft at all of our positions in need. We could really end up going in about any direction with the first pick. If wilson is gone, I would rather not take any other corner with the 1st pick and would then prefer to go DL unless someone like a Dez Bryant were to slip.
Exactly
NFW Wilson will be there so Odrick is the best bet and biggest need that would be wonderfully filled by his selection.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, why?
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by Zachary Beard on Mar 28, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Bigger and stronger and
played in the SEC, but then again, Wilson has done everything he could do to be favorably compared to Haden.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Mar 28, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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