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The Beatdown's Reasons Why The Ravens' Defense Will Be Better In 2009 Than 2008

We have all heard it time and time again.... "The Ravens D will fall off.  They lost Rex Ryan.  They lost key players in Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard who can't be replaced.  They are an aging defense.  Ray Lewis is done."

Of course, us knowledgeable guys at the Beatdown know the average fan just has no clue.  We have to disprove these falsities over and over and I think we are all getting tired of it.  So I have an idea....

Star-divide

Why not come up with a list of reasons why the Ravens defense will in fact be better in 2009, then 2008.  In this post you can list your ideas and expand upon some or all of them.

This way, when people question our defense, we can just link them to our post, and the facts will be clearly displayed for them.  I also think this will be a great source of information when finished, especially because there are so many smart, knowledgeable Ravens fans who post here.

I'll start us off.  My reason that our defense will be improved is our greatly upgraded secondary.(others could be regarding Ray's continued stellar play, Kelly Gregg and Landry's return, T-Good breaking out, Mattison taking less chances...)  We have depth and speed back at CB like never before in Ravens history.  I will expand on this later in the comments.

The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!

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REAL Starters back, the young athleticism we have and overall depth.

Those are my reasons. For all the average football fans out there who think our defense is “Aging” or whatever you call it, did you know the average age on that side of the ball is 28 years old? Seems pretty old to me…..

Sure, Ray Lewis, Trevor Pryce, Kelly Gregg and even Reed are getting up there. But these guys can still perform at a very high level. But the thing is, when you combine those proven veterans with the other young and physical freaks we have, this is IMO the most athletic defense in Ravens history. Landry and Kregg are back as well.

What I love about this year’s defense as opposed to last year’s is the overall depth we have on defense. At every position, there is a guy who is a back-up that can definitely start if needed. Last year, we were hurting come January and did not have they right amount of guys to get by Pitt when it really was needed. This year, we have guys from the D-Line to the secondary. Paul Kruger, Bannon to Jameel McClain, Burgess, Barnes, Ayenbadajo to ROLLE, Carr Webb, Walker, Zbi, Ruki. If the whole starting 11 went down, I think our back-ups could still be better then some of the defenses in this league.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 30, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yup
At every position, there is a guy who is a back-up that can definitely start if needed. Last year, we were hurting come January and did not have they right amount of guys to get by Pitt when it really was needed. This year, we have guys from the D-Line to the secondary. Paul Kruger, Bannon to Jameel McClain, Burgess, Barnes, Ayenbadajo to ROLLE, Carr Webb, Walker, Zbi, Ruki. If the whole starting 11 went down, I think our back-ups could still be better then some of the defenses in this league.

Ozzie was burnt before by lack of depth but it wont happen in 2009. The man is still improving as GM every year, which is scary considering how great he already is.

by DT711 on Jun 30, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

sum of additions > sum of departures

Landry is better than Leonhard, both as a tackler and in coverage.
Gooden is faster and more athletic than Scott – if he proves to have the intangibles then he will better than Scott by mid-season.
The still somewhat unproven Foxworth is better than the totally useless version of Chris McCalister the Ravens employed for the 2007 and 2008 seasons.
Nobody will run on the Ravens with Kelly Gregg and Halot Ngata both manning the middle.

Also improvement on special teams will help put the defense in better positions to succeed. Assuming the Ravens stick with one kicker, be it Haushka or Gano, they will consistently be able to get the ball deep on kickoffs AND have an extra spot open on the team for someone on the coverage units. This should help the overall quality and depth of the kickoff and punt coverage units, which in turn should help the defense with field position.

On the other side, the addition of Chris Carr as a return man should consistently give the offense better field position, which eventually translates to either less time the defense has to be on the field or better field position for the defense.

They say the empty can rattles the most...

by Massacre on Jun 30, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nobody will run on the Ravens with Kelly Gregg and Halot Ngata both manning the middle.

I hope you’re right. With the Vikings game coming up, I’m a little worried about our 100-yard rusher record.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

by Ampallang on Jun 30, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leonhard was great for us

Personally I am not so sure that Landry is better than Leonhard. I think lil Jim was the perfect fit with Ed Reed and losing him will hurt way more than we realize. His punt returns were also great. I like Landry but I am nervous he will be nervous when he goes to hit and although Jim is small he threw himself at people. I do believe our Linebacking corp is just as good but it will be our much improved offense that wins us games (for once)!

by Relocated_Raven on Jul 3, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

…….

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 3, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leonhard better than Landry!?

You are so, so wrong, but I understand your misguided opinion. Ed Reed makes anyone look better next to him, and that also goes for Landry. However, when you see Landry, you will see what a beast he is and will be a harder hitter and disruptive force, more so than little Jimmy Leonhard. Watch and see how mediocre that Leaonhard is without Reed to make him look good. While I liked Leonhard, Landry is a big upgrade and both aruki Nakamura and Tom Zbikowski would be as good or better than Leonhard.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 3, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I disagree ..

I don’t think it matters because Tom Zbikowski is the same player as Leonhard, including returning punts. He is the same “plays bigger than his size” type of instinctive safety. So even if Landry gets off to a slow start or whatever, Zbikowski (and Nakamure) provides excellent depth at safety.

by klunker18 on Jul 4, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Landry & Gregg

Like the poster above said, the return of those two is stupendous…

I do not think we will have that much of a drop-off from Scott to Gooden, even with the burden of one more year of age on Ray-Ray and Pryce. I think our additions at CB will more than make up for that deficit. And Carr improves our return game, which will help in the overall battle of field position/overall defense. All of this equals a net gain on our defense.

I know a lot of folks are high on our backups but many of them have had very limited NFL experience/unproven/rookies/etc. I am just a tad bit concerned about injuries. I agree we have more depth than last year on the defense as a whole, I would just rather not see that depth tested.

by vlad755 on Jun 30, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Improved secondary, improved defensive line, leadership...

I expect the additions we made at corner this offseason to increase the effectiveness of our entire secondary. Since Washington and Foxworth are both capable of playing man coverage against most receivers, it will give Reed more opportunity to roam in centerfield, which will hopefully result in more interceptions (and possibly touchdowns, or atleast opportunities to lateral the ball to a player who isn’t looking). Reed had an amazing year last year while having to pick up the slack of Walker and Rolle and I believe he will make a stonger case for DPOTY this season.

Speaking of Rolle, he has the potential to be a game changer at nickleback. I know his aging body has made it hard for him to be a shut down corner in the past couple years but his instincts are still there so I think he will make some big plays in passing situations. Having a nickleback who could be a starting corner on alot of teams should also help free up Reed for some effective safety blitzes on third down. If Mattison is going to coach similar to Ryan (like he claims he is) being able to blitz Reed in more situations will help make our pass rush more diverse and therefore more effective.

Combining a healthy Gregg with Ngata gives us the best interior line in football in my mind. I expect both of these guys to have big years and have a shot at making the Pro Bowl. If these two can perform like they are capable, it will give Lewis, Suggs, JJ, and Gooden the opportunity to be one of the best linebacking corps in the NFL.

Finally, we still have guys named Ray Lewis and Ed Reed on our team and I fully expect they will mentor and motivate our defensive players to be as good as ever. Even in years where we have been bad as a team, our defense has remained as one of the toughest and most feared in the league. I know our opponents are hoping for a letdown with the loss of Ryan, but I believe with the help of veteran leadership that Mattison should be able to turnout a top 5 defense in his first season.

by thecharmcitysportsblog.blogspot.com on Jun 30, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good idea, DT711. I have been arguing against these opinions for several months now. Basically, they’re the same main-stream opinions that we’ve heard every season since 2000. I don’t believe that Ryan’s departure will doom the Ravens’ defense. History shows that the Ravens’ defense continues to be great regardless of coordinators. I’ve heard this speculation for years. It was the worst when Marvin Lewis left in 2002, but it was virtually the same talk in 2005 when Mike Nolan left. Now, it’s the same talk with Rex Ryan. Obviously, Mattison is not guaranteed success. The players still need to perform, but the defensive tradition in Baltimore shows that the Ravens are consistently good at bringing in talented players and coaches. That has been the key to the Ravens’ success for years. I believe that our defense will improve for the following reasons:

1. The secondary upgrades.
Domonique Foxworth and Fabian Washington may not be Nnamdi Asomugha, but they are perfect corners for the Ravens’ system. Think about it. The Ravens blitz more than any team in the league and rely on their corners tremendously. If the corners cannot stick with their reciever, the opposing quarterback with simply throw the ball over the pass rush. That is how most teams, especially the Steelers, have beaten the Ravens in recent history.

In the Ravens’ system, the corners need to be fast and able to cover their man on an island. I think Foxworth and Washington are very capable of that. They are speedy corners and specialize in sticking with their receiver. The Ravens had trouble with Rolle and McAlister’s speed for years. Being able to man-up with receivers down the field will make the pass rush suffocating and give the secondary flexibility, something that has been lacking over the last two seasons and will also allow Ed Reed to roam free. Furthermore, the Ravens have added Chris Carr, resigned Rolle to a cheaper contract and drafted Lardarius Webb in the third round. They are deeper in the secondary than ever.

2. The emergence of young talent.
Ngata and Suggs are already excellent players, but I believe that they’re about to go off. Ngata is 25, and I think that he’s on the verge of an amazing, break-out season. Pro Bowl honors are almost a given if he stays healthy, but I also believe that he will be one of the league’s most dominate defensive players in the near future. Bold words… I know. Terrell Suggs is only 26 and was awesome last year. I believe that he’s only going to improve. Signing him to a long-term contract will make the Raven’s defense elite for many years. I believe that Suggs is underrated. You’d be hard pressed to find a player that can rush the passer and play in coverage like Suggs. Ngata and Suggs are super-stars and have just begun to scratch the surface of their abilities. Their continued improvement only improves the Ravens’ defense.

Tavares Gooden is another young player that I believe will emerge this season. Everyone talks about the void that Bart Scott left in the Ravens’ defense. I actually believe that Gooden will be better than Scott in the long run. Scott was a great player for us, but his role was to take on blockers and blitz on occasion. Willie McGinest described Bart Scott and his role very well. He said that "Bart Scott was the young guy that you’d send in to torpedo." Like defensive coordinator, the Ravens had several players play this role over the years and always managed to find excellent replacements. The role requires a player that is fast and athletic more than anything, and Tavares Gooden fits the bill. He’s younger, faster and more athletic than Scott. Sure, he may not be effective in coverage right away, but he’s already turning heads in team activities. Mike Preston of the Baltimore Sun picked Gooden as his break-out player of the year.

3. The return of the fallen.
Most people also believe that the loss of Jim Leonard will be devastating. That is just funny to me. Dawan Landry is one of my favorite Ravens and must be one of the best unknown players in the league. Leonard was Landry’s backup! The Ravens were lucky to have Leonard step-up since Landry was injured last season. Landry is an excellent strong safety, and in my mind, there is no question that Landry is better than Leonard. Therefore, our safety position is actually improved by Landry’s return. This also makes our defense better.

Finally, Kelly Gregg and Dwan Edwards are also returning from injured reserve. Kelly Gregg was considered one of the league’s most underrated defenders. The Ravens were also lucky to have Justin Bannan, who dominated in Gregg’s absence and really came into his own last season. Edwards is only a rotational player but is an excellent rotational player. Having Bannan and Edwards, two players that would start on most teams, in a rotation with Ngata, Pryce and Gregg makes our defensive line one of the best and deepest in the league.

by BAL_Hawk on Jun 30, 2009 10:20 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Its funny

Today on ESPN, they were talking about the AFC North and all the changes that have been made. They went down the list and talked about the Steelers resigning Harrison and drafting Hood. Cleveland hiring Mangini, and Cinci drafting Andre Smith. Of course, when they got to the Ravens, they did not speak of any of the many additions we added this year and focused on us losing Rex, Scott and Leonhard. Wiley even said that the loss of Leonhard would be tough and that Rex Ryan will hurt us even more. He made it seem like Baltimore does not have faith in Mattison.

I love and I hate the fact that these “experts” talk about us the way they do. They get paid to talk and analyze football, but in the end they are what I like to call “average football fans”

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jun 30, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They did say we will still be a top 5 defense, but...

…the losses will hurt us, according to ESPN. They are so mainstream, I want to puke. They seem to forget every year when we lose somebody, be it a player or a coordinator, we just reload.

The key this year is that now we have so much depth at every position that we are better prepared than ever before to deal w/ injuries. That will ensure our staying among the top 2-3 defenses and very likely the top one. Age doesn’t matter when your a smart player and work out like Trevor Pryce and Ray Lewis do better than most 25 year olds. Also, when you have talent all around you, every player has every other one’s backs, so we will be flying to the ball w/ smarts, strength and now speed!

Great topic! PROMOTED!!!

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 1, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the Ravens defense...

…is going to be better this year because…

It will be in “Animal-feasting, baby-eating, what-am-I-seeing?, R-Kelly-peeing, Chuck-Norris-when-he’s-seething, baby-crying-like-he’s-teething, hair-bleaching, tire-screeching, BEAST MODE” this year.

by jackmca on Jul 1, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean...

…that was really all I could contribute to the conversation because you guys pretty much covered it. We can keep adding to the rhyme though…

by jackmca on Jul 1, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, that pretty much sums it up

Loved it!

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 1, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

to the Super Bowl reaching? Shaun Rogers is a whale beaching?

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 1, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's gonna be the...

…earthquake-raping, life-taking, money-making, record-breaking, stadium-shaking, rookie-hazing, Mendenhall-shoulder-breaking, more-than-amazing Baltimore Ravens.

by jackmca on Jul 2, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be an understatement to say that we are...

game-changers, money-makers, trip-takers, face-breakers, non-violent-Quakers, girlfriend-takers, speed-racers, paint-flakers, and playmakers, most importantly.

by jackmca on Jul 2, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!

Bruce you seriously just made me spit out my drink! That was Awesome!

by FEARtheTERP1 on Jul 3, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My pleasure

My kids know me as my alter-ego: Notorius D.A.D. or P-Daddy!

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 3, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

CB Depth

I looked back to the CB’s who suited up for the Ravens in 2007, since we went into that season with expectations similar to this upcoming year. Of course that season didn’t play out like we all would have wanted for a variety of reasons. Poor QB play was a major one, as was very poor CB play. It seemed any team with a good QB (Manning, Palmer…) was able to throw the ball at will on us. Our corners just weren’t good enough or fast enough to get by. All that equaled a very disappointing 5-11 season.

If we were to point out one weakness of the Ravens D in the past decade, it has to be defending the pass, as our run D has been consistently stellar, as has our LB and DL play. During the 2007 season these 8 corner backs saw time….

C-Mac
Rolle
Ivy
D. Martin
D. Pittman
W. Gaston
R. Prude
J. Winbourne

Not a good group, no matter how you look at it. McAllister and Rolle were both solid but both battled injuries and age. Their speed was not what it once was and allowed top WR’s to beat them with double moves. Behind them is where we really struggled. Ivy is a nice nickel or dime back and special teamer but cannot start at CB. He is just too small and does not have the speed to play on the outside. The rest of the corners are journeymen at best. Our depth was deplorable that year and we payed dearly for it.

Ozzie Newsome, being the wizard that he is, realizes that smart orginazations turn their weaknesses into strengths. He saw that we were lacking young talent, speed and depth at the position, so he did something about it. Over the past two off seasons he has made savvy trades, (Fab for a 4th round pick was a steal), smart, affordable free agent pickups, (Walker, Carr and Foxworth – While Fox was not cheap, Oz paid market value), restructured the contracts of a valuable veteran who most thought was out the door, (Rolle) and did what he does best – find young cheap talent in the middle rounds of the draft (Webb). All these moves has given us depth, talent and speed at the position like never before. We posses the fastest CB tandem in the league, and have 3 reserves who can start capably in a worst case situation….

Washington
Foxworth
Rolle
Carr
Walker
Webb
Gerard
Martin

Granted, all of those guys will probably not make the final roster, but that is some great talent at the position. Looking back, Martin might have been our 4th best corner in 2007, possibly 3rd, depending how you feel about Ivy.
This year he is going to struggle to make the team. Now that’s some depth.

This is one of the main reasons why I am so optimistic about our chances of beating the Colts, and making a deep run. We know our run D will be stellar, especially with Buddy Lee’s return. Now with corners who can actually run with faster WR’s (Holmes, Harrisons of the world), our pass rush should greatly improve. With the extra time, I can see Suggs having a monster season.

You guys did a great job at listing reasons why our D will be improved in 2009. It’s funny how non Ravens fans like to beat the same drum, over and over again, as to why our D will fall off. Every year they are proved wrong, yet every off season the talk starts back up. I am optimistic that this can be one of our top defenses since our SB year.

by DT711 on Jul 1, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I feel what your sayin

Our CB’s are young and very fast, but their also very raw. Washington had a great season last year. He only had 1 pick but had about 18 pass deflections, leading our team. The one thing that worries me about him is if he can do this for another year. He has the talent but it needs to be shown again this year.
Foxworth is another guy who didn’t have a high INT rate with one, but he deflected 11 passes and also recorded 38 tackles, 35 of them being solo. The thing that really concerns me about foxworth is the fact that he played a cover 2 scheme in ATL. Hopefully, he can make the transition from a cover 2 scheme to the attacking scheme we play.

FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Benji5203 on Jul 1, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea but

i’d swap Gerard for Walker anytime.

by jackmca on Jul 2, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly. Word is that Gerard has a serious nose for the ball. He may or may not pan out, but we know exactly how little to expect from Walker.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

by Ampallang on Jul 2, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Walker isnt that bad

I just think we all got a bad rap from him because he was starting for us at one point. He is not a starting CB in this league what so ever, but I like the physicality and pressure he brings at the nickel and dime spot.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 2, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Walker IMO is very solid if he is your 4th or 5th CB. He is one of the most physical corners on our roster. I think he fills a role here.

by DT711 on Jul 2, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

      just having gregg and landry back make up for all the loses. leonhard was a nice “rudy” story so we will see what the future has in store for him. our current LB’s (other than Ray) can get to Barts level soon. The speed of the younger LB’s might be enough to make up for Barts lost experience. I’m actually more excited to see the LB play this year. The DB additions make us deep and healthy. Ray and Ed still coaching. yep, we’re better.

by raven on Jul 1, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, positive comments?

Well hen, raven, how’s ’bout them wideouts?

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 1, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it is entirely possible

that tavares gooden will turn out to have been an upgrade over Bart Scott. He’s the more natural athlete of the two. He’s an equally high-energy “let-me-hit-something” type of guy.

by jackmca on Jul 2, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

FYI

When you do +1 or rec a good post, you should click on the actions button of that post and click rec. This way the comments with multiple rec’s will stand out, and the post with rec’s will stay at the top of the fanpost list.

It took me a while to figure this out so just wanted to pass it along for those who may not be aware.

by DT711 on Jul 3, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

by Ampallang on Jul 3, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

-1

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 3, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

= 0

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 3, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why don’t our recommended comments turn green like the other SBN blogs?

by BAL_Hawk on Jul 5, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because it’s purple or nothing.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

by Ampallang on Jul 5, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 6, 2009 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also the ravens had to deal with a RB by the name Chris Johnson which had 4.28 40 yard and was injuried later that game but the ravens can stop them because the QB issue with a QB

by 2000 ravens on Jul 1, 2009 8:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hard to be "better"

I second most of what everyone else has already said… amazing depth at cornerback, young linebackers and the return of injured players should all contribute to making the defense better (although I am somewhat hesitant to celebrate the return of Landry and Gregg because there’s no guarantee they won’t get re-injured or that someone else won’t get inured during the year… team success is often determined by how well a team handles the injuries it inevitably sustains).

Anyway, all that being said, I think it’s going to be awfully difficult to improve on the performance RayRay, Ed and company turned in last season. The best defense in history (2000 Ravens) gave up only 247 ypg and last year’s defense gave up only 13 yards-per-game more than that (260 ypg). So how much can they improve?

The other thing that’s going to hurt the defense (statistically) is that the offense should be much improved. Discounting their five losses the Ravens had some of their worst yardage games in blowout WINS (352 vs Dolphins, 355 vs. Texans and 327 vs Cowboys). I anticipate the offense will be much better this season, because I expect Joe to make a big leap forward, and therefore, with big leads, the defense will gamble more during blowouts and give up a few more long plays and late-game scores.

Part of the reason the Stealers’ defense was ranked Number 1 last season was they played in nine games decided by 8 points or less. Their defense was always fighting to keep them in the game. The Ravens, meanwhile, only played in four games decided by 8 points or less.

So will the defense be “better”? Well, there won’t be a “performance” dropoff, but they probably won’t be better statistically. However, they’ll be better when it counts (big games and playoffs). The offense will score more in those games and put pressure on the other team’s quarterback and we’ll turn Suggs, Pryce, Jarrett Johnson, Jameel McClain and Paul Kruger loose. The defense should, therefore, turn in a “2006-like” performance, with more sacks (60 in ’06) as opposed to the 33 they got in ’08 and 35 they had in 2000.

Of course, it all goes without saying that the 2009 defense will obviously be better than ‘08 and ’06 because they’ll be hoisting the Lombardi Trophy…. so all that will be left after that is to compare them to the 2000 crew.

by Sprizouse on Jul 1, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping for a better defense

in points allowed. We gave up too many in our losses, other than Pittsbrugh (Indy, Giants) and I want us to keep those better teams scoring down, much less win those games. Also, the sacks have to increase as we were lucky last year that so many “hurries” led to interceptions rather than completions.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 2, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not to worried about the sacks

I like the fact that we hurried the QB and made them throw ints. Its nice to sack the QB and all, but if you can make him throw before he wants to, we all know who will be back there waiting to pick it off and take it to the house.

FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Benji5203 on Jul 2, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The one thing I believe our D has to improve on is stoping that littlebull s*** short passing game Pitt. always seems to beat us with. I seen it every time, it will be 3rd and 4, Big Ben play action and throws a quick little slant to Holmes for about 10-15 yards. That is the one thing that kills me.

Also, if were gonna blitz Ben, we gotta make sure we bring him down. How many times have we seen this guy escape a sack, runs to the sidelines, thorws the ball while getting hit and makes a huge comletion or even worst, a touchdown.

FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Benji5203 on Jul 2, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Saw you joined Jared Gaither's site

Not bad for a player, eh?

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 2, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I total agree….Benji,
I get so sick watching ben throw a completion from his knees, they have the most luck in the NFL.

by ravencrazy on Jul 2, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Our defense wants to take away the big play

Remember how many times Samari Rolle gave up the first down or every time a pass was completed for 5-8 yards, but he never seemed to get beaten long? That’s because we have the bend but don’t break mentality. We’ll trade FG’s with the thought that at some point we’re going to break through, be it offensively or defensively.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 2, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Team Sport

I’m sure every Ravens fan on here knows why the defense will be improved based on looking at defensive personnel, so I won’t go into that. What I want to add is that my belief that the offense has improved will also lead to a better defense. The offensive line is better (addition of Oher, Birk negates the loss of Brown, and overall extra experience for a very young line), McGahee will be fully healthy, and Rice will have more experience as well. This will lead to an even better running game. So Flacco can lean on the running game once again, and we can control the clock. But Flacco will develop into a better passer this year as well. That same improved O-Line will give Flacco better protection and allow the TEs to run routes instead of stay in and block. This all points to more significant leads than last year, which means other teams will be forced to become one dimensional and our secondary will be licking their chops.

by klunker18 on Jul 4, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great point

Once the opponents fall behind early and are forced to abandon the running game which wouldn’t have succeeded anyway, then our defense will have even more opportunities to create turnovers.

Absolutely correct. Hopefully that will happen against teams like Minnesota, so someone like AP won’t have too many opportunities to carry the rock against us, as they are forced to pass to play catch up. I can’t wait for Favre to sign w/ the Vikes so we can plant him!

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 5, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just wish reed would play his position and stop screwing rolle up…LOL.

by raven on Jul 7, 2009 12:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lets be real

Bengal fan here. First of all I do not think your D is going to fall off much if any, but come on.
Bart Scott was the best last year and Leonhard was great as well according to you guys and me too. Now that they are gone Gooden is better than Scott and Landry is better than Leonhard??!! That is like us saying that TJ won’t be missed because of Coles. Of course we will miss TJ and you guys will miss Scott and Leonhard. They weren’t just a couple of guys. Gooden and Landry have excellent talent and potential but to elevate them to the status of the guys they are replacing is just a bit over the top IMO. The play on the field will of course tell all but shouldn’t you guys expect just a bit, a little bit, of a fall off? I am rooting for Coles too but I don’t expect him to just come in and replace TJ. Ray is still a great LB but lets face it he isn’t the sideline to sideline tackler he was. Oh he is still better than anyone we have but he has lost a step. I appreciate your optimism but lets keep it real.

" My enemy said "Love your enemy". I obeyed and loved myself." Gibran

by JUNGLEJOHN on Jul 7, 2009 9:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

TOTALLY DISAGREE ON ALL COUNTS!

For your Bengals, yean TJ was real good and he had the chemistry with Carson, but remember, TJ was a #2 reciver and always got the 2nd best corner covering him. Let’ see how he does as a #1 before you miss him too much. Coles was a #1 in NY and covered by the opponents #1 CB, so he will do just fine in Cincy as it all depends on how your o-line protects Carson anyway, which would scare me as a Bengals fan (which thankfully, I’m not).

As far as the Ravens, Scott was good but not great. Ray made them all look great then they left and returned to mediocrity (Hartwell, Thomas, Sharper, next Scott). Leonhard was a surprisngly successful stopgap, but he was only there because of injury and wouldn’t have started in 2009 even if he re-signed w/ us. No, I’ll take Gooden and Landry over Scott and Leonhard ANY day! You just don’t know our Ravens very well.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 7, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh good! It’s my first chance to use the Beatdown’s Reasons Why The Ravens’ Defense Will Be Better In 2009 Than 2008 fanpost.

Please follow the link above and read the fanpost. My comment in that post actually addresses the loss of Scott and Leonard specifically. We have heard your arguments hundreds of times from other people. We created a fanpost that refutes those arguments so that we don’t need to continually have this discussion.

by BAL_Hawk on Jul 7, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sorry about the above comment… I didn’t realize that I was in the above fanpost. I haven’t had my coffee yet…

Anyway, I cannot believe that you’re making the arguments that this fanpost refuted… in the fanpost comments! There are several comments above that disagree with your opinions. Maybe you should read and address those first.

by BAL_Hawk on Jul 7, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I am just too lazy right now to tell this guy why he is still an average football fan.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 7, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey guys

I think I am very knowledgeable about football – not a guru – but most knowledgeable among everyone I know personally. I do not claim to know everything about your team but I would expect that it is possible I know more about your team than you do mine. That is why I am here. To learn. I just gave my opinion based on what I thought I knew and expect to be corrected if I am wrong. If you have had this argument over and over to the point you are tired of hearing it I understand but don’t judge me based on one mistaken post. Ask me about my team and I will get the answer for you if I don’t already know it.

Thank you Bruce Raffel for explaing the situation to me rather than resorting to smack. You made a good point about Coles/TJ and it is our hope as well that this is the case. I still think Bart Scott is the best safety in the NFL but I thought Leonard was very good and Landry hasn’t shown me he is better yet. If you say he is – well you know more than I do. I will admit that your D dropping of a bit might be a bit more wishful thinking than reality. We are tired of you guys kicking our ass and hope to do something about it..

Listen guys, I come here to talk football. I love football and want to expand my knowledge about the division. Put down smack, examples being by MaLor and DT711 do nothing to to improve the discussion. Their inclination to throw smack on someone who visits you board and says something that is incorrect rather than explain the situation gives me the impression that they are possibly the average fan here. On Bengal/Raven game day I will hate you guys. When you pound on the Steelers (especially Ward) I will love ya. I am not here disrespecting you. Maybe you can learn a bit more about your team from a division rivals perspective or ask a question about the Bengals that you may be curious about a Bengal fans perspective on without the irritating 3rd grade smack that is so prevalent on most boards. Hell I can get that anywhere. I am looking for more substance.

I didn’t come here and say “you guys are a bunch o thugs” – “we are gong to kick your ass this year” – “Palmer is God” – “the Ravens suck” – “you are still average fans” – " sigh" I come here respectfully and expect to be treated like I would treat a visitor to my home. If he is an asshat I throw him out if he is respectful we can disagree, even argue, and still enjoy a cup of coffee or a brew and a laugh. Its all good guys. If you want smack I can throw it with the best of them. I just think it is infantile and stupid as it does not advance but rather stifles intelligent discussion. What say you?

" My enemy said "Love your enemy". I obeyed and loved myself." Gibran

by JUNGLEJOHN on Jul 8, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well with comments like this
Landry is better than Leonhard??!!

We are going to eat you alive with replies. To answer your question, YES, Landry is miles above Leonhard. Check the stats out.

Jim Leonhard: 54 Games played in over 4 seasons with 20 starts – 141 tackles (111 solo), 1 sack, 3 interceptions, 1 TD

Dawan Landry: 34 Game player over 3 seasons with 32 starts – 162 tackles (123 solo), 4 sacks, 5 interceptions, 1 TD.

So again, YES, Landry is way better then Leonhard. Leonhard was a product of our system and even more, playing next to Ed Reed. Also, Leonhard is only 5’8", 185 pounds compared to Landry’s 6’1", 220 pounds, and many will tell you around Baltimore that Landry looks bigger then ever. Leonhard was great for us, but Landry is greater. I’ll take Landry tackling Brandon Jacobs then little Leonhard.

The one thing we MIGHT miss is his punt returns. That is it, but we brought in guys like Chris Carr (who turned the Titans’ from 32nd to 1st in the league last year in returns) and Lardarius Webb.

So after giving you every detail you could possibly need, can you please tell me your reason for stating…..

Landry is better than Leonhard??!!

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 8, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Expand Please
Put down smack, examples being by MaLor and DT711 do nothing to to improve the discussion.

I wrote sigh because I was tired at the end of the work day and did not have the energy to restate what is already in this post and all over this blog. Please show me where I use “put down smack”, without reason.

I feel that as the original poster of this fanpost I have added a great deal to this discussion.

Do you have a problem with something else I’ve done? If so, please be more clear as your baseless claim really adds nothing to improve the discussion.

by DT711 on Jul 8, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously. Some Bengals fan comes into a post dedicated to telling people why our defense won’t drop off, ignores what’s already been said while making the same claims we’ve refuted (ad nauseum, it feels like), and then cries when we don’t treat him like a special snowflake. I think BAL_Hawk said it best when he linked JUNGLEJOHN to the very thread in which he posted! Intentional or not, that was absolutely brilliant.

Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.

by Ampallang on Jul 8, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought about that right after I posted my apology… I was hoping that someone would point out the irony.

by BAL_Hawk on Jul 9, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for visiting and please keep posting. we’re just a cranky bunch but don’t read too far into that. we have never flagged and never will but we like to give it to visiters….and we can take it. keeps it lively. smack is great because the x’s and o’s are too obvious. like the bengals finishing last in the division this year. you’ve got a huge mess up there. if you start slow your are toast. that team is on the verge of running marvin out if he tanks this year.

by raven on Jul 8, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

our D sags with every year ray ages BUT the infusion of young talent is there. as long as he keeps dudes in there positions the speed of the youth will make up for inexperience. ray is like a missile guidance system. the kids don’t need to think too much. he calls the plays and they react. thats why Leohard was so successful. ed and ray put the play on the T and let all the other guys T off.

by raven on Jul 8, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This years standings:

Pitt 12-4 (young O players got substantial time last year..huge benefi..Bens a beast..won SB with crap o-line)

Ravens 10-6 (receivers?…flacco 24-75 in playoffs..outside of Rice putting on muscle I don’t see ANY O improvement since we walked off Heinz field)

Cleveland 7-9 (Quinn goes the way of Leinhart goes the way of Boller goes the way of Stoney Case.)

Bengals 7-9 (who’s driving this boat anyway..All hope falls on Coles, a beat up QB and a Ocho Oldo..special 17th game played at local high school to decide Ohio Championship)

by raven on Jul 8, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No Ravens improvement?

What about another year of experience? What about 16 games plus a full off season under Flacco’s belt. C’mon, raven, look deeper than just personnel moves like the average fan. You’re a heck of a lot better than that comment.

Plus no way both Cleveland AND Cincy win at least 7. Bengals maybe, if healthy, but not Browns.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 9, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe its time for a

 “Why or offense will be better in 2009 then 2008” post.

by DT711 on Jul 9, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry

" My enemy said "Love your enemy". I obeyed and loved myself." Gibran

by JUNGLEJOHN on Jul 9, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm really sorry

I am sorry you guys feel that way. I was hoping that all of my buds here in Cincy were wrong when they told me that you can’t really have friendly discussion on a Ravens board as a Bengal fan. I will still visit as a couple of you seem to be an exception and I will try my best to separate the wheat from the chaff. I recently posted on one to he Bengal boards and told them I was surprised that the discussion was as cordial as it was and now I have to go back and tell them that they were right. The same old cliches and worn out disrespectful opinions. Thinking that smack and disrespect for visitors equals toughness. Thinking that unwillingness to tolerate disrespect equals weakness. I just don’t need it. Oh I can take it but I was hoping for something more and and that continues to be my hope so my search for civility continues. Like I said I can find fan driven, room temperature IQ drivel anywhere as that is easy to do. A board that I thought was above the rest appears to be just run of the mill. It is my loss. I would love to continue to post here but I am not willing to just be a target. To those of you who were willing to engage in real dialogue – thanks. To the others – no thanks.

" My enemy said "Love your enemy". I obeyed and loved myself." Gibran

by JUNGLEJOHN on Jul 9, 2009 8:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Enjoy the Ohio fans, then

Cleveland’s site’s fans were the harshest and least knowledgeable we saw, then came Cincy. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but we remember how they trolled all over here before last season telling us how terrible we were coming off of a 5-11 season and how they’d kill us (we swept you in case you forgot), then after we won the first game, they said they’d still win more games than us the rest of the year and beat us in their own house. Remember what happened? So don’t get your tighty-whiteys in such a tizzy if you come here with those lame opinions, even if you are entitled to them, and not expect the tongue-lashing that you got and deserved, but obviously can’t take from the host’s site.

Thanks for the easy target, though!

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 9, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is not that I can't

I can take it. I just want to talk football. Maybe other Bengals fans talked trash. There are fans from every team that do. Don’t you think I know I was an easy target? I was just hoping that you wouldn’t choose the easy target but rather the harder and more challenging tact of intelligent discussion without all of the hate. I can’t think of any time I was disrespectful to your team. Did I have a lack of understanding of your team regarding Gooden and Landry. Yea. I’m sure you don’t know as much about our team as I do either. Can’t we just present the facts and correct each other without the vitriol? Like I said I can get mouth breathing smack anywhere. I want to discuss and yes perhaps argue a bit about football.

It takes thoughtful logic to separate the wheat from the chaff. If a black man breaks into your car do you assume that all black men would do that? Yea, I realize that many people find gang talk and smack fun but nobody ever won a debate by saying “well then Fu*k you”. I am just looking for more than that and come away disappointed and will continue my search. I just left a Bengal board where about a dozen of my fellow fans just got thru telling me “I told you so – those Raven fans should all live in caves”. My response was " No not all of them – just many of them". Hell we are all American citizens who have a vested interest in the common good and I can’t find a single board, except for one of the Steeler Boards, where rivals can discuss football and our teams without snide and disrespectful banter. What hope is there for the world when we can’t even talk about common interests without all of the hate.

Before I leave I will say this. Some of you are thoughtful and smart as well as cordial and respectful. I enjoyed your posts, accepted your corrections of my misconceptions and would like further dialogue with you but I am just not inclined to wade thru your mouth breathing, finger in the nose, inbread cousins to find it. I am looking for more. Someone should create a football site where you have to take a test and demonstrate that you have an IQ at least slightly above room temperature to join. As far as our rivalry in the division goes remember this. Pride comes before a fall.

" My enemy said "Love your enemy". I obeyed and loved myself." Gibran

by JUNGLEJOHN on Jul 10, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JungleJohn

Not too sure what chaffed you s much to rant about how classless most of us are? We thought your comments about our team were so general and baseless in nature. Just like we’ve heard not only from you, but legions of Bengals and Browns fans, who are legendary around the league as brash, pointless and genrally without a clue. Sorry if this offends you but other sites all seem to agree.

However, don’t feel alone. The so-called experts say the same thing about the Ravens defense losing Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard and Rex Ryan. They also did the same thing when we lost former LB’s Jamie Sharper, Edgerton Hartwell, Adalius Thomas and Defensive Coordinaotrs Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan. So why should this be any different from a lack of knowledge from those around the nation and league about our always dominant defense? Misery loves company.

Don’t get so upset when passion brings out pride and an avalanche of backlash. Back it up or just tolerate it in good nature. Peace.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 10, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got to remember.

We are dirty, murdering, bounty placing Rat Birds, right? I think your original comments came off as the stuff that an average visitor would post. Not knowing that we have a starter coming back to take a back-ups’ spot and asking us how we are going to be better. Really???

But hey, you don’t like us, peace out. Kirkendall is a cool guy over at your blog, but others I guess can’t take a little hazing.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 9, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry Rexx but I can’t give us another win until i see how the O starts. on paper we aren’t better. d-williams is a ? mcgahee is a ? to a degree. Clayton is a ? rice’s use is a ? cam is a ? flacco should be better. how will McClaine be used? Oher is a rookie. Heap is a huge ??? can he stay healthy. his backup (?) has lacked real reps. mason is the only factual threat. marcus smith might not even start. we have a lot of HOPE. i think pitts Ben and Ward are 2 games better than us today. that may change in October but today we have more hope than proven full season O success. 12-4 and 10-6 is fair.
i’m not being negative and 10-6 might get us in the playoffs. that’s a totally realistic record. if cleveland and the bengals are healthier as people seem to think, those 4 games should be tougher than last year. they imploded big time last year. also, like a pitcher, the league has film on flacco. if marcus smith is good I might add 1 win. but i’m not counting on that.

we should make the playoffs but the O will be the same when we get there. that won’t be enough. good yes great no. 12-4 is great.

by raven on Jul 9, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Every team has questions

We just have less then most teams. That’s why we are one of a handful of preseason SB contenders.

Also, I think we are better on paper, on both sides of the ball. You can see all the reasons in this thread for reasons why the D will be better.

The offense will be better for reasons such as….
-Flacco’s maturation and improvement should be substansial – #1 Reason
-Cam will open up the playbook w/ an experienced signal caller – Cam was named the top O coordinator in the NFL
-Ray Rice and McClain will improve after having a year of experience carrying the ball
-McGahee should be healthy and be better then last year by default
-Clayton should continue to show the chemistry with Flacco they developed late last year
-Our O-Line will be improved – By mid season Oher will be an upgrade from Anderson and Birk is at worst a lateral move from Jason Brown. Gaither, Grubbs, Chester and Yanda all have another year of experience.
-Marcus Smith, Kelly Washington, or Demetrius Williams all have an opportunity to step up. I have a feeling at least one of them will take advantage.
-L.J Smith is an additional athletic pass catching option at TE
-Synewski will return, adding a physical blocking TE to the mix

Remember, our offense took huge strides last season, and that was with a rookie QB. I see no reason why a similar improvement can’t be made in 2009.

by DT711 on Jul 10, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, Sypniewski will not be ready

and his career might be in jeopardy as his injury is just not healing and he had another surgery in the past couple of months. That is definitely part of the reason we selected TE Davon Drew in the draft.

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 10, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

raven Raises some Valid Points, but I have to Respectfully Disagree

Yes, Mason is a year older and probably will break down by the end of the year. But the very young three of the starting five O-Linemen have an additional year of experience. O-line play is as much about chemistry as it is about strength, technique and speed. These three have chemistry. And I think people are sleeping on the value of the addition of Birk. He is basically one of the best at his position and people kind of yawned with his announced arrival… I know center is not a sexy position, but he is the one in charge of line-calls and blocking assignments. He is the one that has to direct traffic when the defense switches at the last second. Watch closely at what a center does when he crouches down right before the ball is snapped: he is pointing, he is turning his head yelling out instructions -he is almost like a QB in that regard.

I know Oher is a rookie, but he is at RT. There is some margin of error as there is usually a chipping or blocking TE with the RT. His pure athleticism will allow him to recover from mistakes his first year until he learns the RT game.

I think as Flacco is given a little more lee-way, you are going to see improvement in the passing game, no matter who is in the pattern. Yes admittedly our WR’s are spare, but a good QB can help that. Our current crop of receivers are not known for drops (unlike the bunch in C-town) so if they can get open, even a little, I am confident Flacco will deliver the mail to them.

Our running game does have some questions: will Willis bounce back? Can McLain be as productive as last year? Can Ray Rice step it up to the next level? I think the potential is there for a monster, as since we have three legitimate ball carriers to share the load, they should all still be fresh as a daisy come December. No guarantees, but potential.

What do we know: we know that Cam is a competent X’s and O’s guy and calls a good game; he basically has the same parts as last year, with some improvement -we hope. We did not lose to P-burgh by that much. If our offense can improve by as little as one more score per game (and the associated improved field position battle), think what a huge difference that would have made in many of the games we lost last year, Giants and Colts notwithstanding.

I know I am a homer, but “The future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades…”

by vlad755 on Jul 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i hope too…we had no O vs pitt, colts and tenn.. we were dumbed down with our play calling in those games. i understand we were protecting flacco but did he improve in those games. i thought he was better in the first pitt game and got worse in the following pitt games. we also got more conservitive in those games.

by raven on Jul 11, 2009 9:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Flacco’s best game against Pitt was indeed the first one. We owned the 1st half and Flacco looked to be the one who could control our O against Pitt. If not for those 20 seconds of hell where they took the lead, I think greater things would have come to our team throughout the year.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Jul 12, 2009 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gee you thunk

a little credit could go to the Steelers defense, who shut EVERYBODY down for the most part?

aka 'Rexx'

by Bruce Raffel on Jul 12, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those Twenty Seconds

Were vintage Vinny/Scott Mitchell/Stoney Case/insert past pathetic Ravens QB here/

But as Bruce points out, the Steelers can make any QB look foolish; just like our defense :)

by vlad755 on Jul 13, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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