Stop Dreaming: Neither Boldin Nor Marshall Coming To Ravens
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2009 8:57 AM EDT
117 comments
This had been a topic of debate since the 2008 season ended with the Baltimore Ravens loss to eventual Super Bowl Champ Pittsburgh Steelers in the AFC Championship Game. It escalated after the Ravens passed over every wide receiver in April's NFL Draft. It's now reached a crescendo after the reported, yet not official, retirement of leading receiver Derrick Mason.
But it's just not going to happen.
Click on the "Jump" to read more.
Both Anquan Boldin and Brandon Marshall are legitimate #1 receivers and would obviously raise the quality of any teams' passing attack. However, both would demand new contracts and without receiving their just due, they would become disgruntled teammates, taking the attention off the game and into the Front Office. No team needs these types of headaches, as we all witnessed the "cancer" that is widely known to be Terrell Owens. As good as he has been in his career, there have been a lot of happier teammates in locker rooms around the NFL on teams that he has left.
Boldin and Marshall would command huge contracts with massive signing bonuses that would paralyze our team's ability to sign other free agents, much less the soon-to-be ones that are already on this team and too valuable to lose. Depending on future status of the league's Collective Bargaining Agreement, they may or may not be become free agents based on the Union's and owners ability to get a new one in place before the 2010 season. The Ravens still have their top two draft picks to sign to lucrative contracts and even with Derrick Mason's retirement, they would be around $10 million under the NFL Salary Cap. Would that be enough to sign both picks AND one or the other in the event of a trade? Perhaps, but it would certainly end any opportunity to sign anyone else or renegotiate any other player's contracts.
Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome has valued #1 draft picks for a reason. He has put a ton of faith in developing the best athletes in the draft that have become Ravens and grown to All-Pro status over the years. While a wide receiver the likes of Boldin or Marshall would be an instant upgrade regardless of Mason's status, don't expect any major signings this summer. Of course the possibility of bringing in one of the remaining free agent wide receivers is still on everyone's minds. However the thought of bringing in a 36 year old Marvin Harrison would be great if it was the 30 year old one, but the current one will spend more time injured on the sideline than between the white lines and how would that benefit this offense and specifically QB Joe Flacco? The purpose of bringing in a WR is not for depth, it is to replace Mason's production or possibly to add to it. Flacco needs to develop a chemistry with his new wide receiver if he gets one and a 36 year old guy is not going to be here long enough to build that bond. A younger guy would be the smarter move and while there is not much out there on the free agent market, there is one guy, a former first round pick that teams have stayed away from based on his off the field troubles. That name is former Jacksonville Jaguars first round pick, Matt Jones. I've previously stated here on The Beatdown that I'm not in his corner to be brought here, but have greatly warmed to the idea lately. He is young and has put up pretty decent stats in an offense similar to ours in that Jacksonville puts their offensive emphasis on the run game as well. Jones poses an intriguing matchup for the opponents defense and would only make players like Mark Clayton and Todd Heap more effective as secondaries would be scurrying to cover two large targets (Jones, Heap) that can run with many DB's, much less a Clayton as the team's possession receiver, filling Mason's former "role."
However, the thought of having a top notch defense AND a top notch offense just won't be happening in Baltimore anytime soon, much less in any NFL city. Based on the salary cap restrictions, it is a rarity to have both. So Baltimore, which do you want- a dominant defense like the one we have or a great offense like the Colts, Saints or Cardinals have had? Pick one because as I wrote in a May 30, 2009 story (click here to read), you can't have both!
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well..
teams with terrible defenses have gone to the superbowl (ex: Indianapolis, Arizona) but teams w/ just great defense have sometimes not even made the postseason.. Defenses may win championships, but offenses get you there..
by ravsagain on Jul 17, 2009 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Indy
Their defense in 2006 was not terrible. By late 2006, they finally got healthy after losing their starting DTs and Bob Sanders for much of the regular season. In the playoffs, they had the best defense of any team, including the Ravens.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on Jul 17, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you in part...
They definitely were not bad…but they were not the best defense of any team. Besides the first round of the playoffs (Chiefs I think it was), they were still giving up considerable amounts of offense 250yds+. And then in the AFCCG and the SB you just simply outscored the opponents and the defense did enough to hold off the other team.
by Johnny_S on Jul 17, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
Best defesne = Colts? Doubtful considering you got to play against our offense while we had to play yours (Colts). Holding Peyton and company to 15 points was a lot more impressive than you holding the Ravens to six points. However, a win is a win and until we beatyou this year, you can brag about it.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the year to go after Marshall
I just do not get all this stuff about slary cap issues and do you want a great D or O. First of all, New England had both a few years ago. Secondly, we do not have a big rookie contract coming up for renewal next year because we traded away the first round pick that would be coming up for Boller, so the next one will be Nagta in 2 years. Marshall is worth the first round pick and we should bump his salary for this year from 2 mil to 5 or 6 and then based on his performance(and whether he shows some maturity by staying out of trouble) we give him a long term at the end of the year(or franchise him). With no 1st round pick and no big upcoming contracts, this should be a workable solution and give us the stud #1 we need.
by GtisMe on Jul 17, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gaither is up after this season
So is Clayton and Ngata the next year. Flacco and Grubbs soon after. We need to resign those guys.
Also, Marshall wants 8-9 million a season. He would not sign for 5 or 6 per year with incentives.
I know it sounds reasonable to trade for him but in reality it can not happen without us letting Gaither or Ngata walk. He is a great player, but between his maturity issues, the large contract he would demand, and the strain he would put on us resigning our core players, I have to a agree with Bruce. Its not happening.
by DT711 on Jul 17, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be great to happen
But we are not the Cowboys and can buy anyone we want. I would rather keep the players on the offensive and defensive lines to protect Flacco and keep the pass rush then have to lose 1 or 2 of those guys just to pay Marshall some insane contract.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can fit Nagta and Marshall
Does not matter what Marshall wants, he’s under contract this year at 2.2 million. So we bump him to 5 or 6 for this year to split the diff and keep him happy(T.O. Money). We(as if I work for the front office)….They… are trying to rewrite Gaither’s contract now and Ngata…as I said is 2 years from now so the contract for him will fit nicely with the one big contract per year deal that is the norm.
By your logic we cant sign our first round pick if we keep the pick because of Nagta and Gaither, which is crap. We could make this work if we wanted to, Marshall would get the contract the #1 pick would have received next year. I still think we’ll end up with him IMO. The guy is 25, he’s not a lost cause, its possible he could mature here in B’more. Matt Jones is just as much of a risk and he’s cheaper true, but he also is not half the receiver. I really think this guy can be the final piece. And if he’s not, we drop him after 1 year and we lose our # 1 draft pick….which sux, but I think its a risk we should take while we have the opp. Lewis and Reed are getting old, lets hit this now.
by GtisMe on Jul 17, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but...
…the difference between what we’d have to pay Marshall vesus a late first round pick is huge. Marshall would want $8-9/year PLUS a double digit signing bonus, both WAY more than a late first rounder would get. Just not affordable from a business sense. Unfirtunately, most people look at this the same way as Fantasy Football and it is NOT!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
First of all, its not gonna be 8-9 million a year plus a big signing bonus. It’ll be that with signing bonus and it’ll be heavily front-loaded so that the last 4 years will be at 5 mil per year against the cap just like Suggs. Lets use Flaccos 17.8k deal for 5 years, thats with the reachable incentives he has(and would probably be slotted at a higher rate 2 years later), thats 3 million a year, Mason’s contract averaged 4 mil over 5 years, that 7 mil per season. That means about 2 million extra per season and the cap has risen by an average of 10-12 million each year since 2005(not even going to get into uncapped possibilities). Appreciate the smug as hell “this is NOT fantasy football” comment.
by GtisMe on Jul 17, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Bruce, fantasy football is serious business.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 17, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally disagree
about the Fantasy Football comment. Jes’ kiddin’ yall.
No seriously, Marshall would get that type of cash on the openmarket, ESPECIALLY in an uncapped year! Even though he is still not eligible for free agency, you don’t want to bring in a guy and piss him off and now we’ve got the disgruntled employee (sounding like TO?). Suggs’ contract was a “steal” for us, when you see what others will get in free agency (D. Ware) and Suggs would have definitely gotten more if he waited for FA.
So sorry if I ffended you with the “fantasy football” comment, but it sort of stands as you just can’t say “sign players” and then just expect it to fit in on the business side because you think they will sign for a certain amount. Although ’m doing it as well, I guess, by disagreeing w/ you.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 18, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a double negative in the title? I’m no English scholar but that seems to suggest that both Boldin and Marshall ARE coming to Baltimore. Of course, the point is still understood.
Sorry, couldn’t help myself ;-)
They say the empty can rattles the most...
by Massacre on Jul 17, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad somebody else brought this up. It insinuates that Marshall (but not Boldin) is coming to Baltimore. In general, you want a “neither” preceding a “nor.”
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 17, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked at it and wondered
Watch, now I’ll fix it? Feel better, professors?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indubitably.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 17, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who? MATT JONES! who? MATT JONES?
The guy made his mistakes, but he’s 25, a physical specimen, and he showed flashes of SERIOUS explosiveness last year prior to serving his suspension. This article talks about how he’s ready to put this behind him. I understand that everyone says that, but honestly, for the LOW price he will likely command, how much of a risk is it really? he’s a southerner who believes in Jesus and wants a second chance. I think if he approaches his time at a new team with that mentality, he can still be a major threat at receiver.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Character, character, character.
We have to remember, the guy did cocaine and messed up his career big time, probably because of it.
Like I have stated earlier, the Ravens will not pick up a guy who got lunch detention in middle school. Gotta be little angels.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jamal Lewis took a conviction for SELLING cocaine,
and they kept him. So either I’m missing something or this isn’t a huge deal. If they don’t get him, its because they’re worried that he’s Lazy. For the amount of money he’d demand, I have a hard time believing that the cocaine is really so abohorrent.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and having a cocaine habit for a few months of your life
isn’t something you can’t ever recover from. He performed pretty well this year and I’d be inclined to think he would do the same next year if signed short-term. The guy deserves a second chance.
look, people do coke. It happens. So many of your favorite players from the 80s were banging rails through their noses 3 or 4 nights a week. It has been said that the Terry Bradshaw steelers were a bunch of cokeheads. It’s certainly NOT good for you but it isn’t always the end of life for some people.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
But it seems that Ozzie is all about this Character stuff. That is all that matters. He sees a troubled past and moves along to the next player. All we heard with the Brandon Marshall stuff was that he does not fit our system because of his so called character issues. Those issues did not seem to hinder his 200+ receptions in 2 years or hurt his team to the point where he was a reason they were losing games.
I just find it a little hypocritical if we sign Jones who had a very serious problem and it brought his game down, where as it seemed like a reason we did not go after Marshall was because of his character, which did not hinder his game what so ever.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very serious problem and it brought his game down?
how can you assume that was the case? he admitted trying coke for the first time 3 months prior to his arrest. To me that sounds like a realistic coke-habit timetable (from my own personal experience). To assume that his coke brought his level of play down is like assuming every NFL player who ever tested positive for pot had his game brought down. These guys can have habits that don’t carry over to sundays.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea the coaches and front office have always looked for classy guys, but they have made plenty of exceptions. I’m pretty sure both Rod Woodson and Samari Rolle had domestic violence issues before they came to the Ravens. Bam Morris certainly was no angel, nor was Errict Rhett. Orlando Brown shoved a ref in retaliation to being struck in the eye by the ball of a penalty flag. Elvis Grbac had Vaginitis.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
by Massacre on Jul 17, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LoL!!!
Elvis Grbac had Vaginitis
My lunch almost came up through my nose on that one…
by vlad755 on Jul 17, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crack me up!
You slay me Massacre. That was your best contribution to this site!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
go figure
The one time I’m messin around is the one time I get respect.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
by Massacre on Jul 17, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be worse. Mr MaLoR’s been here forever and still doesn’t get any respect.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 17, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
………
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said
in an earlier topic: he is a mediocore receiver, who is young, and starting to looked real good last season. I think if he makes one more trouble, he also knows that would mean the end for him as an athlete. If I would be a GM ith need for a WR, I try him out.
Life without knowledge is death in disguise
by Zoltan from Budapest on Jul 18, 2009 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get the facts right
Jamal never sold anything all he did was talk about it in a cellphone, trying to arrange a sale for a friend with someone else. There never was a sale from the conversation, just talk about the amount and price. He was arrested and convicted of talking about a drug deal on a cell phone which is against Federal law, not selling drugs or he would have been in jail longer and had a longer suspension.
by Asmodeus1971 on Jul 18, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude, you know what i mean. stop being a douche.
he was charged with conspiring to possess with the intent to distribute 5 kilograms of coke. it was “intent” because a witness testified in federal court that lewis intended to take part of the proceeds from the sale. I said he took a conviction for selling cocaine. Perhaps I should have said he took a conviction for intent to distribute but we really don’t need to re-hash the details of this when it happened like 5 years ago.
The point i was trying to make is that Jamal’s case was far more severe than Matt Jones’, but they still kept Jamal.
by jackmca on Jul 18, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool it with the personal attacks
He stated his opinion. Besides Jamal’s case was nowhere near as bad as he did that long before he was in the NFL while JOnes did his deed as an NFL player. One guy was supposed to be a pro and one was a stupid kid. No comparison, but then again, don’t call me a bad name just because of my side of the issue.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 18, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Asmodeus1971 actually wasn’t stating an opinion. He was splitting hairs about whether Jamal Lewis sold cocaine or just arranged to have cocaine sold. In no way, shape, or form did he respond to jackmca’s argument in a meaningful way. There is definitely an argument to be made for Asmodeus1971 “being a douche.”
Even if jackmca did overreact (as I said above, the jury is still out on that one), it’s hard to blame him. He’s been single-handedly answering the same accusations and arguments from the same people over and over all week, and all he gets in response is, “Well, Jones did drugs and is a bad person.” If I were jackmca, I’d feel like I was taking crazy pills.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 18, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, don't disparage "crazy pills!"
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 18, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, i apologize
I kindof just dropped the “douche” lightly and I didn’t mean to start some vicious argument. But I did feel as though he was splitting hairs when he really knew what i meant. So, since I’m not taking any crazy pills and I don’t want to start some childish back-and-forth, we can all drop this.
by jackmca on Jul 19, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hehe no sweat
when it comes to single-handedly holding up an argument against like 50 ppl. hehe jk.
honestly though, as much as i’d like to see us give Matt Jones a try, I have come to seriously doubt that possibility. I think Malor is right when he says that if they didn’t take Marshall for “character” reasons, then they won’t make themselves look stupid by taking another guy with his own “character” issues.
by jackmca on Jul 19, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Childish back-and-forth?
On The Beatdown! Come on! Never happens here!
Character issues included, it’s a much cheaper risk to take a chance on a “character” that would cost us $1 million a year vs. one who could cost us draft picks and $8 million/year!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 19, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chances are
that Matt Jones is going to end up somewhere after training camp begins. Where might that be? I’m not sure if i can picture Ozzie on the phone with this guy right now, but as with Boldin and Marshall, we are one of the possibilities. thank you for the article. I don’t know how many times i need to hear some idiot say, “God is watching me” or “my getting in trouble was a blessing” and “everything happens for a reason.” Maybe if you weren’t an idiot, and I you actually looked at a Bible (if that what you believe in), you would follow what it says in there and you wouldn’t get in trouble AT ALL. But in all seriousness, I would accept this a-hole onto our team.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 17, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dude, i’m not selling Matt Jones as a model citizen. I’m selling him as a WR who can contribute and who hasn’t blown all of his potential JUST yet.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last I heard, Matt Jones had some drug problems. Unless I’ve missed something else, what makes him an “a-hole?” Everything else I’ve heard about him makes him sound like a pretty cool dude.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 17, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what i'm saying
he got caught with cocaine once. OH Lord in Heaven! He’s a heathen! Don’t let him anywhere near the choir boys at Owings Mills, for he shall corrupt their souls!
Seriously, he’s a young guy who got a little bit of a rep for being a little lazy in Jax. I’m not minimizing the importance of how mad the Jags organization was with him, but the guy is a physical FREAK in his mid-20s and everyone is staying away from him like he’s radioactive. He had 760 receiving yards in 12 games, which is a pace to catch for 1000 yards had he played in all 16. He’s 6-foot-6, 240, and runs a sub 4.4, and he’s apparently been training like a psycho in private so he’s sure to show up to training camp ready to run.
I’m just saying we should sign him on the cheap, for a short-term “let’s see what you can do for us” type of contract. If he gets locked up or unerachieves over the next two seasons, show him the door. But he would be a solid addition, IMO.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all all about
one of those “let’s see what you can do for us” contracts. There is no way you can say that he has just a couple problems. You don’t know him. I hear things all the time about NFL players that surprise me. He really could be a problem, and he’s in a point in his career where he has that reputation. He needs a “let’s see what you can do for us” contract, and we should give it to him. But there is no way I want them to sign a potential problem (McGahee) for a long-term “oh shit what have we gotten ourselves into” contract.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 19, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know its a free country and all...
…but your SB name is F’in disgusting. w/e tho.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones is going to end up somewhere after training camp begins. Where might that be?
Prison?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has a clean slate
idk what the bfd is.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wtf omfg lol rofl jk nmu
Sorry, had to add those to your idk and bfd.
I am just giving the Ravens and you guys a hard time after all we talked about for months on here was about how guys don’t fit in our system because of the mistakes they made while on different teams. All I heard was that Marshall does not fit our system because of legal problems and so on. So why does Jones fit our system when he has had serious legal problems?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jones had one serious legal problem
whereas Marshall had like 14. There’s a HUGE difference there if you ask me. We’re talking about a guy who wants a second chance and deserves it, and a guy who has had 14 police-related incidents! Where do you not see the difference?
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont see the difference on Sunday
If Marshall can perform like he does with all these incidents and Jones can’t live up to the draft pick he once was because of “trying” cocaine, there is my difference.
Listen, I dont care what we do at this point. I am desperate enough to bring in just about anyone. Jones is a solid athlete and a big body that we could use in the passing game.
Could you imagine if we got Harrison and Jones? I would be pretty happy with that one.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's what I take issue with,
you’re using the word “because,” when in reality your assumption of causation is completely unfounded. The guy underachieved, not necessarily due to cocaine. Get over it.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones
“tried” cocaine like A-Rod “tried” steroids once with his cousin. He’s lying so his career doesn’t get ruined
by Ravens Boner on Jul 19, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m super glad we have the judge, jury and executioner here at the Beatdown. I was so tired of that give-him-a-second-chance bull shit everybody here’s been throwing around. It’s a good thing somebody finally had the balls to put his foot in his mouth and make ridiculous assumptions about someone when:
You don’t know him.
(disclosure: quoted text is from Ravens Boner’s post above)
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 20, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he could be a saint or a sinner
we don’t know. But if I were GM, i’d say the guy is at least worth a preliminary conversation. I’d at least fly him out here, show him around, and see how he reacts. See how he shakes hands. Get a gut feel for him.
Actually, Malor and Boner-man, he didn’t say he just “tried” it, I would have smelled the BS if he had said that. He said he started using about 3 months prior to his arrest. That seems realistic to me but I obviously don’t have any way of knowing for sure.
Maybe if I’d met him I’d think what Malor thinks, which is that his coke problem was a lot more serious than he let on and that he isn’t ready to work at the pro level. But he’s at least worth a conversation and a tour, and if you feel like you can reach a mutual understanding with the guy and you can give him a low-risk but high-incentive contract, he could certainly prove useful to us.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am all for giving him another shot.
I can’t shy away from good talent, but I would like this situation looked at very heavily. The Ravens have held that image that we use “high character” guys. Doing cocaine takes away from that in our eyes and I want to make sure it is over with. He made a terrible mistake and I want Ozzie to make sure it never happens again.
If he can assure us that that part of his life is done with, then suit up Matt and get us some touchdowns.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 20, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we seem to have reached a consensus.
sounds like everybody is OK with Matt Jones on the conditions of 1) him demonstrating a major life change in terms of work habits as well as drug habits, and 2) a low-risk contract that would allow us to cut and run if he backslides into his old self-destructive ways.
I think we could be good for him because we run one of the more structured training camps in the NFL and we don’t give our players a lot of free time to goof around. If you ask anybody with any experience in substance abuse—and I know of many friends of mine as well as some of my own issues—it is free time that can kill you. Ex-drug addicts who stay clean are able to do it because they stay busy and focused on other things. if you go back to the old buddies and the old hangout spots and do the old stuff, you’re gonna do the old drugs again.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I honestly feel that when players come to the Ravens, they change their lives around. It is because of the family that is created with everyone here. Ray leads the group and everyone follows. They do not want to screw up on this team because you will easily lose your spot if the coaches think someone is better suited.
Every time I bring something up about acquiring a guy with character issues that I like, I always say that everything will be Ok because of who we have in the locker room and the mentality this team has. Most people say I am wrong to say that Ray will keep everything in line (especially people on here) but it is true.
If Matt wants to come here and give it all hes got, focus on football and not putting that shit up his nose, then lets ball.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 20, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still you were probably right the first time that they won't take him
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta remember bro
All about character. Does not matter if you are Randy Moss and Jerry Rice rolled up in one guy. If you did not put the milk away back in the fridge when you were 7 years old and your mom screamed at you, Ozzie will find out and not sign you.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 20, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i somehow doubt he wouldn't make an exception
for Jerry Rice and Randy Moss rolled up into one.
You can chill with the hyperbole regarding childhood transgressions that prevent people from becoming Ravens. I really don’t think its serious like that, they’re just trying to keep a clean image.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Marshall's issues affect his play
when they stop him from playing. He’ll be suspended this year, Jones won’t. In that sense, Jones’ off-the-field issues affect him less (for us) since he’s served his suspension and would, in theory, be able to play all 16 in 2009.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, all for it
I just want to make sure that we are not getting mixed signals from the Front Office in such a desperate situation. If Ozzie wants to get Jones, lets do it. He can only help us and I am glad he has gotten over his troubles and wants to get back to becoming a premier football player.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now we're talking.
even if he ends up being a slot or a 4th receiver, I’d take just about anybody who can catch, is 6-foot-6, weighs 240 pounds, and can run with the gazelles.
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Compare
Jones vs. Figurs. Who would you want lining up at the #4 spot? This is a no brainer…
by vlad755 on Jul 17, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactamente, señor. Tienes razón.
Matt Jones es muy atlético y es también capaz de mejorar aún más. Yamon Figurs es débil a de mierda. Piense, ¿qué jugador desea ver todos los domingos?
by jackmca on Jul 17, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, what he said…..
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 17, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor Not..lol. Raven2000 should help you edit Rexx.
by raven on Jul 17, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
that’s low. Besides I fixed it and didn’t wait for someone else to do so for me!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 17, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wr search
b-more should pick up marv,they seriously need a threatening reciever they screwed the pooch by not getting moss when he was available or t.o.i know t.o. has his probs but him or moss would have made the offense as scary as the defense.
by kaptkert on Jul 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Those guys weren't coming here anyhow
No way they would have came here with Boller as our QB, as they want the ball – a lot!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 19, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reggie Williams anyone?
He is a UFA right now and I think could be a help to this team. Here are the stats.
http://www.nfl.com/players/reggiewilliams/profile?id=WIL481044
Forrmer first round draft pick in 2004 by the Jaguars and has some legit size. 6’4" 212 and really has not done THAT bad over 5 years. Very comparable stats to what Mark Clayton is doing for us at the moment and we praise him.
I think it would be a great pick-up to give this guy another shot one a team with an actual QB and not Gerrard or Leftwich. Don’t sleep on him.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 19, 2009 1:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't classify that as a "great" pickup.
and would now be willing to grab M. Jones over him as his stats were better and he poses a more intriguing and challenging matchup for defenses. But of course the issue is “character” a word I’m beginning to hate!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 19, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd take Jones over him too
I saw Williams pussy-out on a few balls against us in week 17, so how’s he gonna run routes over the middle against pitt twice a year? he won’t. Guys like that get scared and cause interceptions, a la Clarence Moore.
While I’m not down on Clayton, I don’t think I’d be in a hurry to go get a guy with a 5-year track record similar to his. It’s just a lot of uncertainty. With Jones, you get a guy in his 4th year, in his mid 20s, who still has a chance to turn his life and his career around. With Williams, you have a guy who is probably 28 (i’m not sure so feel free to correct me), has even more mediocrity under his belt, and is non-physical to boot. I just don’t see the benefits of signing him, ESPECIALLY after seeing how he performed against us in week 17. He’s got a “BUM” stamped on his forehead in that little book in my mind.
by jackmca on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s 26 years old.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 19, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, he's young but he's still a bumzo in my book.
Doesn’t seem to go after balls in the air with any urgency. That irks me. Stay away.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you know
they could be a trade for Marshall and also it determines if derrick mason has “reitred”. then they will make a move for another Wo to help out Flacco and most likely be Marshall because of his age
by 2000 ravens on Jul 19, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It most likely will not be Marshall because he has a rap sheet longer than his YAC.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jul 19, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please,
Marshall will never be a Raven. How can the Broncos trade the only hope on their team. If they don’t have the worst record this season WITH him, I will be shocked. Why are the Jags going to release all these guys? We should acquire Reggie Williams or Matt Jones, pronto. And I think D.J. Hackett would be a nice addition too, unless there is something i don’t know about him. He had to play in Seattle behind a lot of talented receivers, and i feel he never got a shot, and wow, he played for the Panthers? He must have been injured the whole season.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 19, 2009 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the broncos are dumb but not that dumb.
DJ Hackett’s rep is that he’s a bum. He didn’t play in seattle because he’s a bum. On an NFL team with decent receivers (Carolina only has 1 decent receiver—Smith), Hackett struggles to find playing time. Ergo, skip hackett.
Williams could be 26, but after 5 years if he still doesn’t have the balls to go up for a tough catch against us in week 17, I DON’T WANT HIM. We don’t need another clarence moore.
Jones is obviously not a no-brainer but he would be a calculated risk and if we give him an incentive-laced contract with few guaranteed dollars, we could possibly be glad we did it. At best, we turn his career around and mold him into a true raven. At worst, we coerce a decent to mediocre season out of him and cut him loose after one year. Again, I’ve never met him personally, so maybe he’s such an asshole in person that I’d change my mind, but unless there’s some glaring issue like that, I’d totally take him.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My friend, you make a convincing arguement
I was never anti Jones like some people, but he is definitely worth taking a look at. No one else who is available offers the upside he does due to his size, speed, athleticism and low cost it would take to sign him.
I’m hopeful that Oz is smart enough to at least consider the possibility.
by DT711 on Jul 20, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah,
But I think he’s also considered the possibility that signing him would make him look silly since he skipped Marshall for what Harbaugh insinuated were “character” issues.
In any event, you know where I stand, we just don’t know where Ozzie stands. I have a hunch he’s not drooling over Jones though.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh, actually, maybe i could warm up to hackett. his scouting report is decent.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody kill me, but
isn’t D. Williams considered a “bum” too? I have an insider trainer source, and they’re all a bunch of babies. D.J. Hackett should get the workout opportunity any player deserves, and, if it works out, great. For some reason we don’t want to work out Jones, or we don’t want towork out Jones yet. Which is it?
by Ravens Boner on Jul 22, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the time to work out players is now,
so Jones clearly isn’t on the agenda. I think the main concern is work ethic—the Ravens don’t need a guy who is going to butt heads with Harbaugh the ways Jones butted heads with Del Rio.
Hackett could end up being the starter this year, which would be good but not great.
Please, tell me more about your insider training source. Who is a baby and why? I’m curious.
by jackmca on Jul 22, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I’m friendly with this girl who works in the marketing dept and she speaks with the trainers all the time. The word about D. Williams isn’t good. I will work on some more info.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 22, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and so the mission begins...
…your mission, should you choose to accept it, Boner, is to break into the facility at Owings Mills undetected and obtain Ozzie newsome’s top secret files on D-Will.
by jackmca on Jul 22, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need,
she is giving me a free tour. We need some cameras and microphones to plant. Any connections? I live in Ocean City, so I may be a little bit.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 22, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
call my boy at national geographic
he has those GPS tags they put on wild animals. We can put one on D-Williams with a microphone attached to it so we can tell how much time he spends in the training room and what percentage of his speech is pure complaining.
by jackmca on Jul 22, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pick up Jones
EVEN if Mason plays this season, the Ravens should STILL pick up Jones – if the price is right of course.
Dump Figurs, pick up Jones. He’d push Clayton to max out his potential. Might even push Clayton to the slot, where he could possibly be more effective.
They say the empty can rattles the most...
by Massacre on Jul 20, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You can't be serious about dropping Figurs, right?
He is a potential spec teams ace. Last year, he was a bit timid, but his feet are lightning, and he needs to compete w/ Carr on punt/kick returns. One of them may get injured, and neither costs us very much.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 21, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not anymore
All he did last year was run right at the opponents and got his clock cleaned more than once. With Chris Carr and Lardarius Webb, much less Nakamura, Zbi and even Ed Reed, Figurs is just not worth the roster spot anymore.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jul 22, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
you think we should just release him? If we bring in Hackett or Bennett, i can dig that. I kind of forgot about Zbi. And we actually use Ed Reed a lot on returns. Whatever, take a hike Yamon.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 22, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he's donezo. really doesn't bring much to the table
what good are lightning feet if he doesn’t know where to put them?
by jackmca on Jul 22, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally
If The Flash (superhero) was a baby, he wouldn’t fight crime; he’d just sit there and crap his pants.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 22, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PFT has a story...
saying DJ Hackett and three other unnamed receivers will be in Owings Mills for tryouts this friday. I’m not a huge Hackett guy, but maybe I just need to see more tape.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/20/ravens-to-try-out-four-receivers-1/
BRUCE, get a SCOOP on this!!!!
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hackett
He is big, 6’2" 208lbs, and was thought of highly in Seattle after his solid 2006 season as the teams third or fourth WR. Of course, he did not step up as expected in 2007 due to injuries, and was not resigned by the Seahawks. He was underwhelming again last season in Carolina, but he is still fairly young, as he just turned 28. I think he is most definitely worth a look and has the potential to be a solid #2 or #3 guy, but also has the potential to be a worthless. A lot depends on if he can stay healthy and motivated. He runs a 4.53 forty, but is quite shifty and has a nasty 41" vertical which would be helpful in rising up over DB’s to snag jump balls.
Lets see what hes got.
by DT711 on Jul 20, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, ok, I can dig it. I'm not stoked, but I'm cool with it.
The scouts say he’s great at extending his arms and making the catch out in front of his body. His burst is described as “decent” although he’s learning his route-running (we’ll see). His catch in traffic skills and hand-eye coordination are raved about. What people drag on him for is his durability questions. Can this guy go 16 games? I don’t know but I suppose he’d work out as far as improving depth goes.
by jackmca on Jul 20, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much
will he really cost of his he’s an injury risk. That means he’s only in for one year, and I think he can be a solid 2-3 receiver in case some other guys get hurt. He can at least compete and put a fire under their a**. That is unless he is just lazy like Jerry Porter, who I was excited about acquiring ealy on. A shame.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 21, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his rep is that he's a hard worker
which is really the only type of receiver the Ravens want right now.
I’m guessing them not vetting Jones has more to do with his work ethic concerns than his drug abuse.
by jackmca on Jul 22, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
his agent says he’s really good.
by Ravens Boner on Jul 22, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TT
I just noticed on nfl.com that Travis Taylor is an unrestricted free agent…anyone tempted? Sure, he’s played in a total of two games in the past two seasons, but the way I see it, he’s due for a good performance!
They say the empty can rattles the most...
by Massacre on Jul 20, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if we get Hackett how will he do ,he has no touchdowns from what his stats and also there four other players. OK then they could try to get Marvin Harrison but for how much and also can he still play even with a knee the last two season and wants more money. then there is Toomer which have better stats and could help if that is the case try to sign Oher and Kruger and then look at a wide out with 8 million under the cap (5 if mason comes back ) maybe look at Clayton and maybe Toomer and Hackett as the Wide recivers and adds depth.
stop talking about Matt Jones listen he has a major legal problem with Possession of Crack cocaine also will he suspended for the first four games for breaking personal conduct. Travis Taylor is A NO! there are a few Wide outs out there and can be bigger benefits
i may have a slight Disgraphia so it may be hard to deal with punctuation
by 2000 ravens on Jul 20, 2009 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
first of all, Matt Jones got caught with coke, not crack. There’s a huge difference in terms of the drug’s effects as well as its legal status. If he had been caught with crack i’d say f*ck him, he’s a junkie.
Secondly, his legal problem is completely resolved at this point and he faces no further suspension. Having said that, the Ravens still do not seem to be interested in him. So, after a spirited debate, we can stick a fork in this one.
Harrison and Toomer are both out, that’s not happening. Neither will “try out” so to speak, and the ravens want to see them try out or they won’t take them.
hackett had his good days before, but he has injury concerns. He’d probably be a #3 WR if we got him. He might be a #2 behind Clayton. I doubt he’d leapfrog to #1, as that would probably be bad for team chemistry if a newcomer just catapulted to the top of the depth chart like that.
We will probably sign Hackett or Bennett at some point before training camp. Actually, I’d be happy to take both of them.
by jackmca on Jul 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Jones is on crack now?
Well, he would fit right in with Baltimore City, that’s for sure. Matt is not that bad of a guy. Actually Jackmca, I was just busting your balls with all that talk earlier. I think he is a great player. Was just tired of hearing these character issue bullshit that Ozzie and John talk about.
Lol, 2000 Ravens, I just love every comment you write. Jones is on crack!
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jul 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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