AFC North DT Debate
We have been debating who is the top Defensive Tackle in our division for some time now. Obviously, the consensus from Beatdown regulars is that Ngata is the top DT, followed by Rogers, and Hampton. I was on ESPN and saw James Walker was having the same debate, and after much campaigning by fans for each of the respective players, a consensus needed to be made. Being the logical man that he is, Walker went with Ngata, as the only DT who brings the total package, along with upside to his team. See below the jump for Walker's article.
"It was the debate that just wouldn't end last week. Who is the top interior defensive lineman in the AFC North: Casey Hampton, Haloti Ngata orShaun Rogers? What started as a simple question turned into a heated topic of discussion. The comment section for "Take your pick" and our AFC North inbox has been filling up since the question was first posed June 1. Everyone had very good points to make for these three stud defenders. Therefore, this week we decided to reopen this challenging debate. Here is an in-depth look at each player highlighted by an AFC North final say: Casey Hampton, Pittsburgh Steelers Case for: Hampton is the top run-stuffer for the NFL's most dominant defense. Playing nose in a 3-4 defense is extremely difficult because of the constant double teams. Yet "The Big Snack" has done it seamlessly and with ease for nine straight seasons. His two Super Bowl championships are accomplishments unmatched by his two counterparts and a testament to his dominance and consistency. Case against: Hampton, 31, is very one-dimensional. He's tremendous against the run but doesn't give you much in terms of pass rush. Hampton only has 5.5 sacks for his career. In fact, Hampton often is subbed on obvious passing situations and has become mostly a two-down player at this point in his career. Weight also has become an issue in recent years. Reader's take: Jim from Zanesville writes: James, it is clear the deepest group of defensive tackles reside in the AFC North. The only reason we can compare those 3 DTs is because they are in a 3-4. There is a big difference between a DT in a 3-4 and a 4-3 (askTank Johnson). That being said, I have to go with Hampton. With two rings and being the centerpiece of the best defense in the league last year, "Big Snack" is where it's at! Ngata is also a proven commodity, but he's not better than Hampton -- not yet. Rogers hasn't proven himself to me as a 3-4 NT. He is a great athlete no doubt, and we'll see more this year. But he's third on my list for now. Haloti Ngata, Baltimore Ravens Case for: Ngata is the most athletic and versatile of the group. He can play defensive tackle, defensive end and occasionally drops into coverage, as evidenced by his three career interceptions (two in 2008). Like Hampton and Rogers, Ngata is extremely hard to move off the line of scrimmage, but he's also athletic enough to avoid blockers chopping at his legs to stay active in plays. He's very durable and hasn't missed a start during his three-year career (48 straight games, 52 including playoffs). Case against: At 25, Ngata also is the youngest of the group. He hasn't fully reached his potential, and sometimes Ngata's competitive mean streak on the field can get the best of him. His tackle and sack numbers decreased in 2008 from the season before, even though Baltimore's overall defense improved. Reader's take: Bobby from Pittsburgh writes: I'm a die-hard Steelers fan. However, I think Ngata is the best DT in the AFC North. At 25, he has already been dominant on a dominating defense. I think Shaun Rogers had his last good year and will not be a force this year or in the future. Casey Hampton is also declining. Hampton may still finish with the best stats, two shiny Super Bowl rings and a dominant career. But Ngata is the better DT and his career is just beginning. Ngata hasn't hit his prime yet while the other two are past theirs. Shaun Rogers, Cleveland Browns Case for: Rogers had arguably the best season of any defensive lineman in 2008, recording 76 tackles and 4.5 sacks. Despite Cleveland's awful 4-12 record, Rogers made the Pro Bowl last season as an alternate, which carries a lot of weight because the coaches and players pick the reserves. When Rogers is inspired and motivated, which we saw last year, he is among the NFL's top defensive players at any position. Case against: The problem with Rogers always has been inconsistency. Hampton and even the younger Ngata have shown the ability to be consistently dominant week in and week out. Rogers doesn't have the same track record over his eight NFL seasons. Playing for mostly losing teams with the Detroit Lions could be one reason. But at the same time, it is puzzling that a player as good as Rogers failed to lift his team or defensive units to become more dominant. Reader's take: T.J. from Bedford, Ohio, writes: This take your pick question is pretty easy in my opinion. I may be biased towards Shaun Rogers being a Browns fan but numbers don't lie. Rogers dominates Hampton and Ngata statistically and he is the best defender on his team, with the same being arguable at best for Hampton and Ngata. Last year Rogers had linebacker-like numbers with 76 tackles, with 61 of those being solos. Hampton and Ngata combined for 77 tackles (Hampton 22, Ngata 55). Rogers also dominated in terms of sacks, with 4.5 being more than double what Hampton and Ngata had combined. Sorry Stiller and Ratbird fans but this is a question of best player, not the best defense. So it goes to Rogers by a landslide! AFC North final say James Walker: It's hard to go wrong with any of these three players. But the AFC North blog's pick for top interior defensive lineman in the division is Haloti Ngata, because of his youth, consistency, pure athleticism, upside, versatility and track record as a winner. Ngata is the only player who currently embodies all of these traits. Hampton is a consummate winner and an ideal nose tackle for a 3-4 defense. But he's 31 and a two-down player. Rogers dominated in 2008 and his stats were off the charts. But he's 30, inconsistent and has never played for a winning team. Ngata is the complete package with significantly less mileage, making the Raven the clear choice. As always, I appreciate everyone's participation. A special thanks goes to T.J. from Bedford, Ohio; Jim from Zanesville, Ohio; and Bobby from Pittsburgh. For future "Take your pick" or "Thought of the day" topics, feel free to send them to ourAFC North inbox." http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-3-39/Revisiting-Hampton--Ngata-and-Rogers.html
Casey Hampton
#98 DT
Pittsburgh Steelers
2008 STATS
TACK
SOLO
FF
INT
SACK
22
13
0
0
1.0
Haloti Ngata
#92 DT
Baltimore Ravens
2008 STATS
TACK
SOLO
FF
INT
SACK
55
43
0
2
1.0
Shaun Rogers
#92 DT
Cleveland Browns
2008 STATS
TACK
SOLO
FF
INT
SACK
76
61
0
0
4.5
0 recs |
39 comments
Comments
No doubt its Shaun Rodgers. He is the single best player to ever grace the game of football. In all seriousness at this point its Ngata.
by archon095 on Jun 14, 2009 9:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 on both parts
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 14, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m done arguing Ngata vs. Rogers because its getting old so I wont bring that argument into this post.
How is Hampton even in this conversation though?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 14, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could have easily won it without him. Leftwich has a superbowl ring, does that mean he should be in a conversation for the best QB?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just said it helps
And is part of the equation. Whether you want to accept it or not, players who play on winning teams have their status around the league enhanced to some extent.
I know it hard for a Browns fan to come to terms with, but you play to win the game.
by DT711 on Jun 15, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you are saying but I still dont think that everyone from a good team is good. Rex Grossman sucked and he was the bears QB in the superbowl.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not
But it has to be factored into any logical debate. How much weight it is given is fluid, depending on the players role, impact, leadership…
by DT711 on Jun 15, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dilfer
Is the epitome of sucked, but played for a championship team, and they won despite him…
But he was able to do something that even Marino, Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts et al could never do and that is steer a team to a championship.
by vlad755 on Jun 15, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Everyone knows that Dilfer didnt do shit and did nothing to steer the 2000 Ravens to their first Superbowl victory. Dilfer had the best defense of all time and we would have definitely won with Tony Banks at QB. The defense won us the superbowl that year. They ran the ball, passed the ball, hiked the ball and oh yea, played defense.
Radio could have been the QB of that team and won the superbowl. Every well educated football fan will tell you that Dilfer did not steer us to the superbowl. God, I thought you were smarter then this.
Sarcasm rules.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dilfer did suck. I dont see how you can say he didnt
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did way more then any other Browns QB in the last 20 years.
And in 11 games, he threw 2 tds and 1 int less then Flacco did last year. Dilfer was farrrrr from sucking. See, you are the average football fan that only thinks that a QB does not suck as long as he puts up crazy numbers every year. That offense went 5 freaking games straight without scoring a TD with Tony Banks at QB. Trent game in and lead the Ravens to a 12 game win streak and a super bowl victory.
It is not always about what you do in this league, its what you don’t do at times. Dilfer did not screw up enough for us to lose games, and a win is a win anyday. I still consider Trent Dilfer to be the best QB in Ravens history simply for the fact that he is the only QB to win a superbowl for us.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK i see what you’re saying but wasnt he cut after the superbowl?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
And I will even admit to this day that it was the worst decision made by the front office in Raven history.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way!
Dilfer road the wave to the title and even Billick knew that wouldn’t fly again. Grbac was coming ff a Pro Bowl year w/ over 4000 passing yards and was initially a great pickup. Remember we lost Jamal right away the next year and we STILL made the playoffs. Grbac’s arm made it so and there’s no way we come anywhere close w/ Dilfer. No one can be blamed for the fact tat he lost heart and his manhood.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 16, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Can’t fairly judge the season with Grbac. Our RB’s were a 56 year old Terry Allen and a 290lb Jason Brookins. We were doomed from the outset.
by DT711 on Jun 16, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Grbac STILL
“steered” us to the playoffs. Steered is the right word, because it wasn’t just our defense. His arm made throws that Dilfer only dreamed about.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 16, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm agreeing with that
If Dilfer would have had that RB situation, I’m not sure we even make the playoffs. Our offense would have been last in the league.
by DT711 on Jun 16, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holding Their Breath
It is no secret that the entire coaching staff, front office, defense, even the bathroom attendants at “PSI Net” stadium all held their collective breaths whenever the Ravens were in a third and long that year and Dilfer had to drop back to pass. Even the fans were putting on neck braces to prevent the strain from watching a (potential) pick-6 go the other way.
But he did just enough to win a championship so ya gotta give him credit for that.
I think you and I are saying the same thing/in agreement. But the Radio comment was funny…
by vlad755 on Jun 18, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actualy, I wanted Dilfer to hand it off
so we could just punt and have a chance to score on defense.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 18, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he didn't "suck"
He just wasn’t a classic SB QB, but he was what he needed t be that year and up until the SB, he was “good enough!”
Just like Dilfer.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 16, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grossman is just flat out awful.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 16, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m curious for whom Mr MaLoR actually voted.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 14, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Gregg
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 14, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All five votes for Rogers
from MaLoR
“Vote early and often”
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 15, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can only vote once
Even though I do have Rodgers’ poster on my wall and a fat head of him on my ceiling (It takes up the whole ceiling), I still had to go with my boy Ngata.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roger lead in tackles because all teams did in the second half was run! opponents had sizable leads by then… pitt and balt were in games to the end. : )
by raven on Jun 14, 2009 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i thought baby’s heads were supposed to round off a short time after delivery. rogers must of had to work through some real ham hocks on the way out.
by raven on Jun 14, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where's the Bengals' representative in this argument
Wait, do they have a DT? What about the guy with the ponytail I see at every Ravens home game lying on the ground not far from where he lined up every play?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 15, 2009 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shane Graham represents them
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to go with
Bengals DT#1, but decided not to.
by DT711 on Jun 15, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do they have anyone that plays t he 0-technique?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaun Rogers was about to eat Justin Hartwig last year but then the ref made him spit him back out.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 15, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My hair is not THAT long.
But good one. Looks like Ampallangs friday night
; )
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 15, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steeler fan
and i voted Ngata…….i also chose him for pro bowl the last two years in a row…
Kid can ball
Bleeding Black and Gold since 1989 baby, Blitzburgh is back, time for a repeat!
by Steeler_ on Jun 16, 2009 6:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, we’ve seen the Madden 10 ratings. The argument is done now
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 16, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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