The Most Exciting Player In The NFL
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 7, 2009 12:18 AM EDT
151 comments
In a recent "players roundtable" on the NFL Network, Jamie Dukes, Deion Sanders, Marshall Faulk and Warren Sapp discussed the most exciting player in the NFL. I was surprised to see two Baltimore Ravens make the list. The Ravens had an excellent showing versus the Cowboys that aired on the NFL Network. Therefore, it may natural for them to pick a few Ravens. However, it is saying something that they picked Ed Reed and Ray Lewis over guys like Larry Fitzgerald and Adrian Peterson. During the roundtable session, Jamie Dukes picked Ray Lewis, Deion Sanders picked Ed Reed, Marshall Faulk picked Peyton Manning and Warren Sapp picked Chris Johnson.
Could the Ravens finally be getting some recognition? Obviously, this is just the opinion of four former players. If a national poll were to be taken, I do not think that either Reed or Lewis would make the top ten. Even so, I had a very distinct sense of pride knowing that our current defense is so exciting to so many people. Our defense is very special. I'm sure that it will be remembered for years to come, but for right now, I'm going to enjoy watching them dismantle opposing offenses.
Anyway, I thought that this would be an excellent time to debate the most exciting player in the NFL. My vote is for Ed Reed. If voting had included the playoffs, he would have been the defensive player of the year. With our revamped secondary, he should be a terror next year as well. Who do you think is the NFL's most exciting player?
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
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Shaun Rodger
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 7, 2009 1:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen to Reed
Someone on this board has a signature along the lines of , “water covers two thirds of the Earth. Ed Reed cover the rest…” or something like that. I thinks that great every time I see that…
by vlad755 on Jun 8, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I go where I’m needed.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 8, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad part is
That there is someone over at the Steelers Blog who uses the same signature, but put Troy Palamalu in it. Sad fans can’t think of their own sayings.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. I’ll go ahead and be flattered on Ed Reed’s behalf.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 8, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McAllister
Chris McAllister, when he is covering Marvin Harrison. Big play possibilities!!!
by Ngata 92 on Jun 7, 2009 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fitzgerald
My real pick is Larry Fitzgerald. Without a doubt!
by Ngata 92 on Jun 7, 2009 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post!
Thanks for the help, Bal_Hawk.
I do think Reed does indeed belong on the list and while Ray stirs up emotion in Baltimore that no one esewhere can truly understand, even I say he’s not that exciting a player in terms of the plays he makes, other than the solid hits. Reed makes highlight films regularly. However, so does AP and Fitz, who both belong up there. Remember that is the same Jamie Dukes who said Rayshould play for the Cowboys or Jets rather than our Ravens, so screw his thought process. Deion goes for defense and his buddy Ed. Too bad Vick isn’t in the league or he might be the clear winner in this list!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 7, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Most Exciting Player in the NFL
Troy Polamalu, no question. Literally makes plays ALL over the field.
Brett Skye
by Steeler Nation in Myrtle Beach on Jun 7, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you miss James Harrison's 100yd+ TD in the Super Bowl?
He still would have won Defensive MVP last year had voting included the playoffs. He was the best defensive player in the NFL last year. Hands down. He beat out Reed 22 votes to 8. That’s not close.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great play by Harrison, no doubt.
But Ed Reed made them a lot more routinely that James did. Sacks and fumbles are good but nothing changes the game quicker than interceptions, much less ones returned for a TD, which Reed did much more than Harrison. I’d never trade Reed for Harrison, but trust me, a lot of Steelers fans would make that trade in a second!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 8, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it.
Most Steelers love smash mouth, hard hitting football. Reed cannot hit that hard.
And you know what changes a game just as quick as a pick? Forced Fumbles. Guess who led the league in forced fumbles. Harrison.
Yeah its nice that Reed can get picks. However, reed can only have a big impact on throwing downs. Harrison made huge plays on runs and throws.
You honestly cannot argue that he was the defensive player of the year. If you do, you’re just simply wrong. He wasn’t even the runner up.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reed had a very serious neck injury for the majority of last season. The coaching staff did their best to minimize his involvement in tackling. When I see Harrison give a Hall of Fame performance with a career-threatening injury, then I might consider him to be on the same level as Reed.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 8, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I need to pull up the video of when Reed and Harrison did collide?
Harrison hits harder than Reed injury or no injury. You cannot argue against that.
Thats not even the issue anyhow, Harrison was the defensive player of the year last year, hands down. His only close competition was Ware.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actuall the issue was...
who was more exciting… We know who won DPOY, Johnny. What we’re arguing about is who is more exciting.
And what point is it to say that Harrison, a Linebacker, hits harder than Reed, a Free Safety? That’s like saying Joe Flacco has a better arm than Hines Ward. I would be right to say so, but it wouldn’t be much of a point.
by jackmca on Jun 8, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Of course a 270 pound monster is going to hit harder then Reed who sits at 200 pounds.
This guy is delirious because he loves the Baltimore Orioles, but Bufu’s the Pittsburgh Steelers.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how am I delirious?
I started watching sports and picked my teams in 1993. Was there a Baltimore Ravens? No. So excuse me if I didn’t bandwagon off to the Ravens once they came into the league.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a little ironic hearing a Steelers fan talk about another team’s bandwagon.
Just a little.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 8, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
word up
And I bet Harrison can’t hit harder then Ray Lewis. Just ask ya boy Rashard
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful, Benji5203. If you don’t pretend like that never happened, you’re a low class fan.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 9, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
my bad. Don’t want the steelers fans to be upset with me.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 9, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does cheering about injuring players not make you classless?
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't the object of football to decimate your opponent?
You can try to be politically correct if you want, and by no means would I ever want a player to be injured to the point of his career or livelihood being threatened, but isn’t the object of football to hit hard, and take away the other teams will to win? Ray’s hit on Rashard was a great football play, and knocked out your #2RB in the process, increasing our chances of winning at the time. That was a good thing for Ravens fans. Remember also that the Steeler and Ravens are the top rivalry in the NFL, and there is a mutual hatred on both sides. Don’t for one second think that Steeler fans would not revel in the thought of Ray Lewis being inured on a blind sided block by Hines Ward.
If you can’t deal with it then don’t visit a Ravens blog. Maybe the tennis or golf blogs would be a better fit for you?
by DT711 on Jun 10, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never
Ever would I ever cheer or be happy about a player on any team in the NFL being injured. I think it is low and classless. I want to beat my opponent at their full strength, not some secondary players.
The instant Leron McLain went down after the jarring hit by Clark last year my heart dropped. I felt for him and his family. I did not cheer, I did not revel, and I was not considering whether it increased our chances of winning.
It is the object of football to hit hard, but not to injure. Hence the Hines Ward Rule, the Brady Rule, etc.
And I am not in the wrong about this. Do you ever hear sportscasters talk about how injuring opposing players is good? No, because it is not the objective of football.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
I actually agree with this comment. I’m not taking sides in the argument. I just agree with what you said about injuries to players.
It is the object of football to hit hard, but not to injure. Hence the Hines Ward Rule, the Brady Rule, etc.
I love smash-mouth football, but I hate to see players getting injured.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m sorry, but Football is a blood Triste sport. I love it when player knocks the hell out of another guy. And when the player gets hurt and has to come out for a few plays makes it even better. Now, i’m not saying i want the guy to be injuried for the rest of the season thought. And that bull-shit Hines Wardrule and Brady rule is really making the game soft. You can’t even touch the QB anymore. idk…..
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 10, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They need to draw the line somewhere. Players are getting bigger and faster, and coordinators are finding more and more ways to exploit weaknesses on both sides of the ball. If the NFL did not make these rules, players would be getting killed left and right before long.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would do anything have Ben injured for all of next year.
Yea, I’m classless. I’m a Ratbird, what else would I be?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Talk about hypocritical!
Hines Ward knocks players out for the season or at least a few games (Bengals’ Rivers, etc.) and their fan is complaining about as clean a hit (Ray on Rashard) as there is in football!?
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 11, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t arguing who was more exciting. He claimed that Reed would have won the DPOY had they included the playoffs and I was letting him know that he was wrong. Harrison would have won it either way.
And I was bringing up that us Steelers fans love hard hitting football. That is why we would rather have hard-hitting Harrison than a field hawk (or whatever the hell you call him) Reed.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, those Steelers totally have the lockup on hard-hitting linebackers. Remind me again how many Ravens collar bones they broke last season.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 8, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Taking pride in injuring players. Thats the class I have come to know and expect from Ravens fans.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice straw man. On a related point, I’d like to say that I idolize the mature, knowledgeable, and classy Steelers Bandwagon.
I imagine that the Steelers front office makes very few of their decisions based upon what their bandwagon actually wants. And I’m still not getting why you persist in comparing apples to oranges with Harrison and Reed. Do you really think that the powers that be in Pittsburgh sat down for a meeting before giving Harrison his contract to decide whether to trade him for our “field hawk?” Because, when you were speaking for the Steelers FO, it seemed like that was what you were insinuating.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 8, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article made the comparison.
It said he would have won the DPOY award. Since Harrison won it, thats like saying Reed was a better defensive player last year then Harrison. Which is not true, so I pointed it out. Then you all started arguing that Reed is a more exciting player, which I never argued against. Apples to oranges, right?
And someone else brought up whether the Steelers would rather have Reed over Harrison, not I. Read to be informed.
And nice dodge on being a low class fan.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stand by it
Harrison is a very good LB who had a breakout season but Reed has been at the top for years and is so much bette than anyone else in his position (Troy is not a Free Safety). There are a bunch of “Harrison’s” out there, on a lot of teams, but only one Ed Reed. Harrison had a grat season, but he is neither more exciting than Ed, not more valuable. If you don’t think the Steelers and their fans would trade for Ed, then you’re clueless, as it surprised most Steelers fans when they re-signed Harrison recently, as they make up these very good linebackers when they need them, as we can all just list the good LB’s the Steelers let go.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 8, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said that if “voting had included the playoffs, he would have been the defensive player of the year.” Any expert will tell you that Reed was the hottest player in the NFL through the last quarter of the season and the playoffs. Reed had six interceptions in the last four games. He had two interceptions and a touchdown in the Miami playoff game. He was the most impactful defensive player at the end of the season and in the playoffs, the most important part of the season.
At the very least, this is a valid argument, and we can argue it on our blog if we wish.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 8, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I can refute it.
He had a good end of the season, sure. But it is the Defensive Player of the YEAR. Harrison was the best defensive player throughout the entire year.
And bragging about picks against a gadget offense and a candy arm Pennington is no tremendous feat. Then the rest of the playoffs he didn’t do anything.
Both guys had 1 defensive TD in the playoffs. Reed really did not have a HUGE post season compared to Harrison.
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And bragging about picks against a gadget offense and a candy arm Pennington is no tremendous feat.
Going into the game versus the Ravens, the Dolphins were bragging that they rarely turned the ball over, and it was true. Pennington was one of the least intercepted quarterbacks in the league and only threw seven interceptions all year. He threw four in that game. I think that getting two of those picks is a tremendous feat.
Then the rest of the playoffs he didn’t do anything.
Reed was seeing the field (and the ball) better than any player. Including the Steelers and the Titans, teams would rarely throw to Reed’s side of the field during the rest of the playoffs. He was preventing teams from throwing in his direction because of his mere presence. That alone has a huge effect. Reed was a big reason why the Ravens led the league in interceptions and were the league’s best passing defense with a very banged-up secondary.
Both guys had 1 defensive TD in the playoffs. Reed really did not have a HUGE post season compared to Harrison.
Outside of the of his defensive touchdown, Harrison only made one sack in the playoffs, including the Super Bowl. Reed did have a HUGE post season compared to Harrison. He had the best post season of any defensive player last year. Furthermore, Reed had an astounding ten interceptions through the last six games and the playoffs. Harrison only had six sacks and NO forced fumbles through the last six games and the playoffs.
I maintain that Reed was the best defensive player in the league at the end of last season, and if the voting had occurred later or included the playoffs, I believe that Reed would have won the defensive player of the year award.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 9, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. That still does not change the fact that Pennington does have a candy arm and that their offense is a gimmick. I still don’t think that is impressive. Really I don’t . And nothing will convince me otherwise. What good defenses did the Dolphins play last year. Besides the Ravens they played NE twice (whose D was down last year) and the Bills twice and the 49ers (both average at best offenses). Besides you and the Pats they played 0 defenses in the top 10. Thats probably the reason the bad team that they are, still made it to the playoffs.
2 and 3. That is a huge effect to an opposing teams offensive plans. In the same light, teams that played the Steelers double-teamed Harrison or took their best lineman and put them on him. That is the reason Woodley, on the other side, had 6 sacks in 3 playoff games. So his impact was just as big as Reeds in the playoffs.
by Johnny_S on Jun 9, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow!!!!!!!
Don’t be ignorant and not watch the whole video.
The first interception was a thing of beauty if you actually listen to an expert NFL analyst break it down.
But it is the 2nd interception that you need to realize. After watching the 2nd interception, I want you to come back and say it was not impressive.
You are insane.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what no one is saying...
…after that second interception, if Redd hadn’t tripped and fell he would have taken that one back 90+ yards for ANOTHER touchdown!
Harrison had a monster season, so did Haynesworth before getting injured. To me they were pretty close, but Reed was far and away the most feared, even more so than Harrison. Teams left their gameplans intact against Harrison but changed them to avoid Reed, whih makes his interceptions even more impressive.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 9, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After watching that video, I really have to hand it to Pennington. He had a very poor game to end his season, but came off as a professional and a gracious loser, and had nothing but good things to say about Reed. If only the Dolphins fans were so mature.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 11, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dolphins fans
were idiots during and after that game. I was there and you’d have thought they were Cleveland or Steeler fans the way they were talking trash, cursing us out and threatening to start fights.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 11, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They will get what they have coming
After they go 6-10 this year. Their schedule is extremely rough and they just are not that good.
by DT711 on Jun 12, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That still does not change the fact that Pennington does have a candy arm and that their offense is a gimmick.
I will actually agree with this. The Ravens showed the Dolphins up. The Dolphins relied on gimmick plays to move the ball. When they were forced to play real football, their offense imploded. It happened in both of the games that we played against them.
However, it does not take away from the incredible game that Reed had against them. During the first interception, he tracked the ball falling straight down above him and caught it over his shoulder. There are many receivers that couldn’t make that catch. Reed then took the ball sixty-four yards for a touchdown. Again, this was pure talent. The second interception was more impressive than the first, in my opinion. He actually started to break on the ball before Pennington threw it and before the receiver made his break. He came from the deep right of the field all the way to the shallow left to make that pick… in full stride.
I still don’t think that is impressive. Really I don’t . And nothing will convince me otherwise.
Reed’s performance versus the Dolphins was amazing. If that doesn’t impress you, you may want to stop watching football, because it doesn’t get much better than that.
That is a huge effect to an opposing teams offensive plans. In the same light, teams that played the Steelers double-teamed Harrison or took their best lineman and put them on him. That is the reason Woodley, on the other side, had 6 sacks in 3 playoff games. So his impact was just as big as Reeds in the playoffs.
That is a valid argument. However, if we’re only evaluating the end of the season and the playoffs, Reed still comes out on top. His individual statistics still soared throughout the end of the season and the playoffs while Harrison’s stats cooled off at the end of the season and in the playoffs. I have already given the statistics to back this up. The original argument was whether Reed would have been the DPOY if the voting had occurred later in the season or included the playoffs. I have given evidence to support my position and made a strong argument for Reed. You have given shallow augments and opinions with no facts. You have blindly held to them and stated that “nothing will convince [you] otherwise.” If that’s the case, then there is really no point in arguing any longer. This argument has become pearls before swine.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just said I made an valid argument than said “You have given shallow augments and opinions with no facts.” Uhhh what? I’ve listed nothing but stats in my entire argument.
Neither guy, statistically, had an outstanding playoff. Which is true. Both had large impacts on how the opposing offense approached the game.
Harrison was injured at the end of the season and teams began to double team him, thats why his stats cooled off. The guy still had 16 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, an Int, and 101 tackles. Over the whole season, not just the end, he had the largest impact of any defensive player (maybe Haynesworth woulda had it if he hadn’t missed those games). Those 3 or 4 games that Reed had were great, but that does not make an entire season. He would have gotten more votes than Ware had the voting been later, but Harrison would still have won because he had a better overall year.
by Johnny_S on Jun 9, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just said I made an valid argument than said "You have given shallow augments and opinions with no facts." Uhhh what? I’ve listed nothing but stats in my entire argument.
I wrote that first sentence before I realized the stupidity of your argument. Honestly, I almost went back and deleted the sentence…“That is a valid argument” but I decided to be nice and throw you a bone. Sorry about the confusion.
Harrison was injured at the end of the season and teams began to double team him, thats why his stats cooled off. The guy still had 16 sacks, 7 forced fumbles, an Int, and 101 tackles. Over the whole season, not just the end, he had the largest impact of any defensive player (maybe Haynesworth woulda had it if he hadn’t missed those games). Those 3 or 4 games that Reed had were great, but that does not make an entire season. He would have gotten more votes than Ware had the voting been later, but Harrison would still have won because he had a better overall year.
If you’re going to argue, stay on subject. This is a straw-man argument. The point was that if the voting had occured later and included the playoffs, the most important part of the season, Reed would have won the DPOY award. Reed had a very strong season for a safety in total and led the league in interceptions. He was hotter at the end of the season and even broke his own NFL record. Harrison cooled off… for whatever reason, but he DID cool off. Reed only got better, and I still believe that he had a better post season. He was the best defensive player in the playoffs. I’d challenge anyone to name one better. The game against Miami was one of the best individual performances I’ve ever seen in the playoffs.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 9, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had ONE good game in the playoffs. How does that make him the best defensive player in the playoffs? He did NOTHING against the Steelers, and they did NOT throw away from him.
Woodley definitely had a better post season then Reed. 6 Sacks in 3 games is bigger than 2 Ints in 3 games.
by Johnny_S on Jun 9, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had ONE good game in the playoffs. How does that make him the best defensive player in the playoffs? He did NOTHING against the Steelers, and they did NOT throw away from him.
Reed still played at an extremely high level in the rest of the playoffs. Obviously, stats do not tell the whole story, but you will obviously try to use the same argument with Harrison.
Woodley definitely had a better post season then Reed. 6 Sacks in 3 games is bigger than 2 Ints in 3 games.
Really? I noticed that you left out the touchdown. Reed had two interceptions and a touchdown. How are six sacks better than two interceptions and a touchdown? Sacks do not change possession. Anyway, this is subjective and not worth arguing.
The point is this… First, Reed’s strong finish and Harrison’s weak finish strengthen Reed’s contention for DPOY. Second, Reed’s performance versus Miami make his post-season performance better than Harrison’s by itself. I keep making these points, and you are avoiding them… Since these two factors were not considered in the DPOY voting, Reed’s best performances were not considered. Obviously, they make Reed a stronger candidate for DPOY. I believe that he’s a stronger candidate than Harrison and would have won it if those two factors were considered. That is my only point.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 9, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh my god...
Are you forgetting what you are posting? You said name a player who had a better post season and I did. Then you say its irrelevant
And I have said to you 1 game does not make you the DPOY. An entire season does. James Harrison had a better season than Reed. Hence 22 votes to 8. Reed may have had a better 3 game end of his season, but Harrison only played 2 of the last 3 games and was out for much of week 16’s game. He didn’t cool off, he just wasn’t playing, bc he had injuries and was resting for the post season.
He had the better year, and their post seasons were not very far a part. So if it had included the playoffs. Harrison would still have won the award.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you forgetting what you are posting? You said name a player who had a better post season and I did. Then you say its irrelevant
I said that comparing sacks to interceptions “is subjective and not worth arguing.” Responding to your weak, one-sentence argument for Woodley, I asked you how “six sacks better than two interceptions and a touchdown.” You did not address that. You are the one not reading the posts.
He didn’t cool off, he just wasn’t playing, bc he had injuries and was resting for the post season.
I actually laughed out loud when I read this. So, the voting needs to account for injuries and missed games? How does that work? Harrison had an amazing start to the season but quickly fizzled out. The best part of his season was considered for the voting and is why he won the award. My point, which you continue to avoid, is that Reed’s SEVEN (not three) game stretch was not fully considered in the voting because it occurred late in the season and extended into the post-season. If it had been considered in the voting, Reed could have won the award.
And I have said to you 1 game does not make you the DPOY. An entire season does. James Harrison had a better season than Reed. Hence 22 votes to 8. Reed may have had a better 3 game end of his season, but Harrison only played 2 of the last 3 games and was out for much of week 16’s game.
Exactly. I think that the entire season needs to be considered. That’s what I’ve been saying. I don’t think that Reed’s best performances were considered in the DPOY voting. He had a stellar year, and it’s a crime that his best performances were overlooked in the awards simply because they happened during and after the voting process.
As I have already stated, he had an amazing seven game stretch where he had ten interceptions and two touchdowns and broke his own NFL record for the longest interception return. That is a fantastic individual defensive achievement and better than anything that Harrison did all year. If those games had occurred at the beginning of the season, Harrison would have been overlooked, and Reed would have won the DPOY.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly give up
You don’t want to see any of my points and I’m not seeing any of yours.
You can have your what ifs. Harrison was the DPOY and the Lombardi trophy is where it belongs.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“I guess its also easy to back peddle on [an argument] and pretend like it [is a misunderstanding] on the internet.”
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we should keep replying in an attempt to make the comment box as small as possible.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce may think we’re trying to spam the site.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotten
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smaller?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess this is the
minimum size, eh?
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 11, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still have
no idea how harrison beat out haynesworth AND number 20 for DPOY. how long did it take him just to make an NFL roster. Ed Reed is a surefire hall of famer while harrison is just a one hit wonder. i cant wait till the season starts so the ravens can win the division and wipe that false sense of entitlement out of your thought processor.
by Shutemdown on Jun 25, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite play of last season
Was when Ray blew up Delicious aka Mendenhall in the whole and cracked his collar bone. How sweet that was.
The best part was that he ended his season.
by DT711 on Jun 9, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There we go again.
Classless Ravens fans.
My favorite play of last year was when Polamalu picked off Joe “The Choke” Flacco and returned it for a touchdown in the AFC Championship. I could collectively hear/see the hope fade away from every Raven fan. We went on to destroy you for the 3 game sweep of the year. And then, oh yeah, we won the Superbowl.
by Johnny_S on Jun 9, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I would figure that be a great play for you guys, as it was.
How long did you just sit there thinking of “The Choke”? Pretty good name to give someone when you have nothing to back it up with.
Oh yea, rookie QB’s are supposed to win the superbowl every year and beat the best defense in the league every time. Forgot.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If more post-season wins than any other rookie ever earns you the title “The Choke,” I have to wonder what Johnny_S was saying about Ben Roethlisberger back in 2004. He threw three interceptions against a New England team that wasn’t the number one defense in the league! Let’s hear it, Johnny_S. What ultra-witty nickname did you give Ben after that game?
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 9, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben "I can finally ride on two wheels on my bike" Rufflesburger
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben "Im bringing the mullet back" Turkeyburger
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know why those posted twice
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he really "won" those
And not your defense, right?
Flacco’s playoff line 23/74 435yds 1TD 3INTs.
Amazing.
by Johnny_S on Jun 9, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We dont get there
With Boller or even my boy Troy taking snaps.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I notice that you didn’t address the point that Ampallang was making about Roethlisburger. You just continued to attack Flacco.
It’s abundantly clear that you’re not interested in reason or logic. You just want to stir everyone up by insulting all of our players. You’d rather attack our comments than address our logic. That’s the sign of a very weak mind.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really are not reading any of this thread are you? They started bragging about hurting Mendenhall. Not until then did I insult your players. You just aren’t reading anything.
And yeah Ben flopped then, can’t argue that. Now he is in the top 3 QBs in the league. I probably said Ben choked then, because he did. Even choked in XL, but the running game/defense brought him through. I didn’t make him out to be a star when he was not, like you all do with Flacco.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mentioned hard-hitting football, and I gave you the perfect example to remind you that the Steelers aren’t the only team that plays that way. If you can’t accept that hard-hitting football means a style of playing that’s more likely to injure somebody, then why even bring it up at all? If you can’t handle the fact that your boy had his shoulder broken while playing a contact sport, then maybe you should take BAL_Hawk’s advice and check out a golf blog.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 10, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind that
But I mind “The best part was that he ended his season.” Reaaaal classy Baltimore.
I just don’t understand bringing up injuries. You didn’t say “That hit Ray put on Mendenhall was hard-hitting”. You have to say “Remind me again how many Ravens collar bones they broke last season.” Thats a shot.
If I started bragging about the shot Clark put on McGahee you would think the same thing.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I mind "The best part was that he ended his season." Reaaaal classy Baltimore.
I was saying that because it is so easy to get a rise out of you and you are a Steeler fan on a Ravens blog. I’m surprised you didn’t pick that up after we mentioned it 10+ times? Actually, judging by your arguments here, I’m not. It is our duty to antagonize Steeler fans whenever possible, since Steeler fans clearly can dish it out.
I know its hard to detect internet sarcasm but you shouldn’t get so worked up by a statement of someone you neither know from an online or real world perspective. I don’t really believe his injury was the best part of the season but its always fun to rile up a Shitsburg fan trying to talk smack at the Beatdown.
Hook, Line, Sinker.
As a side note, a head injury like Willis’ cannot be compared to a broken collarbone. One is potentially life threatening, while the other is a 3-4 month injury.
by DT711 on Jun 10, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention...
Ray’s hit on Mendenhall was clean and will always be clean. Clark put his shoulder into McGahee’s helmet, and that type of hit was made illegal his offseason.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 10, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark’s hit was clean at the time. He was playing within the rules and was not fined or penalized for it. You cannot blame him for that.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 Bal Hawk
Additionally, Clark had been criticized prior to that game for questionable hits. Welker, Matt Jones, and Willis all in one season.
by adh on Jun 10, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess its also easy to back peddle on a classless comment and pretend like it wasn’t sarcasm on the internet.
by Johnny_S on Jun 10, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got me
The hit was awesome, wasn’t it?
Nothing like some fresh squealer collarbone.
by DT711 on Jun 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like mine with A1
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 10, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOO NO NO
BEN WURFLESSSBUSHER would be lucky if he rounds out at the bottom 15, TOP 3?? what are you smoking sir? please let me get three ounces because you are obviously baked out of this solar system. that may be the funniest thing ive heard this whole off-season. he’s like tied for 17 with Kyle Orton. thats not out of nowhere by the way look up thier stats they’re almost exactly the same.
by Shutemdown on Jun 25, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Of course Harrison is going to hit slightly harder then Reed. He has about 65 extra pounds on him. Earlier in Reed’s career, he was famous around the league for jarring the helmets off of player’s heads with his hits.
There is no question that Harrison has an edge on Reed in tackling. That is because it is not Reed’s duty to be the initial tackler on every play like Harrison. And the hit Harrison put on Reed does not personify your argument. Reed was making a cut at a slower pace, and Harrison was running full speed when Reed did not see it. The punter could have made a tackle like that.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't say hands down
Both ware and Reed gave him competition last season. I do believe that Harrison was the DMVP of the year, but i also believe you couldn’t get mad if ethier reed or ware won it.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here were the votes
Harrison – 22
Ware -13
Reed – 8.
There are 50 total votes.
by Johnny_S on Jun 9, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again...
The voting occurs during the regular season. If the voting had occured later and included the playoffs, the most important part of the season, these votes would have been much different. I’m sure that Reed would have received many more votes. I believe that he would have won.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 9, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but here we're talking "most exciting"...
…And Reed definitely qualifies. You can make a strong case that he is the most dangerous post-INT returner ever to play defense. That’s saying a lot. And while I tip my hat to a guy like Harrison, there’s no way he has ever or will ever contribute to the raw number of points that Reed has put up. As far as that goes, I wouldn’t take anybody at Free Safety over Reed. Nobody in the NFL, probably nobody for all-time.
Steeler’s fans need to relax with this latest ring and stop splitting hairs to argue that Polamalu is better than Reed or whatever. This type of stuff doesn’t even matter. Troy has what Reed wishes he has, a RING. As for all this other stuff, its pretty fair to argue that Reed is the “more exciting” of the two just because of his INT-returns.
I’d ask this of Steelers fans: what defensive play changes a game more than a touchdown? What defensive player gets the most touchdowns? Reed. As far as hard-hitting, run support, and durability go, sure, you can give the edge to Polamalu. But here we’re talking “excitability,” and Reed’s gotta be the guy for that.
by jackmca on Jun 8, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was never arguing excitability.
I was arguing against this false statement:
“If voting had included the playoffs, he would have been the defensive player of the year.”
by Johnny_S on Jun 8, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reed can't hit that hard?
Have you watched any of his games? The man be killin WR and TE as they come across the middle. I admit that he isn’t a sure tackler like a Troy or Sanders, but he can deliever a powerful shot just as good, if not better then both of them.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 8, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaun Rodgers
How many votes did he get?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
zero.
dope DLineman. Not exciting though, unless you’re an aspiring DLine coach who gets hardons for tackles who take on double-teams.
by jackmca on Jun 8, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
Just making a joke. Around the Beatdown, we think Shaun Rodgers is along the lines of Zeus because Rodgers is so godlike.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont see how you dont think he is good.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 8, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course he's good...
…its just that we’re perfectly happy with a certain 25-yr-old named Ngata…
usually, when you don’t get a joke like this, its because you’re involved in it somehow. In this case, you are the butt of MaLoR’s sarcasm because you dilligently engage him in arguments about Rodgers when he’s not really even serious.
by jackmca on Jun 8, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
; )
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I don't think he is not good
He is definitely a top 5 DT in this league, hands down. I just love the fact that Browns fans are so up on this guy. His last season in Detroit is when he started to get recognized and sine the Browns gave up half their draft to get him, he became a bigger name then he needs to be.
I won’t argue that Ngata should have necessarily been in the pro bowl over Rodgers. (Even though he should have) But I could not stand the fact that Kris Jenkins of the Jets got it over Ngata.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We gave up one pick and i think a cb
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 8, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys didnt draft till day 2 that year.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind
It was a 3rd and leigh bodden. not sure where your other picks went that year though.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 8, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, how does it feel to have
your All Pro DT wanting out of Cleveland every time he’s interviewed!?
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 8, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesnt want out . If you have heard anything Rogers has said in the past few months he has been happy the direction we are going. He and Mangini have long since made up.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 9, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just because like in Detroit,
down is the only direction Rogers knows.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 11, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our first was gone from the Quinn trade and i think our second went to Corey Williams.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 9, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaun Rodgers rules. he’s a beast.
reed wil have another great season even though the entire league has game planned for him every year after his rookie season. harrison just hit the radar. we’ll see how he takes a beating this year or they run plays away from him. they’ve been running away from reed for years and he still gets his numbers. therefore, reed is way more exciting/valuable than harrison who will be bottled up this year. i can’t wait to see Oher put him on his back. 1 year wonder.
by raven on Jun 9, 2009 12:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HoF
Ask yourself this: If both Reed and Harrison retired tomorrow to never play another game again, who has a better shot at the HoF?
Who knows, maybe in seven years we will all be talking about how Harrision was the greatest LB to ever play the game and how could the Ravens ever have cut the guy?
Given both respective total bodies of work, Reed has it all over Harrision, today. In five, seven, ten, whatever number of years, that may be a different story.
Ask yourself this, if you could start your defense, today, and had to pick Reed or Harrison, to start it with, and only ever have one of them, who would you pick?
by vlad755 on Jun 9, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+++++++++++++1
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would love to see Johnny "Baltimore Loving" S answer this.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 9, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duh, no-brainer
Harrison might not even be in the first four or five picks if starting a team from scratch, but Reed is among the first defensive player taken, and Ray may even get picked before Harrison as well. (Ngata also!)
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 9, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
“what if’s” there, where’d Johnny go?
Nice post Vlad, to bad the steeler drones that float over here never respond when they know they are beaten… Steeler Archie did the same thing when he wanted to talk steroids.
by adh on Jun 11, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the Props
Thanks, y’all.
Steeler drone: isn’t that a repetitive statement as one is synonymous for the other?
Let me translate for all you Steeler fans: “synonymous” means “identical” or “one and the same”. I know, any non-plural word over seven letters is tough for y’all =P
We kid because we love -no hard feelings… ’cept when we play against you…
by vlad755 on Jun 12, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogers vs. Ngata
When you all say how everyone would take Ngata over Rogers, here is my opinion on that; If I were picking someone for 1-3 years, I would take Rogers. If I were picking someone longterm, I would take Ngata.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 9, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which is why Cleveland fans
are as clueless as their Front Office.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 11, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You will see how foolish that statement is
After Ngata destroys the league this year. He has improved a ton and is blowing people away at Ravens camps. He has not come close to maximizing his ability, yet. That is a scary thought.
Rogers on the other hand has peaked and is still a very good player, but we know where his ceiling lies.
I’m sure Cleveland would take Rogers over Ngata for this year. That kind of thinking is why they haven’t won a playoff game in the past ten years.
by DT711 on Jun 12, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just watch. Rogers will outperform Ngata again.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 13, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he’ll still be watching the Ravens in the playoffs from his couch.
Count it!
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 13, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did Rogers “outperform” Ngata? Ngata played on the better defense.
Don’t try the tackle or sack argument. The reasons that Rogers had more tackles and sacks are as follows: 1) Rogers was on the field much more than Ngata because the Brown’s defense was terrible. 2) Rogers was the best player on the Brown’s defense and had to make all of the tackles because the linebackers behind him were awful. Ngata had the NFL’s best linebackers behind him to make tackles. 3) Rogers’ sack numbers are also bloated since the Browns pass rush was very poor. He was the only player who could get off his blocks while the Browns defense was giving opposing quarterbacks all day to throw. The Ravens pass rush is fast, and Ngata would rarely get to the quarterback.
Ngata is young, athletic and consistently dominate. You cannot say the same about Rogers. Ngata is clearly better.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 14, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So true
There are so many good players on the Ravens defense that no one person ends up with super stats. But Roges is the only playmaker on that horrible team so he gets the stats while the others stand around and watch.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 15, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
D’Qwell had over 150 tackles for us. I wouldnt say he stood around and watched.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
DQ is a beast. Too bad hes on the Browns.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine then, two players make tackles
But on the Ravens, EVERYBODY does, that’s why we have such a swarming defense so no one gets all the tackles. Of course Ray gets them for being in the “vicinity” as Edgerton Hartwell could not deal with!
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 15, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for an entire game -Ngata..for one big belly flop over an o-lineman for a sack-rogers.
annnnddd the team spirit award goes to Ngata.
by raven on Jun 9, 2009 10:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what is cleveland browns?
oh, i thought we were doing a little Jeopardy.
by raven on Jun 10, 2009 9:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
let's close out the category
I’ll take “Teams in the Cellar” for $1000, Alex…
by adh on Jun 12, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bandwagon......
Actually, who the hell would want to jump on the Browns bandwagon? Do they even deserve to have one?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's at the bottom of Lake Sludge, er Erie.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 15, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont have a team from my state
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought the South Dakota Haybailers were a good team.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No not SD. That was a good one though.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
key west is not a state but what ever floats your pink jet ski
by raven on Jun 15, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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