The Ravens are really good at drafting
The most stunning result from this particular weekend is the results of the Ravens three draft day trades. They traded twice with the New England Patriots and once with the Denver Broncos, and it was pretty much a cup game. They literally walked out with more value than they walked in by almost any metric. They walked in with 6 picks (#26, #57, #88, #123, #162, #198) and walked out with 6 picks (#23, #57, #88, #137, #149, #185). Here's how it went down...
The Ravens decided that they had to have OT Michael Oher, and Bill Bellichek seemed to want no part of the first round. So we traded a fifth round pick (#162) to move up three spots in the first round while the Patriots flew out of it. I love this trade and pick, because Michael Oher was a player I had written off any chance of the Ravens getting. I think he was one of the top 10 players in the draft and a huge steal for the Ravens at #23... but that's still my opinion, and only the beginning of the story.
Then the Ravens, when they were going to make their fourth round pick, chose to trade it and their sixth round picks to the Patriots for two fifth round picks. This was picks (#123 and #198) for (#137 and #141). A late fourth and sixth rounder for two fifth round picks, not bad. Finally, when it came to #141, they traded it for a later fifth round pick plus a sixth round pick (#149, #185). Finally, the Ravens had six picks, exactly where they started with. But that's not all. What this essentially means is that in order to move up and take Oher, the Ravens had to give the Patriots... 9 spots in the late 4th round of the draft. That's it. Move up 3 spots in the first round, move down 9 spots in the 4th round. Wait, no, the Ravens weren't satisfied with that deal, they held out for getting to move up 13 spots in the fifth round and 13 spots in the sixth round. There is literally no metric that makes any sense that could possibly argue against the fact that the Ravens walked out of the draft with literally better draft picks than they walked in with.
Now, if the Ravens scouting was as good as the Ravens draft day dealing, this will be one hell of a draft to remember.
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
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I hope your right math_geek
Even though I do not agree with some of the picks, I will support what Ozzie does. He is taking guys that I never even heard of, and that is definitely a good thing. It is quite amazing that we went in with these 6 picks, and walked out with 6 better picks.
Weird way to look at it, but if you add up the spots where the picks are in the draft, our original picks equals 654 and after the draft, our picks equal 639. Pretty incredible. We were able to basically move up a total of 15 spots throughout the draft. I will give Ozzie credit that that is pretty insane and he is an absolute genius when it comes to keeping quality picks.
However, I think this is one of the weaker drafts we have had. Not saying that our picks will be busts, but I think we could have gotten better value on the 2nd day. I love the first 2 picks. Oher at RT for the next 8-10 years makes my mouth water and Kruger reminds me of a more versatile Jared Allen. I could see him being a relentless pass rushing hybrid DE/OLB. I give our first day A- grade
As for the 2nd day picks. I give it a C grade. I like what Webb brings. He is going to be a great special team player and will definitely see some time in the dime packages. Philips should be okay, but I think there were other players available that could help us a lot more. Davon Drew I never heard of and I dont really know what he is all about, but I would have taken Ingrum. With the RB, its funny cause I was watching this with 2 of my friends. And in my outraged mode that I was in, I sarcastically said that we were going to take the RB from Virginia. What do you know, we take Peerman. Really hope Ozzie made a choice here.
Again this is just my intake, and besides Oher, I do not think we did one thing to improve our passing game. All 3 teams in our division have a game breaking WR, and we do not. It really irritates me to, cause all we talked about and heard others talk about since the season ended was how much we NEED to give Joe weapons.
I say it again, we got stronger at positions that were not weak and we got weaker at positions that were already weak.
C+ overall grade. Yes, I am an asshole
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 26, 2009 9:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The WR thing is the biggest issue. But we got stuck. You absolutely don’t take any WR (except Crabtree) over Oher. There was no WR worth taking compared to Oher in the first round.
By the time we got to our pick in the second round, we were low on draft ammo to move up and Mohammed Massoquoi, Brian Robiskie, and Pat White were all gone. Either reach for a guy like Ramses Barden or take a stud in Paul Kruger.
Then, right before the Ravens pick, absolute slaughter happens at the WR position. At pick number 82, the WRs are still on the board and I’m feeling great about getting one in the third round. Then… Lions take Derrick Williams, no big deal, I didn’t like him that much. Then… Patriots take Brandon Tate, that hurt cause he’s a really good prospect. Then… Steelers take Mike Wallace, and the Giants trade up to get Ramses Barden. Two picks later, the Dolphins have taken Patrick Turner. Any time 5 of the 6 guys ahead of you take a WR, your WR probably just got taken and you pick another position rather than reach.
BPA means BPA. Still, I agree we need WR help and it’s a bit strange the Ravens never found any WR to take.
by math_geek on Apr 26, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
But math_geek, I am in now way upset with the Oher pick, if it came off that way. O-Line was definitely a top 3 need for us, and we took IMO the best one.
But yes, the WR really pissed me off today. As our offense did not get any more exciting then it was last year besides Oher. Everyone talks about Flacco going to hit a sophomore slump. Now, I am not saying he will what so ever, but I was/am looking for Joe to break out and at least get a 3,000+ yard and 20-25 TD passing season. And I do not see that happening. If we want to beat the Steelers, we need a WR that can get us a deep one early and get a quick lead.
I just do not understand that all the teams in our division besides us have a deep threat WR. It is bullshit that the Bengals and Browns combine for 8-10 wins each season, yet they both have WR that can put up 80+ rec 1,200+ yards and 10+ TD’s each year.
What we have now is not the answer.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 26, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is bullshit that the Bengals and Browns combine for 8-10 wins each season, yet they both have WR that can put up 80+ rec 1,200+ yards and 10+ TD’s each year.
Is this an argument that a stud WR is not a correlation to winning? Might just be.
In no way am I arguing that the Ravens don’t need to improve their receiver corps. I’m saying the Ravens had a lot of parts that they needed to improve, and they maximized that by picking highly touted players. Getting angry because they picked a TE that had a smaller name than Cornelius Ingram is a little short-sighted. They need TE’s who can block. Drew can block and Ingram can’t. If Drew can block, than he can be a very good player in this offense.
I also disagree that Oher doesn’t make the offense more exciting. Watching your offensive line beat the living crap out of a defensive line is exciting. Oher may be better than Willie Anderson right NOW. He certainly will be in five years. Give Joe Flacco enough time and the WRs will get open. Not even Deion Sanders can cover a Mark Clayton for 10 seconds. Besides, I thought you liked Mark Clayton? At least more than I did.
Also, the Ravens regularly ran sets with only three route runners, meaning that the passing game was kind of boring but kept Flacco clean. Improving pass protection while increasing the number of route runners (regardless of their quality) makes the offense more exciting while keeping Flacco on his feet.
by math_geek on Apr 26, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Ravens need to upgrade at reciever.
There is no denying that, but not at the expense of reaching for a player in the draft or overpaying in free agency.
by BAL_Hawk on Apr 26, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Mark Clayton.
I think that he will look alot better as defenses are forced to commit to the run, and Cameron can send 3-4 recievers out on routes. Good points.
by BAL_Hawk on Apr 26, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said below...
Our running game will be dominate with Oher, and that ability alone will open up the passing game. Not only that… our tight ends will not have to block as much in pass protection. I think that our receivers will look much better next season.
by BAL_Hawk on Apr 26, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They again...
Even though we didn’t take a wide receiver I have a hunch that Ozzie is cooking up a deal with Boldin or Edwards or someone thats a free agent. Just a feeling but I hope I am right!
"But like my father said, you want Jennifer Lopez but does she want you? No. I'll just take what ever they give to me."-Julian Taverez
by purpleonblack86 on Apr 26, 2009 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the Boldin deal is done.
I do not see them taking a deal with our players or a deal with next year’s draft picks. They wanted to get picks in this year’s very deep draft and nothing happened. They will most likely sign Boldin to a reasonable 1-2 year deal then maybe try to get him a better contract or trade him. Then again, I could be wrong and I REALLY hope I am wrong.
And I think there is no way that the Browns trade us Edwards. As much as we would love to get him, as many other teams would, I just don’t see them trading a player like that within the division. If they did, they would make us give them a steeper offer then they would people outside the AFC North. Again, I REALLY hope I am wrong.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 26, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must remember that Boldin wants nearly 10 million a season. I cant say i know what the Raven cap space is like but with Suggs still needing a contract the ravens would probably work on him first.
And no way the browns give Braylon to any AFC North team. The browns will suck and last thing they need is to get their ass kicked by their old players. Browns fans may kill themselves if that happened
by archon095 on Apr 26, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr MaLoR
Take a deep breath and a valium. I totally disagree that we got weaker at positions that were already weak. You can’t grade a draft for about 3 years. But I would prefer to look at it this way. We had a few major positions of need. WR, OL, ILB, CB, DE
1. Major position of need – OT – We looked at Starks, we offered a contract to Pace and we ended up with Oher who is better than either of the other two at this point in their career. He has played on the right at guard and on the left at tackle.
2. DE/OLB Hybrid – Kruger may well be the replacement at DE for Trevor Pryce. DT is set with Ngata, Gregg, Bannan and Edwards. So Kruger fills a major need in the near future and everything I’ve read about him sounds great and makes me think of Michael McCrary.
3. ILB – We need depth to go along with Gooden. Greisen is gone, Bart Scott is gone and Ray is in the December of his career. The kid from TCU is a tackling machine who is too small and too light. Anyone remember who was cast as too small and too light. Now I’m not suggesting that this guy is going to be the next Ray Lewis, but Oz has shown a tremendous ability to draft linebackers.
4. CB – again need depth. Kiper was wild over the kid from Nich. State. His comment – think Bob Sanders. Fastest corner in the draft and hits like a train. Only needs to come in and be a dime corner and can learn from Samari, Fabian and Foxworth. Again great fill of a need with a smart player who based on reports plays Ravens football.
5. The only downside is no WR. But I would rather have Oher than either Britt or Nicks. Offensive Tackles picked in the first round have a tremendously higher hit rate than receivers. Granted it was our biggest need, but unfortunately the boys didn’t feel that the people available when they were drafting were worth spending the pick on. In Ozzie I trust. I don’t want to reach for someone based on our need if he isn’t near where we have them ranked.
Overall I think this was a very good draft. If by any chance in the world we can pry Q from the Cards for a second and third next year, this may become the best draft we have had since JO and Ray started the ball rolling over 10 years ago.
Drink the purple koolaid MaLoR – it tastes really good right now.
Peace
by ppdoc on Apr 26, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I just think the Raiders taking Heyward-Bey sparked a fire in me.
I love everything Ozzie did.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 26, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that was only through a keyboard
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 26, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. This will be remembered as an excellent draft.
I have been analyzing the draft… There is no denying the numbers. By the numbers it shouldn’t have worked. I would have never believed that Oher would have been available. To get him and still maintain a equal quantity (and quality) of picks is amazing.
Michael Oher is the real deal. He’s an excellent tackle that I believe will be making the pro-bowl sooner than later. Our offensive line is down-right nasty now. For those of you that are worried about our receivers (MaLoR), remember that teams are going to be forced to sell-out to stop the run. This fact alone will open up the passing game. Mark my words… we will pound teams into the ground next season. I believe that Oher may be remembered as the steal of the draft. I’d give this pick an A+.
Paul Kruger is another classic “Raven” pick. He’s a try hard, tough-nosed football player. However, this doesn’t mean that he’s not athletic. Greg Mattison described him as “heavy handed.” When he impacts players, they visibly stagger. Added to this ability is his quickness and aggressiveness. I believe that Kruger may have more upside than any player currently on our roster. He does have some physical question marks and may not contribute immediately, but he has the potential to be great. I’d give this pick a B+.
Lardarius Webb is a sleeper pick. Chuck Pagano personally scouted Webb. He quickly fell in love with Webb’s ability and potential. Pagano was fired up when we drafted Webb, and Mel Kiper compared him to Bob Sanders. Since Pagano is the coach who developed Nnamdi Asomugha, that’s good enough for me. I think that this pick has alot of value for a third round pick. I’ll give it a B.
Jason Phillips, Davon Drew and Cedric Peerman are all quality picks that add depth to the Raven’s roster. I think that they are all high upside players. My only question is over the positions that were picked. If Ozzie was just adding depth to the roster, I wonder if we could have address other needs. On the other hand, we don’t know our real needs. Ozzie is building the team. All in all, I love these players. I’d give these picks a B- overall (Phillips is a B, Drew is a C+ and Peerman is a B-).
All considered, I’m going to give the draft an A-. Obviously, draft grades given this early are meaningless. We will need to wait and see, but my grade represents my overall grade of Ozzie’s drafting, which is top-notch as always. Oher was just an amazing pick.
by BAL_Hawk on Apr 26, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Size Does Matter
Nnamdi Asomugha is 6’2" and 210 lbs. Bob Sanders 5’8" 206 lbs. This kid, Lardarius Webb, is Bob’s height but gives up 35 pounds-! I think we may have reached with this pick. We probably could have traded back and still got this kid if we were so hot to trot on him. But his size and small school experience are huge red flags in my book. If he was drafted to be a special teams ace, okay fine; but I do not think you burn a third rounder for a special teams ace unless the guy is a perennial pro-bowler. If this guy ends up being a super special teams ace, then of course it was worth it. But if this kid lines up as a nickel or dime back, whoa, if I am an opposing QB and I see this munchkin cheating over to cover my 6’4" gangly (former high school relay team) slot receiver I audible a hot inside slant and go home happy… or if he somehow gets matched up on my TE (which happens from time to time with nickel and dime backs)… I do not even want to think about that… I really hope the Ravens are looking at this kid as a special teamer….
I really like the Kruger pick –I really see him being the next AT –more so than current Jarret Johnson who was projected to be the next AT but (JJ) is obviously not the athlete that AT was.
We won the Superbowl with a strong defense, Trent Dilfer-! and "trash heap" receivers to quote Billick (although we did have Sharpe and Quadry). The difference between then and now is we have Flacco vice Dilfer. Is that enough the get us over the top? Does anybody really care if we are not sexy as long as we win the whole enchilada? That said, I agree we need to pull a rabbit out of free agency or via a blockbuster trade, or have one of our young speedsters suddenly "arrive" out of nowhere to give us a better chance of getting over the top.
Cannot really add anything else about the Oher pick that has not already been said –a homerun any way you slice it. Potentially the steal of the draft unless DHB becomes a Jerry or a TO (the good part of TO). And Drew maybe the H-back type player I have been advocating for many times on this and other boards…
by vlad755 on Apr 27, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Webb is 5'10"
No 5’8" like Bob Sanders. Not sure if we can compare this guy to Sanders yet, like Mel Kiper did. They play 2 totally different positions and I cannot see a man being 35 pounds lighter then Sanders being that physical.
But listen here vlad755. Yes, we did win that superbowl with Dilfer. But if you look at the WR on that team, those guys could stretch the field pretty damn well. Ismial was very reliable WR and could get open very often. Stokley was that young, fast little white boy that just had such good acceleration. Travis Taylor had a very good rookie year in 2000 and looked promisin (we know how that turned out). Patrick Johnson made downfield catches and so on.
In reality, that group of WR in 2000 was not as bad as Tony Banks and Matt Cavanaugh made it look.
But, I can almost guarantee you that you will never see a team like that win a Superbowl. This league has changed drastically since then and the passing game has evolved to do things that people have never seen. Defenses are starting to focus more on the pass then they are the run, and teams like the Steelers have figured out a way to take advantage of the weaker passing offenses (Ravens) by sending insane blitz packages and keeping their DB’s in the right position.
We do not have that someone who is going to get the DB’s out of position. Just not going to happen. This offense has never seen the likes of a truly dominating, down field, cannot be covered 1 on 1, WR. Dink and Dunk offense is ok I guess to some people, but why can’t we have a Colt, Patriot, Saint. etc style passing game. Why the hell not?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 27, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you put it that way...
…I guess there was a bit of a (negative) gap between the receiving core we had back then versus now. Who knows, maybe a Healthy DW or one of the young guys is really the answer in waiting… we did acquire them for some reason…
About the Colts and Patsies, Manning and Brady are such freakin’ studs I do not think it really matters who they are throwing to, they still get 4,000+ yards, 30 TD’s, etc.
by vlad755 on Apr 27, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the thing is
I think that Joe has all the tools to be a stud passer like them. He has a rocket arm, insane accuracy and great thinking ability. I am unsure if Manning or Brady could do THAT MUCH better with the guys we have compared to marvin and wayne or Moss and Welker.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 27, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
slight rookie's are told to put on weight when they go to the pros
Webbs is going to gain 15 pounds by this time next year.
by math_geek on Apr 27, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WR
Many teams reached at WR. Barden was ranked as a 4th or 5th, he went in the 3rd i think. Patrick Turner was graded in the 6th or 7th, and he went in the 3rd too. I think we might have been hoping for Johnny Knox in the 5th with our 2nd pick , but the Bears snagged him one pick before us so we traded out of the pick. Oh well. I guess Ozzie is banking on LJ Smith having a big year and one out of Demitius, Harper or Smith to step up as a solid 3rd reciever. Maybe Jazz20 is right and we already have a stud on the roster. I can dream, right?
by Rayisyourdaddy on Apr 26, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets get it started
How about we start the season right freaking now!!!!
Already looking for my tickets to see us kick the crap out of the Pack at Lambeau Field on December 7, 2009.
by ppdoc on Apr 26, 2009 10:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to go to Lambeau
What say we organize a “Beatdown Roadie?”
Rexx
by Rexx on Apr 27, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I would like to apologize
To anyone who was in the live threads throughout the weekend who witnessed my explosion. I did not mean to offend or annoy anyone from what I wrote at times.
It is not that I hate the picks we made, as I always say that I support anything Ozzie does. This is his expertise and I am just someone who voices a meaningless opinion.
A lot of what I said came from what we all went through the last few months. The great contributors of this site spent countless amount of time breaking down the WR position and studying all the prospects that could have possibly landed with the Ravens. It just really disappointed me that there was so much talk of getting WR’s by us and all the experts.
There was so much talk of how much we needed to give Joe some weapons and we did not grab anyone.
Again, I love our draft picks. I cannot wait to get this freaking season started. I am sorry for my outbursts and ridiculous comments I through out there.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 26, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's cool.
I don’t think that you were ever out of line. We all love this team and have our hopes for it.
by BAL_Hawk on Apr 26, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well if you think about it really hard the ravens did receive new wr like ernie wheel wright and other wideout just cant remember their names but ozzie said in the conference room that he not worry about wr postion and he think that demetrius williams will become that deep threat everyody wants, and besides the other teams draft the best wide out way before our turn I was mad the raiders draft dhb
by jazz20 on Apr 26, 2009 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, (please read Mr. MaLoR)
I know some didn’t like the pick of Cedric Peerman from Virginia, but I can identify at least one outlet that supports it. Turns out some math whizzes have developed a metric for an RBs success purely based on Combine 40 time and Weight. This should measure how much of a force an RB can bring to a running game.
http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2009/speed-score-2009
The system has had a reasonable amount of success, and this kid could be absolutely dynamic. Although rated as a fumble risk, he only fumbled 4 times in 448 college touches. This kid could be an enormous steal.
by math_geek on Apr 27, 2009 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty incredible
I like the guy. Seems like a solid pick. Not sure if we are ready to get too hyped up, gotta see how he does in training camp. But this is a very unique and interesting system. I read that Brandon Jacobs had like a 128 or something like that cause he was 245 pounds and ran a 4.56.
I find it interesting that Allen Patrick, our 7th round RB draft pick last year, actually had a better speed score of 97.6 then Knowshon Moreno this year and Patrick gets cut by us and Moreno is a first round pick. Strange.
And the fumble comment about Peerman is ludicrous. Just because a man has “small” hands, that means he is going to be a fumble worry, yet he averages 1 fumble per 112 touches? I think people are just looking for an excuse to say why he is a 6th round pick. Small hands, give me a break.
The man definitely has an NFL body, that’s for sure. And oh yea, math_geek you are the first of many I am sure to start giving me crap for thinking I hate our picks. Which I don’t
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 27, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, you did specifically call out that you didn’t want the Ravens to take Peerman
And in my outraged mode that I was in, I sarcastically said that we were going to take the RB from Virginia. What do you know, we take Peerman. Really hope Ozzie made a choice here.
I wasn’t thrilled with the choice either at the time. A little research, and I absolutely LOVE it. Not saying you don’t like the picks though, and not trying to give you crap, just trying to point out that Peerman lack a peer, man.
by math_geek on Apr 27, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go to bed, lol
See, I just did not see us taking a RB when it got to be near our pick.Just like I did not expect Jason Philips either. I saw players on the board who I liked, and Ozzie saw differently.
I guess I just do not understand what Ozzie is thinking. Then again, who could have expected a draft like this one?
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Apr 27, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only gripe I have is passing up Jared Cook for Lardarius Webb.
You’ve already protected your quarterback with pick of Michael Oher, but why not give your quarterback a target that can cause match-up problems? Everything else is good with me, especially the last pick.
by E-ROC on Apr 27, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Webbs was one of the shakiest picks in my opinion, but I think the Ravens only wanted TEs that they saw projected to be solid blockers.
by math_geek on Apr 27, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone always say WR develop in 2 or 3 years
And last year we draft 2 receivers, and we sign 2 undrafted FA.. So lets hope they develop.
I think is a smart move by Ozzy let M Smith, J Harper,Weelwright develop..
With abetter OL (Birk is better than J Brown, Yanda back, and Oher as RT, we will use out TEs on the passing game a lot…
THE MEXICAN RAVEN
by JORGE NITALES on Apr 27, 2009 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Playmaking WR
is just not who we are. Yeah, Cleveland and Cincy have that big name guy, but what has it got them, besides big headaches. God help this team if we have to resort to throwing it up 30-40 times/game.
Rexx
by Rexx on Apr 27, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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