Is this silly?
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 2:38 PM EDT
58 comments
Hello there Baltimore. I would like to point out some things that make a case for a valid comparison between the Broncos of 2009 and the Ravens of 2000. It is not my intention to troll here, I genuinely would like to hear what you all think of this:
2000 Ravens per game average stats
Points scored = 20.8
Points allowed = 10.3
Game point differential = 10.5
Defensive stats
Sacks = 1.75
Interceptions = 1.15
Forced fumbles = 2.1
2009 Broncos per game average stats through 6 games
Points scored = 22.2
Points allowed = 11
Game point differential = 11.2
Defensive stats
Sacks = 3.5
Interceptions = 1
Forced fumbles = 1.66
As you can see, there are some very similar numbers here. Denver's offense will get better and will score more points per game- I believe that can be said with relative certainty. One thing that really stands out is Denver's sack total per game. Denver's pass rush so far is more successful than what the Ravens achieved in 2000. It could be reasoned that Denver's defense has the potential of being at least as good as the Ravens of 2000.
The 2009 Broncos appear to be a better team than the 2000 Ravens were- I know, how can that be when Denver hasn't really done anything? Well, for one thing, Denver has the advantage of having been completely disrespected before the start of the season. This has caused Denver to play the underdog role in all games to date, and will again be a 3.5 point dog on Sunday. All of the pundits are calling for them to be the first of the undefeated to fall this weekend. It will be an interesting game this weekend, and I will be putting my money on Denver with the points.
I would love to hear what you Ravens fans have to say about that.
The opinions posted here are those of the administrator of this blog and his loyal readers. They are in no way official comments from the team, and should not be misconstued as such, even though he thinks he could do just as well or even a better job!
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Very silly
The numbers you are using cannot say too much up to this point. I will admit that your defense is playing very, very well after 6 games. But it is 6 games. The 2000 Ravens defense is arguably the greatest of all time to many people. Here are a couple reason I feel it is not fair to compare the two.
- First, is the offensive comparisons. The Denver offense is efficient at managing the game, much like the 2000 Ravens offense was at times. However, our offense went a 5 straight weeks without scoring an offensive touchdown. Yes, 5 STRAIGHT WEEKS In that time, we were 3-2, and it was clearly because the defense was winning games 9-6, 15-3, and so on. Your offense can score Touchdowns fairly easily with the dangerous players you have all around.
- Shutouts. The Ravens had 4 shutouts that season, where as your Broncos have yet to achieve 1 so far after 6 games. After the 2000 Ravens first 6 games, they had already had 3 of their 4 shutouts.
- 165 points allowed all season: That is what the Ravens were able to do. That is an all time record and I feel makes them the best of all time. The single and main goal of a defense is too allow as few points as possible. The fact that the Ravens are the best team to do that in a 16 game season, makes them #1. If you can beat that, I will certainly give you your props.
- Rushing Yards: The Ravens allowed only 970 rushing yards the whole season, which is yet another all time record. After 6 games, the Broncos have allowed 478, nearly half of what the Ravens allowed that whole season. Now, 478 yards so far this season is incredible, don’t get me wrong there.
- The last reason, just look at that lineup from 2000. It was freaking scary. Every player starting on that defense was pro bowl caliber, lead by the greatest LB of all time in Ray Lewis.
Your defense is the best in football right now, without a doubt. Nolan has done some incredible things with a unit that was considered one of the worst in the league all of last year. But it mayyyyyyyy be just a little too early to start comparing your defense after 6 games to the 2000 Ravens defense. But good luck with what you guys have ahead of you, keep proving the league wrong. Except against us of course.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I aknowledge that the Raven's Defense of 2000 was in the top 2 defenses of all time.
Obviously I struck a nerve,
I’m only saying that Denver’s defense has a chance to be in the conversation. While the Raven’s defense was super tough against the run, Denver’s defense is far more productive in the pass rush- to this point twice as productive based on sacks per game. Denver hasn’t exactly allowed a ton of running yardage to this point either.
Shutouts- they are not required as Denver is holding teams to 11 pts per game. I believe Baltimore allowed 36 pts one game that year against Jacksonville.
Denver is on pace to allow only 176 pts all season- not much more than your 2000 Ravens
If Denver can keep their pace up against the schedule they face, there will be no question as to their potency at the end of the season. Denver’s schedule is tougher than what the Ravens faced in 2000.
Final score Denver 24- Baltimore 9
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't strike a nerve at all
You asked for some opinions from Ravens fans, so I gave mine.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough dude, thanks for your thoughts on this...
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Baltimore allowed 36 pts one game that year against Jacksonville.
So is one game where the very, very high powered offense of JAX lit us up make us not as great? We did WIN that game, if you wanted to know.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Jags scored an average of 22.9 pts a game that year
they were high powered that day against the Ravens though…
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 10 offense
I consider that pretty damn high powered.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, here's something for you to chew on
The only top 10 offense Baltimore faced in 2000 was the Jags (#8)
Denver has faced (and beat) 3 top 10 offenses already this year:
Patriots #4
Chargers #8
Cowboys #10
The rankings of offenses that Baltimore played in 2000:
Pittsburgh #17 lost once
Jacksonville #8 lost once
Miami #16 lost
Cincinatti #21
Cleveland #27
Washington #24 lost
Tennesee #13
Dallas #23
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
We beat Jacksonville both times that year.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay, but what do you make of the rest of it....?
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can beat our statistics and win the Superbowl, you will go down as one of the best defenses of all time. But if you beat our stats and don’t get the ring, all those numbers mean……absolutely…….nothing.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus
the three top 10 defenses you’ve played this year may not finish in the top 10, just like your defense will probably allow more points in games to come as well.
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
by jackmca on Oct 29, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's gonna be wet and soggy, so...
Baltimore may not even score those 3 field goals I’m giving them credit for this weekend. hmm… maybe Denver’s first shutout on the way this weekend.
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boy you're gonna hear it from me if we beat you
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
by jackmca on Oct 29, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bring it
If Denver loses I’ll be too drunk to care…
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hahahaha YESSSSSS wait wait wait lemme quote you….
Baltimore may not even score those 3 field goals I’m giving them credit for this weekend. hmm… maybe Denver’s first shutout on the way this weekend.
THRITY TO SEVEN!!!! YESSSSSSS!!!!!!
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
by jackmca on Nov 1, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, yeah, yeah
can’t talk right now, eating crow for dinner. Any way, I know you’ll be cheering for Denver next Monday night.
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Nov 1, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
your other loss was against Tennesee
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shhhhhhhh.....
Don’t let anyone know we played the lowly Bengals and Browns 4 times. Those teams kept Billick around for 10 years. That was also one of the worst Dallas teams of all time. I believe Dat Nguyen patrolled the middle of the field.
by raven on Oct 29, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Flaccid...
…I feel dirty just typing your name!
You are correct, IMHO. Your defense in 2000 was the best EVER.
You were unknown, however…NOT disrespected, as we have been.
IF, we win the superbowl with similar defensive numbers…then we can talk about being one of the best defenses ever. BUT THAT IS A LOOOONG WAY OFF, and not likely.
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 29, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have some faith brother Tom
drink some kool-aid, you will like it!
13-3 baby!!!!
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You actually think you guys are going to lose a game? Better yet, 3? Thought this was the best defense ever and Orton was the second coming of Elway?
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 29, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BWAAAAHAHAHHHAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait to drop in on you on Monday...
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny i was thinking the same thing
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
by jackmca on Oct 29, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...I have faith
In fact, I’m CERTAIN of this victory…just playin’ the humble card.
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 30, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get ready to
play the humiliating card after the game.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 30, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce, that card...
…is not even in our deck.
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 30, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time to open up
a new deck of cards, my friend. See you after the game.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed you will, Bruce
I will bring my “humble” card, and promise not to rub it in.
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 30, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, for one thing, Denver has the advantage of having been completely disrespected before the start of the season.
Dude, people did not even know where Baltimore was on a map prior to us getting a team. You think any respect was given to a team that was only in existence for 3 years prior to winning the Superbowl? Hell no. We didn’t score a Touchdown for 5 straight weeks, no one thought we would even finish 7-9 after that. Ray Lewis was just coming off his trial for double murder which he was found innocent in, but many, many people still hated Ray Lewis and the Ravens because of the “thug” image that we had and still have today. I think the Ravens were slightly more disrespected coming into that season than you guys were this season, even though you did go through some stressful times.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're kidding right..
Have you been living in a cave? Maybe the Ravens were dismissed, overlooked, etc. But, they were never disrespected- not in the way the McBroncos were/ are. Ray’s issues were his own, not the team’s.
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I was not kidding
No, I have not been living in a cave. The Ravens were not just disrespected, but the whole city was disrespected by the NFL for so many years and still is today.
Limp and dangling.
by Joe Flaccid on Oct 28, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, okay I get it...
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course the team was disrespected
With Ray’s problems and without them. We were 8-8 the previous year and no one thought we would do well, much less go on the road and beat both Tennessee (12-4) and Oakland (14-2) in the playoffs.
As far as the comparison, the numbers are similar after 6 games, but let’s talk after the season. Right now, this post is a joke, as I’ll still take the Steelers defense over Denver’s and fully expect them to beat you at home next week. In fact, I still am confident the Ravens can win this game as well. But we will see about Sunday in a few days and after this season is over, and the Broncos have shut out four teams and won the Super Bowl, then you can gloat. Until then, be very, very careful (see NE Pats).
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 28, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how there is any argument here, at all.
Sure, the broncos were definitely disrespected in the offseason. Pundits saying that McD was “the worst coaching hire in NFL history”, “trading a pro bowl QB is stupid”, “nothing changed on defense” etc.
However, what the ravens went through back then was enough to tear a team apart. Having one of your players on trial for double murder?? That is adversity right there. If you ask me, I’d say Bruce is absolutely right on this one. Yeah, the broncos have had trouble with BMarsh off the field, but nothing as big as Mr. Ray Lewis. A trial like that will tear apart a city, team, whatever. The MSM thought what anybody would have thought. They thought the ravens were in disarray. Then the ravens rallied around each other and made it “us vs. the world” and won the whole shebang.
I hope the broncos can do that this season, but to try and compare the broncos offseason with the 2000 ravens offseason is quite a stretch. I’m with you on this Bruce. Trading a pro bowl QB away is nothing compared to having a teammate on trial for double murder.
If Taylor Swift were to try and tackle me, I'd let her.
by kentuckybronco on Oct 28, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baltimore was sharted on for sooo long by the NFL. It was only fitting we beat the “geatest” city in the land for the SB trophy. Kerry Collins just continues to give and give and give.
by raven on Oct 29, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice post walt. denver is playing great no doubt. that points against average will skyrocket after sunday. it’s good you made the comparison today.
by raven on Oct 28, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I did too
Either way, you can bet I will check in with you all next Monday. I will eat my crow/ raven if I’m wrong..
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 28, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, how about
a huge helping of horse this weekend to settle the stomach?
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 29, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'ma gone shoot me a donkey! LOCK AND LOAD BOYS!!!
"Just win baby. Yeah, I stole that."
--Jon Gruden
by jackmca on Oct 29, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The indians would never eat their dogs but they would sure down a horse crossing the brutal Bitter Roots.
I think we are at our own Bitter Roots and it’s time to start a fire, knock Orton off his mare and BBQ a few flank steaks.
by raven on Oct 29, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A guy over at BTSC, WolfpackSteelersFan, wrote the best, most in depth fanpost on this topic I have ever read. It looks deep into the statistics and compares these defenes:
- 1973 Los Angeles Rams
- 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers
- 1977 Atlanta Falcons
- 1985 Chicago Bears
- 1991 Philadelphia Eagles
- 2000 Baltimore Ravens
- 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers
He does in and ranks their defenses based on the offenses they played. It’s quite the article and definitely worth a read if you are interested in this subject. Here is the link.
As far as this argument goes, its pretty silly to compare a team that has played 6 games to a team that played 16. And when you look at your schedule, you still have 6 really difficult games left in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, SD, Giants, Colts, and the Eagles. You are definitely getting well ahead of yourself.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 29, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You are right Johnny
Wolfpack’s post is awesome. All I’m really saying is that I hope my Broncos can wedge themselves into this conversation when it is all said and done. I did preface the post with the title, right? At least there will be no question as to the difficulty of schedule that Denver will have faced whether they maintain this pace or not.
I appreciate all you Ravens fans thoughts on this silly post. Best to you all- after the Broncos beat down the Ravens on Sunday…
MARK IT ZERO!!!!
Dude, this is a league game, this determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
by waltersobchakbronco on Oct 29, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no
I am not a Ravens fan. Hell no. I do live in Maryland, but began following the Steelers when I was young.
See you in 2 weeks.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 29, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll take a look. the best D’s argument has always been a hot topic. so many angles to look at it.
by raven on Oct 29, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great, great job
Obviously he put tons of time and effort into this. I think I saw another analysis comparison at some point in the relatively recent past. Either way, it is excellent and while I didn’t agree with his final decisions, here is what I left there as my comment:
Although I absolutely love your research, to me the top three defenses of all time are the ‘76 Steelers, the ’85 Bears and the ’00 Ravens. If you want to put the ’08 Steelers among the top five or so, then I guess the ’08 Ravens can’t be far behind and to have them in say, the top ten of all time is not right, even from a Ravens fan. The ’00 Ravens might have faced lighter competition tha the others, but they also did what they were supposed to do and that is to shut them down and even out (four shutouts in ’00). therefore, penalizing teams for doing a great job is just wrong in your analysis.
That said, I’d accept any ranking of those top 3 in any order, as that is good enough for me.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 29, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one will ever be able to agree on who was the best, or even who were the top 3. But it certainly is nice to have our teams in the conversation.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 29, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce, not even an honorable mention...
…of the ’77 and ’78 Broncos? Orange Crush ring a bell?
Vinny Gambino: "Ms. Vito, Can you tell the court what this is a picture of?"
Ms. Vito: "Ya know what it's of"
by Bronco_Fan_Tom on Oct 30, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As one of the top defenses of All-Time?
No.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 31, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
never nice to converse about the steelers but it’s history like the Axis powers.
by raven on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This isn't silly, yet...
It’s just way, waaay too early. I will say this, it seems really silly to me right now.
That Ravens defense that year was the best I’ve ever seen. That’s right, write it down Ravens fans. The. Best. I’ve. Seen. As good as our defense was last year, and it was great (#2 in my book… almost #1A) not even our defense took games over like your’s did that year. Those linebackers (Sharper, Lewis, Boulware) ranging all over the field with the help of those DT’s (Adams, Siragousa [I can’t spell it] demanding double and triple teams was a thing of beauty. I love defense… love it, and as much as it pains me, that was the best defense I’ve ever seen. And I don’t know where you got that safety from, #26 I think, but he was really good too. You owe where ever he started his career a bit of courtesy for making him as good as he was.
One small note, I’m 23, so I never saw the ‘85 Bears, the ’70’s Steel Curtain, the Orange Crush, The No Name Defense, or any of the other great D’s this league had before my time.
'I’ve learned to become a flat-liner. There’s a lot out there that’ll make your heart jump if you allow it."
-Coach Tomlin
by NYSteelersFan4 on Oct 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well
if it isnt the coolest guy on earth, mr NY. or shall i say “sean”? Muuuuhahahahaha
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Oct 31, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to make that defense better
was that they were the ONLY one that carried the offense all season. The rest of them had good or great offenses as well. So that alone puts us either up top or that close to it.
aka 'Rexx'
by Bruce Raffel on Oct 31, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh man, you are just silly willy
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Oct 31, 2009 2:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This post is officially closed due to sillyness
66 points allowed in the first 6 games. 30 allowed today. We beat teams up in the 2nd half offensively. No matter what defense is out there.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Nov 1, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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