End of the Troy Smith "era?"
by Rexx on May 3, 2009 11:32 AM EDT
88 comments
With the reported signing of former Miami Dolphins QB John Beck, does this spell the end of Ravens QB Troy Smith's time in Baltimore? Smith has been a backup to both former Ravens and now St. Louis Ram Kyle Boller, and recently as backup to current starter Joe Flacco. Smith had a chance to start in 2007 and was thought to have the edge in starting in 2008, but the combination of illness and Flacco's amazing progress relegated him to the backup position once again. He did get in a bunch of games, and even threw a nice pass that Flacco caught on the run in the Oakland game. However, most of his appearances were in the Ravens "Suggs Package" and many ended with a frustrating timeout or basic run/handoff.
Now that the Ravens have brought in Beck, this does not bode well for Smith's future as a Raven, or at least 2nd string status. Beck was a project and favorite of former Dolphins head coach and now Ravens offensive coordinator, Cam Cameron, and should be given every opportunity to unseat Smith as second string QB. Beck was a high draft choice and thought to be the future QB of the Dolphins. However, the signing of free agent Chad Pennington last year, plus the drafting of former Michigan QB Chad Henne, much less this year's draft pick of former West Virginia QB, Pat White, all sealed Beck's demise in Miami.
Smith, a former Heisman Trophy winner at THE Ohio State University, was an afterthought as a 5th round draft pick by the Ravens in 2007. Despite his small stature and questionable NFL QB tools, Smith intrigued the Ravens and especially their fans, as he brought a sense of excitement to the field every time he stepped on it. At the same time, he never really had a chance to prove if he was able to overcome his so-called height issues and has been a valuable backup and "secret weapon" since Cameron became offensive coordinator.
This figured to continue and even expand in 2009 prior to the announcement of the Beck signing. While Beck possesses better pure passing skills, Smith brings a versatile option to the reserve QB role that Beck cannot compare with. Perhaps there will be room for both of them on the 53 man roster. Putting one of them on the Practice Squad would surely make them very attractive and easily accessible to any team that wanted to pluck them from our roster (Cleveland?).
The signing of undrafted free agent QB Drew Willy of Buffalo also puts another kink in the chain of events. Willy is a fine young QB, and even ESPN's Mel Kiper projected him to be the "next Tom Brady." There's no way the Ravens keep four QB' on their roster and the fact that Smith is a free agent after this season could very well mean that the Ravens have no intention of paying him the bucks he might want just to be a secret weapon and backup QB. A lot of other teams might just be interested in seeing what variables he could be to their offense (Cleveland?). Baltimore already knows but might not be willing in paying him what it might take to retain his services beyond 2009.
This could get interesting. Stay tuned.
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5 QBS??
Well, Willy most likely stands no chance now. I think this move was done to just create competition. Troy is definitely the right man for the back-up role, and I can not see Beck just coming in here and doing THAT much better then Troy in training camp and pre-season.
Signing Beck is just going to increase the level of competition and effort in training camp for Troy, Bouman, Willy and even Joe. This is going to make everyone work harder.
I just do not see Troy or Todd losing their jobs.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 3, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Beck will be the backup
He will be the long term backup. Like Sorgi for Peyton Manning. Someone that understand his role and is confortable with that…
Also Cam knows him, and I think he is better than what shows in Miami…
I think we now can trade Troy even for a 6 round pick or another role/backup player.
THE MEXICAN RAVEN
by JORGE NITALES on May 3, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Troy isn't going anywhere
When Training camp role’s around, Beck will be cut and troy will remain the back up. Troy brings to much Versatility to our offense. He can run, throw, and may be able to catch. He will go into this season as the number 2 QB behind Flacco and we whall see more of the suggs packages this year.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on May 3, 2009 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand this man-love for Troy Smith. Most of the time he came into the game to add “versatility to our offense,” we ended up calling a time out because the offense didn’t know what was going on. Keeping him around for a gimmick play we might use once ever couple of games doesn’t make sense. Also, I haven’t seen anything to make me think for sure that he can beat out Beck for the backup spot. He never looked great in any pre-season games, and — as I said in another fan post — his stats from the 2007 season (after having the majority of the season to learn the offense) were mediocre. Other than “Suggs likes him,” where is the justification?
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 3, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I'm going to be that guy...
“Smith, a former Heisman Trophy winner at (…)”
He is still and will always be a Heisman Trophy winner.
by tvon on May 3, 2009 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
SMITH
If he cant play the QB he should go to the gym and bulk up… then he should switch to RB or WR… he could be great at one of those positions and it would help to the ravens after letting Nicks go to the damn Giants… but i look forward to the return of the best life saver in madden and on the field D.Williams… he should be a great target for Joe… Ravens its our time come on we can do it..
by Sly1stRoundDP on May 3, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Williams is a beast in Madden
I would put Figurs at the #3 spot when I play and put Williams at the 4 spot, run shotgun offense and Williams would get paired up with the other Team’s 4th CB or sometimes LB. Every game I would play, Williams would have 4 catches for 175 yards and 2 TD’s. Play action every time.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 3, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and in Madden Vick is the greatest QB ever. The problem is Madden is completely unrealistic.
by archon095 on May 3, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can dream big
Can’t we?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 3, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you dreaming about the Ravens picking up Vick when he finally becomes a full-fledged citizen again?
Best Wildcat Offense Ever!!!
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 3, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
troy smith
the problem with troy smith is that he still thinks he should be the #1 QB. From the things I have heard on the various stations and blogs, troy has a huge ego. As a 5th round pick his contract ends this year. I expect that Bouman will be gone before the season starts. We’ll very likely keep 3 QB’s which means only one kicker (Gano?) Troy wants an opportunity to start somewhere. Problem for him is that he thinks he is better than most NFL personnel men give him credit for. The Ravens were very high on Beck a couple of years ago. He would likely have been their choice if he was available in the second round. My guess is that he supplants troy as the backup late this year or after this year. Fine by me. I never understood this man-love for smith. His arm is strong but is not accurate at all. He is short and has never been noted to be a great read the defense QB. Heisman trophies don’t mean anything in the NFL. I like Troy, but won’t miss him if he’s gone. Beck has a much higher upside as a QB in the NFL. Arm isn’t as strong, but he reads defenses well (supposedly) and he is a very accurate QB.
by ppdoc on May 3, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Few things ppdoc
Just my opinion, but I do not think you should be listening to what those people on stations and blogs have said about Troy. I am sure he has a ego, but has it in any way hurt this team since he has been here? I do not think so. It is not in any way a bad thing for a QB to think that he should be the starter. All these guys want to start in the NFL and it only makes Troy work harder to prove that he is a very reliable #2 guy and could step up big time for us if god forbid anything was to ever happen to Joe.
I think that Troy is a very, very gifted QB. The scrambling persona that is placed on a lot of these mobile QB’s like Troy usually makes people second guess their abilities. People always think that these type of QB’s like Troy do not have the best pocket passing abilities to make the right throws because they will scramble often when in a particularly bad situation. Not saying you our others are necessarily wrong about this, but we really have not seen ENOUGH to say that he cannot make it in the NFL. Then again, we also have not seen ENOUGH to say he can make it, so I understand where you come from.
If not for that National Championship game against Florida, Troy would have been a first day pick, no doubt. People are down on him mostly because of this game, but I feel they are wrong for doing it.
As for Beck, I would not be surprised if he is placed on practice squad. As much as Cam likes Beck because he coached him his only year at Miami, Troy already understands this offense and his role in playing in it. With Bouman, I do not think he gets cut. The Ravens just re-signed him to a 1 year deal, so it would not make much sense to get rid of him like that. Even though he has not had the career that most would like, he has been in this league for 10 years and has seen things Joe and the others have not seen yet. Just having a veteran like Todd on the team helps the younger guys. Joe, Troy and Kyle even said so themselves that Bouman really helped them last year.
Here is my take on the Beck signing. I think that he was brought in here to really up the level of play of Troy, Todd, the new guy Drew Willy and even Joe Flacco. Beck is a very solid QB that could indeed bring something special to this offense, but so do the others. This will only make Troy work that much harder to earn the #2 role, and that is great.
If Beck beats out Troy Smith or even Todd Bouman for the sole back-up spot, so be it. It means that he is very good and qualified to earn that spot. Ozzie does not let talent get away too easily, and when a former 2nd round pick and very young QB is out there, why not bring him in and give him a shot. Anyway that we can improve our football team is great.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 3, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say Beck wil be the backup
as he is more of an all around QB than Smith, who is best out of the “Wildcat/Suggs” but has not had any real long term experience as a full time QB, while Beck has a bit. Here’s thinking that Beck is the backup but Smith stays around for the unusual work unless he opts for free agency after this season. The Ravens will try to stash Willy on their Practice Squad and won’t show him off too much this year so no one (Cleveland?) grabs him. Then Smith leaves, with Beck as a very capable backup and Willy as insurance.
Works for me. You?
Rexx
by Rexx on May 3, 2009 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unless the Cleveland front office does all their scouting at the Beatdown, you have a pretty good plan, Rexx. If Smith ends up showing us something this year, though, I’m all for him sticking around as backup; he’s been with the organization several years now and deserves a shot; however, he has yet to show us anything other than mediocrity, and that’s why I’m so confused about the man-crush several people around here have on him. What are they seeing that I’m not?
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 3, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
Beck has not shown us anything more then “mediocrity.” He is 1-3 as a starter and has a 60.2 QB rating.
Right now, Troy is the #2. Beck, Todd and even Drew Willy will have to show everyone they can play the back-up.
We have to remember that Troy was going to be the starter heading into last season. If not for his terrible sickness, he would have played 3 quarters or so in the last 2 pre-season games and really would have not allowed everyone to see everything Joe or Kyle could bring to the table. So the coaches definitely saw something in Troy that they liked, and I think we should all be happy to have a unique QB like him on our team.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 3, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1-3 as a starter on a team that went 1-15. That roster was hurting for talent, even last year when they made the playoffs largely on tom brady being injured and the bills collapsing after the first month of the season.
by ello on May 3, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
I’m still not sold on Beck’s talent as a QB but he’s being brought to camp to provide more competition at the backup QB position. If he proves himself more than Smith, so be it. Wildcat/suggs is a fad anyway and doesn’t work against good defenses.
by ello on May 3, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the source of your Troy man-love is that Beck hasn’t been impressive in the NFL? As I recall, Smith was slated to become the starter for 2008 because none of the three QB’s we had on roster had been very impressive in the pre-season at all. In that light, that makes him the smartest kid on the short bus. I’m still waiting for an explanation for this Troy Smith man-crush.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 3, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
Yea, I thought I layed it our for malor that Troy was the lesser of three evils going into the preseason last year. Wow, he was the front runner to start against the amazing competition of a Div 1-AA rookie from Delaware and the immortal Kyle Boller.
I think its time to drop the “Well, Troy would have started for us if he didn’t get sick” line, because you know what? He did get sick and he didn’t start. So it means nothing. Get over it. (Obviously this part not directed at you Ampallang)
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does not work for me, yet.
I think that right now, Troy has earned the #2 spot. The coaches think so, and so do the players. Bringing Beck in will only make Troy work harder to prove to the coaches, players, and fans that he can step up if needed.
I think what Troy brings to the offense is special. His style is very hard for defenses to evaluate quickly and he does have a very good arm. I think Beck gets put on practice squad, IMO.
Great move by Ozzie though. Why let talent like Beck sit around and be picked up by another team so that it could possibly hurt us later on down the road? I am sure there are other teams out there who could definitely use Beck more then we could, but it is smart to now allow that.
If he beats out Troy, so be it. It means he brought more to the table and earned the spot 100% for someone who is not familiar with the Ravens system. He may be familiar with Cam’s offense, but our style and the style of football played in Miami when Cam and John Beck were together is very different in many areas. Whatever happens, happens and this is indeed a very smart move.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 3, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree whole-heartedly.
I don’t understand the John Beck band wagon. I’m guessing that it’s because Beck was a second round pick and Troy Smith was only a fifth round pick. Don’t get me wrong… I like the signing of Beck. It was a good move, but I would not crown him yet. There are many different ways that you could look at this. Both Beck and Smith have started four games, and their records in those games were both 1-3. However, Beck was unimpressive with a 62.0 rating. Smith did better with a 79.5 rating. More importantly, Beck was 1-3 in the touchdown-interception ratio. Smith was 2-0… No interceptions. Obviously, they played on different teams. So the statistics comparison cannot be taken too far.
Another way to look at it… Troy was in line for the starting job last season. In fact, he had all but won the job. If it had not been for the illness, Troy may have started all season. No one can say how he would have performed. I’m sure that he wouldn’t have been as good as Flacco, but that isn’t the point. The point is that the entire team was behind Smith, and that says something about his character. Personally, I think that Troy is a winner. Before he fell ill last season, I remember hearing several coaches and teammates praising Troy’s leadership. People would bring up the “it” factor when talking about him. I definitely have not heard the same thing about Beck. If anything, I’ve heard the opposite.
I think that Troy could be a good starter somewhere. That’s another reason that I like this move. Troy may not want to sign an extension with the Ravens. I think that he’s going to want to compete for a starting job somewhere, and a team may give him that opportunity. In that case, I think that Beck would make an excellent long-term backup for Flacco, and ultimately, I think that this is what he was brought here for.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
But, some here are going to come back and say, “You are basing your assumptions about Troy off of 4 games?!?” And they wont even take into consideration that Beck has only started 4 games and put up worse numbers.
I am still shocked at the amount of Troy Smith doubters and haters out there. What the hell has the guy really done?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beck...
is like a new toy. All new and shiny and… NEW! That has to mean he’s an improvement! Right?
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
What if Kevin Kolb were a FA for some odd reason and Ozzie signed him. Wouldn’t everyone be bitching about how bad he is because of the game he had against us?
Wait, was John Beck’s only win in his 4 games as a starter against us? If so, I guess that makes him the greatest thing since sliced bread.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not crowning Beck
But I’m saying healthy competition is a good thing and I think Beck may have more long term value as a #2 then Smith long term.
Let them battle and let the chips fall as they may.
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All for it
I stated earlier that if Beck can beat out the other 3 guys we have here for the #2 spot, then good for him. He obviously would have wowed the coaches and team with his abilities and definitely earned the role.
Whatever happens, happens. And it can only be better for the team, right?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree. The competition can only make the team better. I just think that Troy is the better QB right now.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually agree with that
Beck has shown nothing, but I’m hoping there was a reason he was a second round pick.
Either way, who doesn’t love a good training camp battle?
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man.
I can’t wait. The QB competition is one storyline that I’m looking forward too. I also want to see the MLB competition between Gooden and McClain.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is McClain
being considered to start on the inside? I had kind of assumed he was an edge LB/DE in our system. I see big things for him either way.
You know Troy is in the gym this morning working his ass off to beat out Beck. Hope Johnny boy is ready for a battle, because we all know that one thing Troy Smith is, is a competitor, and I have no doubt he is going to bring it.
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McClain wont be competing for the ILB job I don't think.
He is a edge rusher like you said. A Suggs mold type of player. I think the spot is basically Gooden’s to lose.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Gooden is the front runner, but I don’t see them handing it to him.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yea for sure
The coaches dont give anything to anyone right away. Even veterans on the team I am sure have to show the coaches that they can still play their position at a high level.
I remember after the game we played at Cleveland and Ray Rice had that huge 160 yard game, the coaches talked about how well Rice did in practice the whole week prior to the game. He must have earned that starting spot over Willis and LeRon, cause the little guy tore it up.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
I’m pretty sure that McClain is in the mix to start inside… although I’m not positive. I’ve heard Michael Lombardi talk about McClain competing with Gooden. That’s basically where I got it from.
I love your new profile picture, by the way.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
I think we need to start the Ngata for Pro Bowl campaign early this year. Seriously, since we get looks from Sports Illustrated now, why not spearhead the movement and see if we can get the big guy the pub and recognition he deserves.
I truly believe that he will be known as the best DT in the game after this season. No one else can bring the total package that he does.
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that Cleo Lemon was the Dolphins starter when they beat us…
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure.
If anyone can tell me, please do.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
It was Cleo Lemon. He threw for 315 yards and a touchdown. Beck didn’t make a single passing attempt.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
troy won the job?
hold on a second. i followed the reports out of training camp as closely as anyone. Troy Smith was underwhelming in training camp. So was Kyle and frankly so was Flacco although he was given less of the work than the other two.
There seems to be this impression that Troy had won the competition hands down and his illness was a major monkey wrench in the plan. The truth of the matter was that the coaching staff did not want to start Flacco and was praying that Smith would pull the job from Boller. They gave him every opportunity to do so and frankly he was underwhelming everyone but they really did not want to start Flacco so they were going to settle on Smith. Lets not make it appear like he was leaps and bounds the best QB in camp because he wasn’t and if you listen to WNST camp reports, it was obvious that Cam Cameron wasn’t overwhelmed with his ability to pick up the offense.
by ppdoc on May 4, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I HATE NASTY NESTOR APIRICIO!
God damnit, you actually listen to that fool?
I mean, it only seemed logical for the coaches to start Troy last year. Kyle was given enough shots in his career to get it done, couldn’t. (Although I credit alot of his poor play to Billick’s shitty system and see Kyle doing just fine in STL) or start a rookie in the first game. We all saw how that went with Kyle. So they wanted to go with a new face, yet someone who has experience. Kyle has experience, but we are all tired of his face. Joe is a new face, but had no experience. So they went with Troy, who played in some games, did pretty well considering he did not throw an interception, and was doing very good in training camp.
I went to nearly all the training camps last year and got to see what the man could do. He ran the 1st team offense more then Kyle or Joe and looked damn good doing it. I just think we are so happy with Joe, we do not want to admit that we were this close to having him not start for us last year.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
followup
i’m not a huge fan of Nestor, but the morning show is the best in town. Your opinion that he looked good running the 1st team offense is your own. But listening to Aaron Wilson, KC Willett, Jamison Hensley they really didn’t agree with your assessment.
Look – at this time its a moot point. Joe Flacco is the QB for now and hopefully the next 10 years or so. If Troy beats out John Beck because he is a better QB its fine by me. I want good competition. My point is that I would not be surprised to see Beck as the #2 by the end of next year and Troy will be gone as a FA because they’re not going to commit any money to him and he wants a chance to start. Personally I think he will never be anything but an average backup in the NFL, but that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. Anyone coming into Bmore at this time better be prepared to grab a clipboard and get splinters in the ass, because Flacco is the man for the foreseeable future barring major injury (G-d forbid.)
by ppdoc on May 4, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes sir
Oh yea, I hate the Baltimore Sun to if you didn’t know. So screw Hensley, he picked us to lose multiple games last year against scrub teams that we beat. I do not like that stuff. 16-0 till I die.
But yes, it is a little strange isn’t it that we are having these well thought out arguments over who is the #1 guy to sit on the bench. But that is how much of a Troy Smith fan I am.
And Rexx told me to have a 3 way with Heyward-Bey and Troy Smith. Gross
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wha?
Make it a four-way- add that Helmat guy!
Hensley alwasy picks rthe Ravens to win or lose by close scores, gee way to go out on a limb! The Sun sucks and is just a Ravens bashing paper. Aaron Wilson is the best sportswriter in town and Bob Haynie is as good as any on the radio. Rob Long is okay, but everyone else is either uniformed or such a blind homer.
Rexx
by Rexx on May 5, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I generally just stick to our opinions and whatever ESPN and NFL.com has to say.
Or Mike Duffy from www.baltimoreravens.com. I just do not like hearing people that write for the city paper that is covering the Ravens say that we are going to lose to Dallas by 17 or Cleveland is going to tie the series.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 5, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that it’s tough to reconcile when you pick us to go 16-0 every year. I still haven’t seen you go off on Rexx when he picks us to lose games, though.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 6, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When have I ever picked us to lose games?
besides, he would NEVER…
Rexx
by Rexx on May 6, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He picks us to lose on paper
Or should I say HTML program? Whatever, but deep down inside, he knows we are winning the game. If we were the freaking Lions or even the Browns, I would be picking us to lose games. But with the team that we have, there is no reason for us to lose.
And I am forced to hold back my aggression after losses. It has gotten pretty bad before, just not on here.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 6, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing can be as bad as when the Raiders drafted DHB.
by BAL_Hawk on May 6, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beck and Smith have the exact same starting experience. In fact, Smith has had more success during his starts.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Troy’s a winner. QB’s should be started by matchup. Against Pitt we should start Smith. One day the NFL will see the light and have a QB rotation depending on the opponents strength. He is more dangerous than the other proposed backups. Height is a stupid factor for QB. If a guy can make his passing lanes he’s fine. I hope he starts somewhere soon but coaches are like sheep and follow each other looking for 6-4 230 qb’s. Does Flacco have the same success at Ohio State and win the Heisman?
by raven on May 3, 2009 11:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope so. If Flacco doesn’t win the Heisman at Ohio State, he’ll never make it in the pros!!!
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 4, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right there with you
I am tired of hearing that Troy will not be a good QB because of his height. If you can make the plays, what does your height matter?
Tell Doug Flutie he was too short to be a starting QB. He was only 5’10" and had a few good seasons. Drew Brees is one of the best QB’s in the league today and stands at only 6’0". Mike Vick has a very solid Career for the Falcons before fighting puppies, he stands at 6’0".
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points.
I don’t think that height is everything, but it does help. It’s sort of like arm strength. There are many good quarterbacks with mediocre arm strength. It’s not everything, but it helps. This can be said about almost every measurable in reference to quarterbacks. That’s why it’s so hard to grade them. The most important statistic is still winning.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
And the thing with arm strength is sort of overrated. Sure, it may help a little on the 10-15 yard passes. But there is really no difference if a guy can throw it 80 or 60 yards.
Very rarely is the QB ever going to have to throw the ball over 40 yards IN THE AIR to his WR. It comes down to accuracy. Troy may have not shown us much in the accuracy department to let us make an assumption, but he also has not shown us enough to question his accuracy.
Also, if anyone is worried about Troy’s arm strength, did you know that at the combine before he was drafted he threw a football 69 mph. Faster then Brett Farve and Peyton Manning did before they were drafted.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MaLoR
Those short guys are the exception to the rule. Do some more research and you will disprove your own point.
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although
That’s not to say Troy Smith will never be a starter in this league, though the odds are against him if you look at it from a historical perspective.
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable
Just wanted to point out that QB’s without ideal height have had some success in the past and present. Not saying that Troy has done anything yet to consider him a successful QB, but I do not think it is right for many people out there to immediately question his ability to succeed under center because of his height. I rather people look at the other aspects before making an assumption.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
People have the right to question his ability to be a starter because of his height, as a historical precedent has already been set in that regard. Sure there are exceptions as you’ve mentioned but Troy does have an uphill climb to succeed as a number 1 NFL QB.
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree... sort of...
Measurables should be taken into account when considering a QB, especially a long-time starter. The statistics don’t lie. The guys with good measureables typically do better than the guys with bad measurables. However, I think that Malor is simply pointing out that measurables aren’t everything. There is no perfect QB. A guy with bad height or arm strength can compensate by being a tenacious winner (Drew Brees and Chad Pennington), and a guy who has every physical tool can become lazy or just simply not be a winner (Rex Grossman and Kyle Boller). Ideally, a QB would have all the tools and be a winner, but those guys are hard to come by. The bottom line is that every QB wins in different ways. Anything that helps the team to win is a good thing… Even if it’s unorthodox.
Obviously, I’m all for competition. If Beck wins in camp, I’ll be thrilled. I just don’t think that we should automatically give Beck an edge because he’s a “prototypical QB.” That doesn’t mean anything.
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Though i think Beck will be the better QB
in their respective careers, I’ve always said that Troy Smith’s throwing mechanics were so good that they actually negated his height issue, as he throws right over the top while many taller QB’s throw a bit side-armed. However, istill say Beck is the better long term answer while Smith is a valuable “weapon.”
Rexx
by Rexx on May 4, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally, a QB would have all the tools and be a winner
= Joe Flacco
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
They gotta have a 6 inch eye brow to. How can we forget that one.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you know?
That Flacco made an appearance on the Simpsons as a youngin?
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Need to do something about those teeth
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are his baby teeth
Now he’s all pearly whites
by DT711 on May 4, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what
sorry to call you out dude but that is one dumb idea. not how you run a team by QB rotation. Rarely if ever works in college and has never worked in the NFL and yes it has been tried, the last time seriously in the 1960’s. Troy Smith was a 5th round draft pick. Yes there have been success stories like Tom Brady and Kurt Warner, but these are exceptions to the rule. Off the top of my head here are some of the best in the league and where they were selected
Manning – 1st pick
McNabb – high 1st round
Worthlessburger – high 1st round
Rivers – High first round
e. manning – high first round
carson palmer – high first round
drew brees – very high second round
cutler – high first round
so the coaches are like sheep comment may be true in general but when it comes to QB’s the bottom line is that most of the best in the NFL are very high end picks and Troy Smith just isn’t in that group. I’ve go nothing against the guy but you are looking through Ohio State colored glasses.
by ppdoc on May 4, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You left the most important name off that list
I am disappointed……
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 4, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the Mike Preston of the Beatdown.
He needs to bring his cold, cruel reality to crush our shiny, fluffy dreams… Just when I thought I was out…
by BAL_Hawk on May 4, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget about Brees....
…the Chargers had given up on him and drafted Rivers (actually they drafted Eli Manning who pulled an “Elway” and refused to play for them so they traded him for River). Anyway, it was looking like Brees was a bust until they got Rivers and then Brees clicked and the rest is history, but he was thought to be headed for mediocrity until he caught fire.
Rexx
by Rexx on May 5, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conspiracy Theory
I think all this really means is that Bouman’s days as a clipboard holder are numbered…
I think for at least the ‘09 season it is Flacco, Smith, Beck; with the hope that Bouman, Wiley et al can provide competition for the #3 spot and maybe even unseat him. I do not think Smith’s position as chief backup and “Suggs Package Extraordinaire” is in any jeopardy.
Besides I think most teams have four or five arms in camp anyway just as a matter of how they conduct practices. Unless Wiley is the second coming of Brady, I really do not see him making the team unless we can somehow stash him on the practice squad as a fourth QB.
Even if a team or teams take a flyer on Smith at the end of his contract, to sign him as a FA, it will not be for that much -nothing the Ravens couldn’t match if they wanted to.
Now, concerning my subject line. Try this one on, race fans: Ozzie is still trying to work a deal for Boldin, but it involves Smith. I know, Cardinals have Leinart, but in light of past history, how sold are they on him? Kurt is gone after this year. Why not approach Smith and say that it would be wide open competition between him and Leinart next year? Hmmm?
by vlad755 on May 4, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
John Beck will probably be the #2 quarterback by game 1 of the season.
Being drafted by Cam Cameron already gives him an edge. Cameron is probably a bit more comfortable with Beck than Smith. Troy Smith also has a desire to compete for a starting job, and I think he’s a restricted free agent at season’s end. Yup, that pretty much spells doom for Troy Smith. ’Ol well.
by E-ROC on May 4, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Todd Bouman has been released, and he signed with the Jaguars.
by E-ROC on May 5, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Watch Out Cleo Lemon
Bouman’s coming for you
by DT711 on May 5, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They got Chad Pennington
That man does not throw interceptions what so ever.
Oh, nevermind.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 5, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Comeback Player of the Year" = Pennington
and now he won’t make it thru ’09 before the Dolphins move onto Chad Henne,…or is it Pat White?
Rexx
by Rexx on May 5, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll admit to being a huge Ohio State homer,
but I still think Troy is a great backup qb option. Especially backing up a guy like Flacco, the typical drop back passer. Troy gives another dimension to the offense when he’s in, something Beck cannot do.
In addition, what has Beck shown that would be a plus over Troy? Am I to believe that the 2 inches of height makes Beck a legitimate project player and Troy a bum? Smith has an above average arm, high release point, and can move around in the pocket. Beck is a guy who is just as green, and does not add the dimension of the running game (not to mention he’ll be 28 years old this season, as opposed to Smith’s 25). Beck may be a great player someday, but anyone who says he’s more worthy of being the backup is basing that on pretty much zero data.
Regardless, I’m sure Smith is gone after this year, but it makes little sense to have Beck be the backup for this team over Smith.
by thedecline19 on May 6, 2009 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i thought the Jets or Browns should have taken Troy.
by raven on May 10, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Billick was the ultimate big arm lover. screw fire and attitude he just liked to watch dudes throw rockets in practice.
by raven on May 10, 2009 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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