Baltimore Ravens' All-Time Defense
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 1, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
59 comments
Coming off yesterday's posting of the Baltimore Ravens All-Time Offense, this is my feeble attempt to do the same thing with the Ravens vaunted defense over the years. This side of the ball is where the team has made its mark, so it is actually tougher as there are many more choices and qualified selections at most positions. Since these articles were written back-to-back, although posted on different days, I'm not too sure how much criticism I've already received for the offense, but the defense is sure to bring out the beasts in all of you. With that in mind, here's my picks:
DE: Michael McCrary: Dude had a non-stop motor and earned everything he got. (2nd team: Terrell Suggs)
DT: Haloti Ngata: While still young, this guy is the most disruptive force inside we've ever had. (2nd team: Sam Adams- sorry Goose)
OLB: Adalius Thomas: He could do so much all over the field and would have done even better if he'd have stayed in Baltimore. (2nd team: Peter Boulware- sorry Bart)
ILB: Ray: Just the first name will do fine, thank you very much. (2nd team: Edgerton Hartwell)
CB: Chris McAlister: As much as you love to hate him, he was as close to a shutdown corner as we've ever had, except against Cincinnati and Indianapolis. (2nd team: Samari Rolle- sorry Neon)
S: Ed: Once again, the guys from the "U" need no second name. (2nd team: Rod Woodson)
KR: Jermaine Lewis: Little man from Maryland could burn it up and the memory of him running down the sidelines in the Super Bowl with his finger pointing towards his son in heaven still gives me chills. (2nd team: Patrick Johnson)
That's my list, now make me look bad by bringing up names that I missed!
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Boulware
Have to go with him over AD. I don’t really think it is even close.
Also, I’d but Bart as the #2 ILB.
Cool post but shouldn’t you pick 11 guys for the first team, as that’s what would show up on the field?
by DT711 on Jun 1, 2009 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I would pick eleven players. My team would look like this:
LDE: Trevor Pryce
RDE: Michael McCrary
DT: Haloti Ngata (or Tony Siragusa)
ROLB: Terrel Suggs
RILB: Bart Scott
LILB: Ray Lewis
LOLB: Peter Boulware (or Adalius Thomas)
SS: Rod Woodson
FS: Ed Reed
RCB: Samari Rolle
LCB: Chris McAlister
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 1, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Solid
I like to see Pryce in there, a role player who does exactly what we need him to to free up the backers. Linebackers are spot on, Boulware was the man. I would throw Starks in for Rolle.
by BlazedTrail on Jun 1, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Starks
Rolle was an excellent cover corner before he got here. Starks feasted on guys avoiding throwing to McAlister’s side and was always beaten by the better WR’s.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Pretty Much Got it
I think I will go for a 4-3 alignment.
I like you secondary, except switch Starks for Rolle -just personal opinion on my part.
For LB’s, Ray on the inside, with the outside consisting of Boulware and Adalius Thomas.
For up front, McCrary (15 yard circuitous route and all), Ngata on the inside, Suggs at the other end (had to include him somehow in the eleven). I would round out the inside up front with a tough choice that comes down to Goose by a duckbill over “Buddy Lee” and Sam Admas. I really wish I could have worked Rob Burnett or Trevor Price into the mix.
by vlad755 on Jun 2, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. It’s funny that eight out of the eleven starters that I picked were on the 2006 defense (nine if you take Thomas over Boulware). I think that the 2006 defense is extremely underrated in the “All-Time Defense” department. That defense was special, and with Rex Ryan at coordinator, it was brutally unpredictable. The Steelers games were just fun to watch.
With the 13-3 record, the 2006 team was actually more successful in the regular season than the 2000 team. The problem with the 2006 team was that McNair choked in the playoffs… not to mention the offensive play-calling. One could actually argue that the 2006 defense was better than the 2000 defense. Obviously, most fans hold the 2000 defense in high regard… for good reason. Ray Lewis was absolutely unblockable and unstoppable in the 2000 season, and his abilities were much stronger in that year. However, with Reed, Thomas, Scott, Suggs and Ngata, the 2006 defense might have an edge at the other positions. As a whole, it may have been better.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 2, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I think one can make a very valid argument about ‘06 defense vice ’00 defense. Except that ’06 could not grab the ring. If they had, and honestly they should have (we loose to the Dolts 15-6 and then they go on to win it all??? C’mon, I do not believe for a second the Patsies hang a 34 spot on that defense like they did the Dolts in the AFC Championship game and I also believe we crush da bears in the SuperBowl -arguably an even bigger blowout that what we laid on the Giants…
If ’06 had won it all, what a great debate that would be: ’00 vs. ’06 defenses…
by vlad755 on Jun 2, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jamie Sharper anyone?
And Haloti hasn’t done it for long enough, sorry i gotta go with Sam! Duane Starks anyone? Maybe i’m his biggest fan or something. lol
And i’m not sure about you guys but i would never honor Rod Woodson with a spot on the All-Ravens Defense! He has always claimed the Squeelers! Sorry but thats not cool w/me fellas! I’d rather put Jim Leonard in that spot cause lets face it, he was a playmaker!
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 1, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sharper
Can’t be on this list. He was never more then the third best LB on the squad when he was here. Granted he played with Ray and Boulware, but he undoubtedly looked better due to their presence. Maybe an honorable Mention?
And Haloti hasn’t done it for long enough, sorry i gotta go with Sam!
Uh, might want to check your facts man. Haloti has already played more games then Adams ever did for us.
Jim Leonard in that spot cause lets face it, he was a playmaker!
I really hope that is a joke.
by DT711 on Jun 1, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope! Not a joke on Jim!
I will absolutely not nominate a player that has NEVER acknowledged the Ravens. All he does is bend over for Pittsburgh. And name on better, Dawan? Herring?
And you my friend have a short memory because Sam Adams along with Ray, P. Boulware, D.Starks, Goose, and M. Mccrary made that Defense the Greatest of All-Time! Haloti hasn’t even been to the Pro Bowl! Come on kid, this isn’t the “potential” all Ravens Defense! If so, i think Joe would be in as QB!
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 1, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your changing your argument
And Haloti hasn’t done it for long enough, sorry i gotta go with Sam!
You said Haloti hadn’t done it enough and I had facts to disprove this, since he has played more then Adams as a Raven.
And you my friend have a short memory because Sam Adams along with Ray, P. Boulware, D.Starks, Goose, and M. Mccrary made that Defense the Greatest of All-Time! Haloti hasn’t even been to the Pro Bowl!
Now you say its because they went to the SB and had an all time D. That is irrelevant to your initial argument and my response in regards to time as a Raven.
Come on kid, this isn’t the "potential" all Ravens Defense! If so, i think Joe would be in as QB!
I am not a kid, and would rather you not refer to me as such.
Nope! Not a joke on Jim!
I will absolutely not nominate a player that has NEVER acknowledged the Ravens. All he does is bend over for Pittsburgh. And name on better, Dawan? Herring?
Who cares if he acknowledges the Ravens, that is not part of the criteria. And yes, I would easily put Dawan or Herring above Jim. He barely played half a season for us as a starter. What about your initial contention that Ngata has not done it enough? But somehow Jim has?
I have no problem with a healthy debate but if you present facts and I disprove them you can’t change your argument all of the sudden, without acknowledging facts. It makes you look like the kid.
by DT711 on Jun 2, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 DT7
Based on single season numbers even Demps would go ahead of Leonhard.
Leonhard had a great season, high character guy with alot of heart, but he does not belong on the list..
Ngata has not only played more games for the Ravens, but has also put up better numbers than Adams.
Also agree that Terp’s logic is a bit off, must be that cheap college park beer…
by adh on Jun 2, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leonhard? Puh-lease!
He was a fill in that wouldn’t have had much PT if Landry hadn’t gotten hurt. Watch how little he does w/ the Jets. I’d put Reed, Woodson and Herring above Leonhard w/o batting an eyelash and if prompted would take Haruki over him as well.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad on the kid thing,
i didn’t realize that would offend you. Maybe bro? no you’re not my “bro” either right? How about man? Are you man? Dude? G? Not a Gangster? Whatever suits you because the last thing i want to do is offend you? :-( lol
But seriously, if you want a Steeler Faithful on your all time team, then take him! But i wont acknowledge him until he acknowledges the city of Baltimore!
And i wasn’t trying to make the argument that Sam Adams was a Raven longer than Haloti. I was simply saying that Haloti hasn’t had the career that Sam had! ie he hasn’t been to a Pro Bowl yet! The Ravens have had too many Great DT’s for a 2 year player to make the list without a Pro Bowl!
And about Jim, it wasn’t as much a joke as it was sarcasm. I was saying i would put Jim in before i put Rod Woodson just because HE’S A STEELER! Go back and read it.
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 2, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word of the day.... Non Sequitor
And i wasn’t trying to make the argument that Sam Adams was a Raven longer than Haloti. I was simply saying that Haloti hasn’t had the career that Sam had!
And Haloti hasn’t done it for long enough, sorry i gotta go with Sam!
Might want to include that in your initial argument. It’s hard to have a discussion when you consistently change your reasoning.
The Ravens have had too many Great DT’s for a 2 year player to make the list without a Pro Bowl!
Haloti is going into his 4th year. Pro Bowl is by name recognition, not talent. Haloti was clearly good enough to be a pro bowler last year. That is meaningless.
But seriously, if you want a Steeler Faithful on your all time team, then take him! But i wont acknowledge him until he acknowledges the city of Baltimore!
Huh? How is that relevant to the conversation? Do you want him to move to Baltimore? He did play in Pitt for the majority of his career.
And you my friend have a short memory because Sam Adams along with Ray, P. Boulware, D.Starks, Goose, and M. Mccrary made that Defense the Greatest of All-Time!
Somehow Rod Woodson is exempt from this list?
And about Jim, it wasn’t as much a joke as it was sarcasm. I was saying i would put Jim in before i put Rod Woodson just because HE’S A STEELER! Go back and read it.
Nope! Not a joke on Jim!
I can read just fine. I have already refuted this point and you have flip flopped more then once. Why not Landry or Herring then? Please try to make sense.
i didn’t realize that would offend you. Maybe bro? no you’re not my "bro" either right? How about man? Are you man? Dude? G? Not a Gangster? Whatever suits you because the last thing i want to do is offend you? :-( lol
Sir will do just fine! Your pretty funny!!! Laughs everywhere!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!! : )!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by DT711 on Jun 3, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Landry or Herring are fine by me.
But you’re still not getting my point, my point was as far as i’m concerned Jim is higher on my list and more desrving just because he hasn’t publically downed the Ravens. And i probably should’ve made this statement in the original post, sorry about that.
But still my good “Sir,” Haloti is not deserving just yet. Again, he has played three years in the NFL. There’s no way he jumps Sam Adams, Kelly Gregg or the Goose! My personal opinion? Haloti has to belly-flop onto a QB in a meaningful playoff game as he lays on the ground so innocently to jump the Goose! lol
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 3, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fear...
…you are definitely flip flopping. While Goose was a great guy, he spent more time on the Colts and earned his rep long before he came to us. So did Woodson and Derrick Mason, Samari Rolle and Steve McNair for that matter. What they did before or after they were Ravens is irrelevant to THIS list, although not necessarily yours.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The “All-Time Defense” refers to the most talented players that have played defense for the Ravens. It’s not suppose to include the number of years played, the amount of Pro Bowls made or the other teams played for. It’s about talent… plain and simple. My vote is for Rod Woodson. He’s the second-best safety in Ravens history. Furthermore, I think that he acknowledges the Ravens often enough. He’s my favorite commentator on the NFL network.
My vote is also for Ngata over Adams. Not only that… I would take Siragusa over Adams. Ngata versus Siragusa is a toss-up at this point in Ngata’s career, but if I had to pick one for the long-run, it would be Ngata. Ngata versus Adams is a no-brainer… I’d obviously take Ngata. Adams was big and used his enormous size to stuff the run. Ngata can stop the run just as well with his strength and athleticism. Ngata is MUCH more versatile, and I believe that he is just starting to scratch the surface if his potential. He will make the Pro Bowl many times.
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 4, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Jamie Sharper Story
I ever heard about was during a game when Jamie just cleaned someone’s clock, he helps them up off the turf and yells at them, “Jesus loves you, man!” -not sure if Jamie had a religious bent or was just trying to get into his opponents head or what…
by vlad755 on Jun 2, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, Jamie Sharper
brought the rain! He was a Freak! Maybe it was the fact that there were 6 future HoF’ers around him but i’ve always thought he never got the respect he deserved. But Peter Boulware was a Raven much longer and put up better numbers so he would definitely have to be ahead of Jamie!
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 2, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sharper
best hit in the Super Bowl!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good list
Your list is good in my book. Ngata was a shocker at first. The more i thought about it, the better it sounded. Too bad there is no room for Kelly Gregg. He should be an Honorable Mention.
by Ngata 92 on Jun 1, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Greg could be 1st team
Between him and sam adams imo.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 1, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way Adalius Thomas makes it before Peter Boulware. I know he can do so much on the field, but Boulware was an animal on the field also and did what he did best. 58 all day!
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 1, 2009 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cory Ivey
How come nobody mentioned Cory Ivey???
by Ngata 92 on Jun 1, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I could go with Sharper up there as maybe a 2nd team..
Just because that Ravens defense was soo amazing that I could see all the 2000 starters up there. And the fact that Sharper had that huge fumble return for us in the playoffs that season rings in my mind.You HAve to give it to Goose and Adams man, they made Ray Lewis that much more unbelievable with their ability to absorb so many blockers. Adalius was THE BEST OLB the Ravens have ever seen and was our defensive MVP in some of the seasons Ray Lewis went down for an extended period of time. Great pick!
by ravsagain on Jun 1, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No bites on the Corey Ivey comment. I thought that would fire somebody up.
by Ngata 92 on Jun 1, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He is a hybrid LB/DE
Really could go either way
by DT711 on Jun 2, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a big mccrary fan. he had a good motor but frequently took a 15 yard hook route to the qb leaving his side open. he had to go around. he might steal the #1 spot but i think MM gave as much as he got.
where should rob burnett go? he had a few geat years and made some huge plays in big games.
by raven on Jun 2, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boulware was as ,usha force as anyone early on before injuries got him. those were incredible years with ray and peter growing together.
by raven on Jun 2, 2009 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
boulware was as “much a force” (above-sorry)
by raven on Jun 2, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Besides, ....
Boulware played a bunch of his career with one arm!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baltimore Fan!
I’m a Ravens fan. Been one since their inception. But before that I was (and still am) a BALTIMORE COLT fan. You’ve listed a damn good team here. But I’ll take the 58/59 BALTIMORE COLTS and beat you nine out of ten.
by jimwarren on Jun 2, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha! Players are bigger, stronger, and faster than they were back then, especially the ones hand picked by Ozzie.
by BlazedTrail on Jun 2, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you much BlazedTrail!
Jimwarren your boys from “58/59 B-more Colts” would be committing suicide if they stepped onto the field today with todays athletes! LOL
What were there DT’s like 200 lbs?! You better bring the practice squad cause there’s no way in Hell that the starters make it through that game. . . . . oh, and bring a RB for every play because Ray will be eating men!
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 2, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artie Donovan would have been a safety's size if he played now!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats incredible!
But Arthur was a marine, so he could possibly be competetive today lol but he wouldnt make 5 strait pro-bowls. You can bet that!
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 5, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Letterman's #1 guest
in terms of number of appearances! Bet you didn’t know THAT stat!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 6, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BlazedTrail and FEARtheTERP
It’s a shame that we will never know who is better. I will give you that players are bigger, faster and more athletic now. But, that said, most, not all, of todays guys don’t have the fire or heart that those guys had. Johnny U breaks gets his nose broken, refuses to come out of the game, packs it with mud to stop the bleeding and throws the winning TD pass. Artie plays with a broken leg. Weeb tell him to just stand there and grab the first person that runs by. I could go on and on. Don’t get me wrong. I love the Ravens. But take a cold, windy, wet day in January. Meet in a muddy field and I’ll still beat you. Love to read you guys comments. I just wish that you all could av know what it was like when the Colts ruled Baltimore.
by jimwarren on Jun 3, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you're right jimwarren
but just the fact that guys are double the size kind of sways me a little, not to mention they’ve been working out since middle school. lol I’ve heard many stories about the Colts, believe me! And i’m proud of who they were but i’m a Baltimore fan, i dont care if its the O’s, Blast, Ravens, or Bullets…..or Michael Phelps.
Anyways, todays players would just run go routes the whole game and run by them like they were standing still. It would be ugly. And dont for one second believe that there aren’t players with heart today. Because maybe getting hit by machines with flesh that weigh 340 lbs and bench 550 pounds has something to do with it! Injuries may be a l.i.t.t.l.e. more serious these days…..just a little.
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 3, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides the 1968 Baltimore Colts
set the record for points allowed in a 14 game season w/ 140. They might have been up there with best single season teams ever (13-1) if they had destroyed the Jets, which they should have being 17 point favorites before falling 16-7.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t compare the two folks…Guys were that size simply because that was the going size. if they had to hit the weight room year round and pound supplements they probably would have. they probably wouldn’t have hit the roids like todays atheletes becuase the $5,000 a years contracts wouldn’t have been worth kidney failure like these guys think $2,000,000 is. you had the same talent and speed back then. the guys just didn’t have the good equipment, heated fields, astro turf, anything goes tackling, team nutritionists….i would take the ’58 colts over a lot of teams now. those guys were naturally strong. farm boy strong. that type of conditioning on a hot day will clobber any air conditioned gym rat.
by raven on Jun 3, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
58 Colts today >>>> 2008 Detroit Lions.
by archon095 on Jun 3, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
70’s Steelers today >>>>> Dead from cheating
http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2006/07/curtain_for_the.html
by adh on Jun 3, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fail to understand how using substances that were legal is cheating. Now i realize as a Raven fan you have little to no clue what the NFL was like before 1996 but please explain your endless wisdom.
by archon095 on Jun 4, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, that's the best you got??
archon095 today >>>> fails to think of a comeback
c’mon man, I’ll give you another shot. I know it’s tough, but try to lighten up and play along..
Here I’ll even give you one:
Steelers today>>>>6 SB rings
I am sure you can think of at least one more….right??
by adh on Jun 4, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look man
if you want to debate steroids that’s cool with me. I kinda liked the format you started with the “then>>>now”, could have been entertaining…,but OK steroids it is..
Definition:
“Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one’s own interest, and often at the expense of others”
Notice there is no reference to a illegal advantage, just simply an “unfair advantage”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating#cite_note-0
“It started, really, in Pittsburgh. They got an advantage on a lot of football teams. They were so much stronger (in the) ’70s, late ’70s, early ’80s,” Haslett said Wednesday. “They’re the ones who kind of started it.”
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/8322840
I think the circumstances behind the multiple deaths of Steeler’s players from that era bring merit to Haslett’s statement. What other teams have seen such premature mortality in high numbers? How can anyone ignore that?
It has been discussed that Jack Lambert adamantly refused the stuff, which I believe 100%. He knew that it was cheating, he knew it was a shortcut, and he probably knew it would kill him. Though if he had used steroids I bet his teeth would have probably grown back. My point is that all these guys knew it was wrong, an unfair advantage, but unlike Jack, many of them used it anyway, and that is cheating…
by adh on Jun 4, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow! The Steelers were trash in the 70’s. How is this not more publicized?
by BAL_Hawk on Jun 4, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their fan base is still trash today.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on Jun 5, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Lambert was juicing
he would have been a lot heavier than his 215 pound playing weight for a MLB, small by even those day’s standards. Hate the Steelers but loved Lambert’s toothy grin!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 5, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should've just played
with his helmet off, then he’d have more of an excuse to be so ugly! That guy looks like the deformed men from ‘The Hills Have Eyes!’
by FEARtheTERP1 on Jun 5, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
totally explains how rocky bliar played on 1/2 a foot and bradshaw lost his hair at 21/went nuts.
by raven on Jun 5, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought Blier
had a bullet lodged in his gut or something like that. He was a soldier so you had to respect him.
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 6, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lamont Brightful is the best ever……..
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Jun 5, 2009 8:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
= BJ Sams
With Chris Carr and Ladarius Webb, etc., both are history!
Bruce Raffel
by Bruce Raffel on Jun 6, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember when billick put ismail in for punts and blew up his knee when ismail was our only receiving threat.
by raven on Jun 9, 2009 12:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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