Comparing the AFC North Defenses in 2008
Offense makes highlights, but defense wins championships. The Pittsburgh Steelers saw that this past February and the Baltimore Ravens have always seemed to live by that mantra. So how did the defenses in the AFC North stack up in 2008 and does that answer a lot of the questions as to where the four teams finished even though that doesn't even address the offensive side of the ball? Let's take a look at some statistics and rankings from NFL.com to see what happened last season on the defensive side of each team.
The Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens finished ranked numbers one and two overall in yards per game allowed. The Cincinnati Bengals did better than their record indicated but the Cleveland Browns were just woeful on defense.
Yards per game allowed:
#1: Pittsburgh - 237
#2: Baltimore- 261
#12: Cincinnati- 325
#26: Cleveland- 356
The difference between the Steelers and Ravens is similar to the difference between the Bengals and Browns. However, when you see that Cleveland is allowing over a hundred more yards per game than the Steelers and almost that much than the Ravens, the gap is huge.
Points per game allowed:
#1: Pittsburgh- 13.9
#3: Baltimore- 15.2
#16: Cincinnati- 21.9
#18: Cleveland- 22.8
Once again, not a huge difference between the top two and the same with the bottom two. But overall, giving up a touchdown more per game by the Bengals and Browns is easily the difference between contending and pretending.
Turnover Differential:
#3: Baltimore- +13
#8: Cleveland- +5
#11: Pittsburgh- +4
#20: Cincinnati- -2
A surprising change of rankings that has the Browns better than the Steelers, which absolutely shocked me. Then again, there was a stretch of games where Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger threw something like eight interceptions in three games. The Ravens take the number one spot in the division mostly on the strength of safety Ed Reed and his league leading nine interceptions.
Finally, I looked at an obscure category that no one seems to mention, and that is the number of plays from the line of scrimmage allowed. Check out these telltale numbers.
Scrimmage Plays Allowed:
#3: Baltimore- 928
#11: Pittsburgh- 974
#21: Cleveland- 1,004
#23: Cincinnati- 1,013
This shows that the Bengals allowed the opposing teams to run 85 more plays than the Ravens, which is an average of five plays per game. That might not seem a lot to you, but remember that that is an average, and also comes out to be more than an extra offensive series a game for the opposition. How many games did the Bengals and Browns lose in the last minutes that an extra series or two by the opponents probably made the difference? Keeping the opponents' offense off the field is one of the biggest keys to the game in the NFL.
The Ravens have always had that bend-but-don't-break attitude. Feel free to try to move between the twenties, but just try to put it in the end zone against us. That's why I've always argued that the number one defensive statistic that truly matters is points per game. Ranking as the top few teams year in and out will always make the Ravens (and the Steelers) a competitive team deep into the season, one that most other NFL teams do not like to see on their schedules.
These statistics prove why Baltimore and ultimately Pittsburgh, deserved the final standings that they earned in 2008. Can they be repeated in 2009? The Ravens, Steelers and their fans certainly think and hope so. The Bengals and Browns, along with their fans, certainly hope not.
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120 comments
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Comments
Browns are just pathetic
Most pathetic franchise in the NFL.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 15, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah right. We would have been much better if we didnt have so many injuries
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 17, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woa Woa Woa
Just because the Brown stats on defense suck, does not mean that Shaun Roger’s isn’t the best damn player ever to grace the NFL, right?
by DT711 on May 15, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Then that makes Ngata a marson
Cause the man is not from this planet.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 15, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was reading the "Ask a Raven" thread over at DBN, Rexx
I looked to be a focus of conversation from many. So I signed into my other account and wanted to contribute (in a civilized manner) only to find out………I WAS BANNED! I am 2 for 2 with DBN.
In the process of another name…….any ideas anyone?
I need to be able to blog there once the season starts. Not being able to takes away the fun.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 15, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please disregard Mr MaLoR. He doesn’t understand that the Browns are perennial contenders for the Super Bowl, let alone the AFC North. They have serious depth at every position. Brady Quinn is the QB of the future, and the new coaching staff definitely believes in his ability to start. The Browns picked up an excess of talent compared to what they let go this off season. If the Browns don’t at least make it to the AFC championship, it will be a complete letdown to every person following the NFL.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 17, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said that they were great. I just said that they werent as bad as people say they are. They will not win the AFC North this year, im not expecting them to. I do expect them to get around 7 or 8 wins. And the coaching staff actually is confident on Quinn. If they weren’t then they would have traded him for a first round pick.
And is it really necessary to jump on me like that. Its not like i said anything bad about your team ( like malor and rexx do to ours)
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would have traded a 1st rounder for Quinn?
Not saying your a liar, I just haven’t seen that anywhere. Do you have a source?
by DT711 on May 18, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know of a few teams desperate for an over-hyped bench warmer, but I’m not telling. He does look jacked in that Gatorade commercial, though.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 18, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heres one.
There are a few other sources that said this too.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s your proof? A Cleveland blogger says he knows somebody who doesn’t work for any NFL teams — let alone for the Browns — that knows two teams’ offers for Quinn? If you believe that, then I have a football team to sell you in Cleveland.
My interpretation: that blogger has an imaginary friend, and Kokinis briefly forgot that he couldn’t trade his first round pick for his own QB…twice. Fortunately, he rejected his own offers.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 18, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are more sources that just that writer. If you ever watch NFL Live you would have heard about it.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch NFL Live nearly everyday
Never heard that once. And if it were true, we would be able to see it from a source that is either affiliated with the NFL or is outside of the Browns organization/fan club.
Does not make sense to trade a first round pick for a QB that has seen little action. Also, other teams would not give up a 1st round pick that is higher then Quinn was drafted because of his limited time he has seen on the field. So that would mean that teams from like 20-32 would be the only teams to trade for him, but those teams usually have a solid QB playing for them.
I just do not see Quinn being worth more then a high 2nd round pick if he has not proven yet that he is first round quality.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 18, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still pretty sure I’ve seen it at least somewhere on ESPN, but there is no point on arguing about it.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of curiosity, how good was Kokinis for you guys?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was great
But like all other washed up Ravens that leave to go to the Browns, he will fail miserably of course like the rest.
Except for Derrick Anderson of course, that dude can straight Ball. 2010 NFL MVP
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 18, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
George Kokinis was a solid member of our front office. I believe that he helped orchestrate the signing of Lorenzo Neal and Willie Anderson last season. Both players were excellent contributers to the team. I actually think that Kokinis will be much better than Savage. Eric DeCosta is our rock star in the front office… beside Ozzie. I was actually surprised to see Kokinis get a GM position before him.
by BAL_Hawk on May 19, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not hard to be better than Savage
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a die hard irish fan...
…I have my doubts about Quinn. He underperformed unacceptably in some very big games. Plus, his arm stregnth is good but not great. He could pan out, or he could be the next Kyle Boller. Too soon to tell.
by jackmca on May 19, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boller didnt pan out because he had no accuracy. I wouldnt say the same about Quinn.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have no idea about Boller
So don’t even try to come on a Ravens blog and make that comment, even if it is just your opinion. Boller’s accuracy was the least of his problems. His head was #1 and also probably #‘s 2-9, then his accuracy. If his head was clear, his accuracy wouldn’t have been the reason he’s now gone.
Rexx
by Rexx on May 19, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea cause everything that you say on DBN is indisputible right?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using a red herring is an informal fallacy of logic. Do you actually know anything about Kyle Boller, or don’t you?
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 20, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
the one thing that scares me from this is the slight chance that palmer comes back healthy next year. imagine if they end up with a top 10 defense and offense… definitely would add a whole new dimension to this division. i doubt that can happen though, too many internal problems on that team.
overall i like the write up, except for the turnover differential stat. i think it’s kind of misleading to post defensive stats that are MAJORLY affected by the offensive play. i’m not gonna lie though, i’m still in shock that cleveland has a +5 ratio. i just can’t put it together in my head seeing as they went through four quarterbacks and they don’t exactly have the sharpest secondary for getting int’s as far as i know.
by tdp992 on May 15, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
Ravens had the 11th ranked scoring team last season, so our turnover differential just shows how dominating our team can be in causing turnovers.
Ravens did not turn the ball over much on offense last year, but caused many.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 15, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys own up in the Tip Ball drill
Your front 3 is probably the best at batting the ball in the air to cause interceptions. Especially Ngata, and Ngata even picks off passes himself.
….
Again, he is probably the Raven i think the most highly of, i voted for him for Pro Bowl. If he doesnt get in this year and Jamal bloody Williams does, the Pro Bowl will seem even more of a joke than it already is
BLITZBURGH IS BACK
by Steeler_ on May 16, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea man
Thanks for the support. Ngata is a top 5 underrated and overlooked player in this league. Sure, he does not put up 8-10 sacks every year like Haye$worth or Rogers might, but I would love to see either of those drop back in coverage and pick off a pass.
Did you know that in highschool before going to college, Ngata was clocked at a 4.89 forty yard dash. Pretty damn good for a 345 pound man.
He is hands down the best all around athlete playing DT in the NFL. His stats may not show as much as people want (those freaking stat lovers out there) but he eats up 2 blockers every time. The defense starts with Ngata and works its way back.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Yeah Cincy is one of those teams with the coaching and talent to potentially compete. What holds them back, as always, is meddlesome ownership who simultaneously want to control what happens in the football organization while also not being willing to pony up money to sign talent or even scout college players effectively. They only took Roy Williams because his price tag dropped so low. They made a great pick with Palmer and they’re surviving on that acheivement alone.
Still though, they could be a 7, 8, or 9-win team this year or the next.
by jackmca on May 19, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what holds the Bengals back is no chemistry. Ochostinko always whines, Benson gets in trouble, etc. And in the draft they took Andre Smith, Rey Mauluga, and Michael Johnson. I feel sorry for whoever has to put up with all that drama.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
A Browns fan feels sorry for another franchise.
So Depressing.
by DT711 on May 19, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont really get what you’re trying to say.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Browns are really, really, really bad. If one of their fans actually feels bad for another team, then — logically — that team must be at least really, really, really, really bad. Dem’s a lot of really’s. I think that DT711 is saying that he’s depressed that more teams in the NFL aren’t actually competitive.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 20, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you wont beleive me, but the browns will be much better this year.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 20, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would love to see you post this over at BTSC Rexx
Great stuff. I expect the Browns to flop and the Bengals to be very competitive this season, but it will still be Steelers/Ravens winning the division and both making playoffs
BLITZBURGH IS BACK
by Steeler_ on May 16, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I will be rooting for the Bengals
Except when they play the Ravens of course. Marvin Lewis deserves to have a winning team. He is a great coach and did so much for Baltimore during the time he spent with us and won the Superbowl as our Defensive Coor.
I am a big time Chad OchoCinco fan and really like the draft they put together. I could very well see the Bengals taking 3 games or so in the AFC North and finishing with a 9-7 record. They need a RB though, badly.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cedric Benson is going to have a good year
The way he finished last year, and the fact he is the unquestioned starter, i just think hes about to have a really good year.
If theres one thing the Bengals owner can be given credit for, its the retaining of Marvin Lewis. Bengals fans underappreciate that guy just cause theyve lost 2 seasons in a row, but the man can coach, he took the Bengals that were the joke of the NFL and in a few seasons got them to win the division
BLITZBURGH IS BACK
by Steeler_ on May 16, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I hope Marvin can succeed. Cause he hasn’t been given the best talent to necessarily do it with. Browns 3-13, Bengals 8-8, Steelers 11-5, Ravens 12-4
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say.....
Browns 2-14, Bengals 9-7, Ravens 11-5, Steelers 13-3
Dont you just love favouritism.
BLITZBURGH IS BACK
by Steeler_ on May 16, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though
All Browns fans will fight to the death saying that this is their year. They got freaking Alex Mack, watch out!
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im actually glad he didnt fall to us now
Cant remember where i found the link, but there was footage of a pro day/senior bowl/college game where Raji runs right thru Mack
Raji isnt in Ngata, Hampton or Rogers league. Mack is going to get owned. They shoulda taken Oher, look how many good edge rushing LBs there are in the AFC North….well on the teams named Steelers or Ravens
BLITZBURGH IS BACK
by Steeler_ on May 16, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually Raji ran through every during the senior bowl EXECPT FOR Mack. He was the only one who could stop BJ
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 17, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this where we’re suppose to say, “ohhh… ahhh… ?”
by BAL_Hawk on May 17, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no i was just correcting steeler
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 17, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re going pretty far out of your way to correct a Steelers fan on a Ravens website. I can’t actually decipher what you’re trying to say in your original post, but — outside of the Cleveland blog — English is appreciated.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 17, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you referring to my not capitalizing my first letter? If so sorry i didnt know it was that important to you.
If you were talking about me putting BJ, I was reffering to BJ RAJI.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is, actually. If you’re that interested, I was also referring to a noun ommission, a vague pronoun reference, additional improper capitalization, and missing punctuation.
Most of that’s not a big deal, but, since I didn’t watch the Senior Bowl, it would have been nice to know what was supposed to have been in between “every” and “during.”
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 18, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every Buffet During
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 18, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re kinda funny when you arent insulting the browns.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank ya Thank ya
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 18, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was my bad. I meant to put ‘everyone’. And the reason I usually don’t put a period at the end of my posts is that it is kind of understood that I am ending a sentence when i end my post, but if it means that much to you I’ll end this sentence with one.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must save — literally — fractions of a second every day. The efficiency is blowing my mind.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 18, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you insist on arguing over 1 little dot? Just let it go.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is messing with you
I do lazy typing all the time and the only think Ampalling has said to me is that I have the education of a 4th grader. But that’s it, so its not so bad.
Punctuation is not a big deal in comments. You straight
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 18, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can really only take about half of what I say seriously. The only problem is, I don’t know if that makes you an 8th grader or 2nd grader. Math is hard.
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 19, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say...
Browns 6-10; Bengals 8-8; Ravens 13-3; Steelers 12-4.
And the Ravens will sweep the Steelers in the season series. And Omar Epps will be outed as having illegally changed his identity to become Mike Tomlin.
by jackmca on May 19, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MaLoR would hate me if I posted what I think.
by BAL_Hawk on May 19, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still think the Steelers are winning the division
Tiss Tiss
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 19, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think defensive depth will be key to the 2009 AFC North war
secondary – ravens need healthy corners this year, they have been suffering on that front recently. The Steelers lose a starter but gain a versatile duo in the draft. The ravens also lose a young safety. Not sure if they replaced Leonard adequately.
linebackers -the Steelers will continue to dominate with the best outside duo of the decade, but the do lose key depth on the inside. Hopefully Fox can step up. The Ravens lose Scott and pick a fifth rounder.
the line – Ravens took a second rounder that could help, the steelers pick the Ziggy who will hopefully be a starter for many years.
Both defenses seem pretty well set up except I question the raven’s secondary being able to go the distance again.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
by showtime on May 16, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ravens sign 2 very solid FA Corners. One of which will be a new starter.
Then resign Samari to be the primary Nickel. Draft CB Lardarius Webb in the third round. We got way better at 2ndary, trust me.
And do you forget that Leonhard was our back up SS? Dawan Landry went down with a neck injury in week 3. He is the starter and has been the last 3 years. His rookie year in 2006, he puts up 70 tackles, 5 ints and 1 td. So tired of hearing people say we are gonna have trouble replacing Leonhard when HE WAS OUR BACK UP!
The Ravens lose Scott and have last years 3rd round pick, Tavares Gooden, come in and take over Bart’s spot. The man is from Miami, and those guys dont miss in the NFL except for Ken Dorsey. People around Baltimore that he is the most athletic LB on the team. Be prepared for him.
Please look into our situation a little deeper please.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry I don't have your whole roster memorized
I was hoping to learn more from you guy’s responses, so good job. My original point still stands though about depth. It will be key. Steelers and ravens don’t play until November, who knows who will still be standing at that point.
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
by showtime on May 16, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully us
You guys should sign Chris McAlister
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we can have late hit and unsportsmanlike penalties half the season until his knee falls off?
no thanks!
"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
by showtime on May 17, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah depth was clearly our downfall in the AFC champ game...
But I think we really beefed-up at DB. If landry can still play, he’s a stud (unless that injury stole his football game from him), and if not, Nakamura is effective. Certainly more physical than leonhard.
I’m not sure I agree that the Steelers LBs “dominate,” I would say that they have simple responsibilities in their scheme and they handle them quite well. The Ravens use their linebackers differently (not as pure pass-rushers like Harrison), so while they don’t have the gaudy sack numbers, their performance in our system is unassailable. Its kindof like comparing apples to oranges.
by jackmca on May 19, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Steelers rely more on their LB's and not their DL, than the Ravens do
I like the Ravens front three or four, depending on what scheme they’re in, better than Pittsburgh’s.
Rexx
by Rexx on May 19, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
almost forget the chess game
The skilled leader Ryan is on to bigger and better things for the ravens while the Steelers continue to employ the genius of LeBeau

"It was an attrition football game and you know we like that."
by showtime on May 16, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We are very satisfied with Greg Mattison
Dont worry, this team is better then they were last year.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 16, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wouldn't be the first time
That we lost a well-respected Defensive Coordinator while still managing to sustain excellence in the following season(s).
by jackmca on May 18, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I think is going to happen....
Browns- Full on rebuild mode. They are literally rebuilding from scratch again. I don’t seem them making any real headway for the next year when it comes to wins and loses. That 10-6 season I think did more damage in covering up issues and making the organization think it was on firmer footing than it actually was. QB is still a huge issue along with RB (Jamal is just not getting it done) and WR.
Bengals- I cannot help but be skeptical about their draft. There is a reason they have made some historically bad draft picks…they have the most underfunded recruiting staff in the league. Mike Brown has, time and time again, gone after guys with talent but also questionable issues, in hopes of getting cheap talent. Just look at their handling of their wild receiver corp. Ouch Stinko should have been traded to the Redskins, Chris Henry…if anyone would even try to argue that he would still be playing on the Steelers or the Ravens, I think your insane, and the Housh handling just seemed really mucked up to me. IF, and this is a huge if, the defense plays at the same level, and somehow Palmer doesn’t get killed again this year…they will be good. But this team never seems to have depth when it comes to injuries, the team seems to be a three ring circus off the field, and having HBO cameras there will not help in my opinion.
As for the Ravens and the Steelers…we are going to be fighting each other for the division yet again. The Ravens are going to have to take the crown from the Steelers and it won’t be easy. To quote the great Ric Flair “To be the best, you’ve got to beat the best”.
"The ball always seems to find Ed Reed...The man is a menace
"
by UMBC Oriole fan on May 18, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Browns arent in complete rebuilding mode. They already have a great O-line, a QB, solid TE, and some young receivers. On defense they have a moster NT, solid DEs, many new guys at LB, and some good young CBs.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their record last season was 4-12. They fired their head coach and Mangini has proved nothing yet. They also have not named a starting QB. Much like the Ravens last season and despite all other positive factors, the Browns will be categorized as “rebuilding” until they prove otherwise.
by BAL_Hawk on May 18, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Browns were devastated by injuries and you can’t deny that. Mangini has a least proven he can win as a HEAD coach. I would rather have him than McDaniels any day. Quinn will have the job. The reason the staff hasnt said that is because they wanted to improve Derek Anderson’s trade value.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 18, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Ravens were devestated by injuries in 2008
and went to the AFCC.
Not a solid excuse.
by DT711 on May 19, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were on our 4th string QB by the end of the season. Jerevicous was out all year. Stallworth never really recovered fully from his quadriceps injury after missing the first 5 or 6 weeks. Jerome Harrison was injured once he started showing promise. Braylon was spiked during training camp and that took a while for him to recover fully. We had multiple O-linemen go down. Our leader in sacks from 07 had an achilles injury and was out all year. Corey Williams was hurt all year. Peek went down for the whole season. Daven Holly also missed the whole year. You’re right though, not a valid excuse when you have a QB in that has a QB rating of 2
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We started the season with our 3rd sting QB
By the time you got to the 4th string QB the ship that was your season had sailed.
The Ravens had actual, good NFL players who went down..
Dawan Landry
Kelly Gregg
T Gooden
Troy Smith
Kyle Boller
Marshall Yanda
Chris McAllister
Willis McGahee
Samari Rolle
plus many more who were out for a few games. Those guys all missed extended time or the whole season.
Point is that shit happens, good teams find a way to get by. That said, with new management and coaching in place maybe the Browns will get there.
by DT711 on May 19, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re third string QB was a 1st round draft pick. Dorsey wouldnt have been the first pick in a neighborhood pick-up game.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To add
Watching Ken Dorsey play for you guys was one of the funniest things I’ve seen in the NFL. My girlfriend has a better arm then Dorsey. That must have been painful to watch as a fan of the team.
by DT711 on May 19, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont even get me started on Dorsey. And then Dorsey’s backup, Gradiwikoski (sp) was 10x worse(if u can imagine that). The funny thing is that the Raiders picked Grad up in the free agency. And you say the Browns are pathetic.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Browns are pathetic
Raiders have some good players on their team. And its funny to laugh at Al Davis.
But the Browns, wow. As soon as a Raven player is allowed to explore other teams, the Browns pick them up right away. They draft quality players, and do not know how to use them. Then they get DA, he has a decent season throwing 20 tds to Edwards, and everyone in Cleveless thinks DA is god.
Remember, he was cut from our practice squad for a reason, and the Ravens know how to evaluate talent way better then Cleveland.
The Browns will always be pathetic, but that is why we love you.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 20, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You will find very few people in love with DA.
Butch Davis was terrible at bringing in talent. Savage was a little better but Romeo was a pathetic excuse of a coach. I think Kokinis and Mangini will do much better at aquiring talent using it right.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 20, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
Just giving you a hard time cause of how much Browns fans pooped on Ravens fans for letting go of DA before last season.
Kokinis should bring in some good talent, as Ravens guys sure know how to evaluate and play football, unless they go to Cleveland.
Not so sold on Mangina though. He had a much better team in New York and couldn’t get it done.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 20, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he could when favre didnt suck
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Favre received too much blame last season. The team fell apart and started to turn on each other. That typically reflects badly on the coaching.
by BAL_Hawk on May 20, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Favre threw many INTs late in the season and he quit spending time with the team during practice
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 20, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Favre has always thrown interceptions. Look at his stats. He’s a gunslinger. Mangini should have known this before he made the trade for Favre. The other part is speculation and mud-slinging from a team that had a complete meltdown. In the end, the blame falls solely on Mangini. I can understand why this is hard for you to accept, but it is true.
by BAL_Hawk on May 20, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense failed them as well
Why do you think they spent so much on Scott, Leonhard, Ivy, etc?
Rexx
by Rexx on May 21, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed and agreed. There were injuries, and I’d also rather have Mangini. However, the only thing that matters in the NFL is winning. The Browns did not win much last season, and their current staff hasn’t won a single game yet. I will agree that things have improve in Cleveland since last season, but that wasn’t hard to do.
As I have already said… The Ravens were being welcomed to the “basement of the NFL” last off season. Most objective Ravens fans would have considered last season a “rebuilding” year. Saying that a team is rebuilding doesn’t mean that they can’t win in the following season. Do I see it happening? Of course I don’t. I’m a Ravens fan. What do you expect?
by BAL_Hawk on May 19, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't either, because...
… the “new” Browns do not hve a winning tradition. 2007 was an aberration for them and they returned to their losing ways in 2008. the opposite was true for us. In 2006 we were AFC North Champs, but due to devastatin injuries in such key positions, we fell to the basement floor. Despite a lot of injuries in 2008, we were better prepared to handle them with better depth (thank you Ozzie & Eric), and we returned to our winning ways. I never thought we were in a rebuilding mode, even with the QB problems. Besides, no one thought we would be starting a rooie QB in 2008 until late in the pre season.
Rexx
by Rexx on May 19, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we are in rebuilding mode we are still a lot better than plenty of teams
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
The Lions
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 19, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zing!
Water covers 2/3 of the Earth's surface. Ed Reed covers the rest.
by Ampallang on May 19, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the Chiefs, Raiders, Broncos, Rams, Bengals, and we are about even with the Jags and niners.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 19, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously, this is all opinion… but I’d put the Browns about even with the Raiders, Niners and Broncos. They all have talent at several positions but need to bring it together. They all have QB concerns as well. The other teams that you mentioned at least have reliable quarterbacks.
by BAL_Hawk on May 20, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palmer has done nothing since 06. Bulger is wahed up.
I still stand by my opinion
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well… That’s an opinion, but you need to remember that both Bulger and Palmer have proven than they can win. Their teams have struggled recently (leading to their poor numbers), but it’s usually easier to win with a proven QB. Trying to develop a quarterback AND win at the same time is very hard to do. I’m not saying that is can’t be done. The Ravens and the Falcons did it last season, but it’s not a historically winning combination.
by BAL_Hawk on May 20, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
statistics mean nothing to the individual
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 20, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats mean a ton
especially around contract time!
Rexx
by Rexx on May 21, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s okay. You’ll learn what I’m talking about one day.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 21, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heres an example;
Lets say there is a man with some type of minor illness. There may be a high percentage that he will live. But if he dies, did those statistics really mean anything to him?
Same thing goes for starting rookie QBs last year.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 21, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
illness vs qb stats
Not really getting the connection……
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on May 21, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind. I seem to be having trouble explaining what I mean. Lets just forget this conversation.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 21, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that this comment actually supports my argument.
by BAL_Hawk on May 21, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we were injured too
Everybody was devastated by injuries. The simple fact is that the Browns had the tools to win all season long, and they didn’t (very often). The Ravens had more guys on IR than any team in the playoffs and still went to AFC Champ. game.
you’re probably right about Quinn and Anderson, but i’m still not sold on Quinn (and I’m an Irish fan, so I know his stuff).
Mangini’s weakness will be his adherence to the same 34 scheme that Crennell couldn’t make work. its a fine scheme, but the personell isn’t there for it (besides Rogers). The DBs blow assignments and the DEs fail at two-gap responsibility (critical to the 34 scheme).
I’m not saying he can’t win, but he definitely has some rebuilding to do. Maybe he’ll handle it gracefully like Harbaugh did and it’ll look more like “remodeling” than “rebuilding,” but frankly I don’t expect a winning season from Cleveland next year. The division just got a lot tougher without them.
by jackmca on May 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of this reliance on statistics...
…is what people who don’t know football schematics use to sound like the know football schematics…
Frankly, the stats leave out key parts of the game. There is no stat for Haloti Ngata eating double teams on every play. There is no stat for Bart Scott subtracting the Fullback from every running play so that Ray is untouched. There is no stat for a Linebacker who stunts up to the line of scrimmage and looks like he’s blitzing and makes the LT miss his assignment even though he doesn’t actually make the tackle on the play.
Bottom line is that Baltimore’s defense is good because of the versatility of each player on it and their collective ability to make pre-snap reads nearly impossible (which is why we cause so many turnovers). Pittsburgh’s defense is good because of absolutely perfect defensive responsibility and skill at every position. The Eagles, though featuring the 3rd ranked defense in the NFL (if you ask the numbers), are basically just good at using their 46 scheme to fill up the inside gaps and let the Defensive Ends run free with the singular responsibility of getting to the QB. They don’t have the same type of bulletproof gap responsibility that the Ravens and the Steelers show.
We’ll see how the Bengals defense looks next year with all those new faces. They could have chemistry problems, or they could gel together like Dr. Scholls. If they do, and palmer stays on his feet, that could be a dangerous 8 or 9 win team.
But you can forget about the stats. Most years, the NFL’s leading tackler is on a horrible defense. Why? Because they can never get off the field, so they keep makig tackles! Besides beating off to sack numbers or passer ratings, the stats don’t really tell you what type of football teams play.
by jackmca on May 18, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cleveland and cincy need to go dirty bird black for a season and change their mojo. something about orange in pro-sports makes you the whipping team.
browns, bengals, fins, orioles, tigers…crayola teams. even the indains and reds where smart enough to stay away from traffic cone orange.
by raven on May 26, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
someone mentioned that the Pitt Lb’s are job specific and simply line up and rush the qb. can i see the hands for initiating this program? actually. we do get on Ben pretty good but he disappears faster than Clarence the angel outside of Martinin’s bar.
by raven on May 26, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oops, not martinis bar but the old house were ernie the cop was wrestling him. gotta get my Wonderful Life straight.
by raven on May 26, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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