Game 3: Browns @ Ravens
by Rexx on Jun 29, 2008 11:03 AM EDT
44 comments
The Cleveland Browns put a hurting on my Ravens last year, and to only make it worse, did so with a QB that the Ravens deemed uninterested enough in so as to let the Browns snatch him away off of their practice squad without nary a complaint. Derek Anderson went on to have a Pro Bowl season and was richly rewarded with a $27 million contract extension. Meanwhile the Ravens are still at a loss to determine who will be their QB when the 2008 season kicks off in September.
However, it really doesn't matter to me when determining the winner in each of these games. While the QB position may be the single most important individual position on the field, this is a team game and it's rare that one specific player is the reason a team either wins or loses, unless of course, your name is Steve McNair (or former coach Brian Billick). In my opinion, the key to an offense's success starts and stops with the offensive line. The retirement of All-World left tackle Jon Ogden is a great loss to the team, but it allows the team to finally set guys into place where they could easily remain for years, and consistency in those positions will ultimately equal success.
Therefore, by game three, I believe we will be seeing an improved pass protection as they get comfortable with whomever the QB ends up being (I still want to see Troy Smith in there). The run blocking should be very good, with both Willis McGahee and rookie Ray Rice blasting through holes. At the same time, regardless of who the QB is, I expect opposing defenses to stack the box with eight or even nine guys, just daring the Ravens to beat them through the air. With the multi-facet abilities of Troy Smith at the helm, he should be able to confuse and tire out defenses with his rolling out and scrambling abilities. This should tire out the Browns defenders, as they've totally revamped their defensive front with big plodding tackles who take up space but don't move too well. The Ravens will trap the Browns interior defense and Smith will roll out and move around until his receivers get open against what is still a very poor Browns secondary and their weak link.
On the defensive side of the ball, I am not yet convinced that Derek Anderson will replicate his 2007 season. That is probably why second string QB Brady Quinn is biting his tongue and being patient, as he also knows his time is coming and it could end up being sooner rather than later. The Ravens defense should be healthy and ready to make opposing teams pay for what happened last year. Browns running back and former Raven Jamal Lewis will be bottled up at the line of scrimmage, as he stutter steps to his huge three yards per carry average. The pass rush against a relatively immobile Anderson will pressure him and cause him to lose his cool and that won't bode well in enemy territory, where the Ravens' fans will make a lot of noise in support of Ray Lewis and friends.
If the Ravens players all remain healthy, they have a much better chance of looking like 2006's 13-3 team as opposed to 2007's 5-11 trainwreck. Game 3 should be similar to game 1 and the Ravens win a close game at home.
Ravens: 26 Browns: 20
Season Record: 2-1
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What?
Did someone spike your milk? My friend, you are writing fairy tales. I can tell you this…Baltimore will finish no better than 6-10. You can dream all you want but you still have to line up and play the game.
by Cleveland Rich on Jun 29, 2008 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hater!
Of coruse you think da Ravens arent going to finsh over 500. Cleveland rich.Wn you look back at the ravens and browens history, baltimore has owned cleveland. We will see this season if the browns are 4real or if this is just another fluke season. the ravens always bounce back after a poor season. In the 05-06 season, they went 6-10 and then had their best regular season ever with a 13-3 record in 06-07. The ravens are still one of the best teams in the nfl and will be lead two 10 or 11 victories this season by their defense who will finish 1st once again!
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jun 29, 2008 10:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for having my back...
...Benji. Nice to have another “dreamer” like me who believe that last season was a fluke due to horrible injuries and poor play by an aging QB. We handed the game last year at home to the Browns after that incredible turn of events on the Browns last second FG, which was initially called a miss but was reversed and the Browns went on to win in OT. We should have won that game and should win this one as well. Cleveland has good and loyal fans, but they are sometimes blind to their reality and ultimately their destiny of failure.
Rexx
by Rexx on Jun 30, 2008 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What? What?
I think you two have been hanging with Derrik Martin. I hear he was visiting Cleveland. Hope he enjoys his stay here.
by Cleveland Rich on Jun 30, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You have to admit that this is a pretty “everything possible goes wrong for the Browns, and everything possible goes right for the Ravens” analysis. That’s why it’s comical.
Best offensive line in football does worse after their first year together against a rapidly aging D? Meanwhile the other team loses a Hall of Famer at the most important position on the line, and its unit will improve?
Jamal “averaged 4.4 yards per carry last year” Lewis doesn’t run well.
Cleveland’s secondary will be a strong suit of the D (see here: http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2008/5/30/542489/four-downs-afc-north#6471024 )
Whoever your QB is completes a pass to… who exactly, at receiver?
And finally, it’s in pretty poor taste to say “destiny of failure” about a team with a rich history of success, when all you’ve ever done is beat up on an expansion team that made two wrong hires (Dwight Clark, Butch Davis) before finally getting it right (Savage).
by kwoog on Jun 30, 2008 5:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand...
...that the Browns have one decent season and the Dawg Pound starts pounding their chests thinking they’re back. Yeah, they’ll be competitive as Phil Savage is an excellent GM, even though all we heard was that both he and Romeo were gone if they didn’t succeed last year. Cleveland will not come close to repeating last year’s success, as their road record will do them in. They’ll probably beat my Ravens in Cleveland, but no, not in Baltimore. Sorry.
Rexx
by Rexx on Jul 1, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They had one good year (so far) by a roster whose starters are almost entirely young and before their prime:
QB: 24
WR: 24, 27
TE: 24
OL: 23, 28, 30, 32/26, 28
FB: 24
DL: 27, 29, 26
LB: 24, 24, 29, 28
C: 22, 22
S: 26, 23
They were 7-1 at home last year, so even .500 on the road is fine.
But once again, you provide no arguments for your opinions. You predicted a score for this game and gave comical arguments for how the game would turn out that way. Then I pointed out how those reasons were all comical (your OL vs. Ours, Jamal, our secondary, your pathetic QB/WR situation). And you just come back w/, “oh it’s just Cleveland.” Good Job.
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got to give you credit...
...on the research of your players ages. At the same time, just because the team is so young, doesn’t mean it will continue to be good. In fact, the younger teams have a heck of a lot harder time maintaining the consistency that is necessary for a team to remain competitive and win on a regular basis. I just am not that impressed with their one good 10-6 season and predict it won’t happen again, regardless of any argument. I guess we can argue all we want, but let’s re-connect after game 3, okay?
Rexx
by Rexx on Jul 1, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
Just glad to be back in the discussion again, where we belong.
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brown are Competative, not "Good"
It’s amazing how cocky Browns fans have become after a 10-6 season. It’s even more amazing how much media attention that they have gotten. It reminds me of the 2006 Saints. Except the Browns didn’t make the playoffs and the ‘06 Saints did.
Basically, the Browns may have a few competitive seasons. I’ll give them that, but they are not a “good” team. History shows that “good” teams (Patriots, Chargers, Colts, Ravens) build their roster through the draft. Teams do not go very far signing everyone else’s garbage. This isn’t Madden. It doesn’t work like that. Good teams are built, not bought. Right now, the Ravens are building a SOLID team. They have always been a solid team because of good drafting and long-term plans for success. As far as I can remember, the Ravens DRAFTED a Superbowl team only four years after they were founded.
The Browns are not a “good” team. They may be competitive right now, but it won’t be for long.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 1, 2008 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Browns didn’t buy anything. They signed exactly one FA starter (Stalworth), to be their 3rd receiving option. Both Williams and Rogers are the antithesis or FA, or as you say, “other team’s garbage.” Williams was franchised which meant he was so valuable his team was willing to pay him top 5 money at his position to keep him. Rogers was under contract for 3 more years, and a year removed from the Pro Bowl.
The fact is that Savage wisely conceded to punt the first 3 rounds of this year’s draft to drastically improve the worst unit on the team, the DL. And he could do this precisely b/c of how insanely young the entire roster presently is (see above) and b/c we’ll most likely have two first rounders next year (after dealing one of Anderson or Quinn).
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're Dreaming...
At this point, Browns fans will take any move by the Browns organization as divine inspiration, but I remember before last season. Everyone was thinking that Romeo was going to lose his job because the Browns sucked so bad. What happened? They got lucky, and I mean REALLY lucky. Do you really think that they knew Anderson was any good (in the most liberal sense of the word)? They were as shocked off their rocker like everyone else. They didn’t even know who to start at the beginning of the season.
Not to mention, two of the teams in the Brown’s division were having slumping years, and the only good teams that they had to play were New England and Pittsburgh (all of which the Browns lost). At least the Ravens gave New England a run for their money. Lets see, who did they play? Miami? Houston? Buffalo? San Fran? I can’t wait to see the Browns crack under the pressure of their insane schedule this season.
As far as the Brown’s offseason: they traded away all of their first day (and several second day) picks, enough said. You like research? Try researching how many teams have done that and actually been successful long-term. Like I said before, it just doesn’t work like that.
As far as the Ravens go, you are right. I wouldn’t put them in the same (wins) category as the Patriots or Colts, but I do believe that our front office is as good. I phrased it wrong before. I think that our problem was Brian Billick. I know that he took us to the Superbowl, but I think that he was just riding the talent that Ozzie drafted. We will see what happens with Harbaugh. My impression so far is that he is a winner and a motivator. He reminds me of Cowher when he fist started in Pittsburgh.
Anyway, just enjoy the high. I don’t think that it will be around for long in Cleveland.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 2, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t care about knocking the Ravens or their drafting, I obviously like Ozzie, so I’m not going to waste time talking about where your front office ranks in the league. The record speaks for itself.
But to claim that the Browns aren’t a draft-driven team is ridiculous and, quite honestly, just ignorant. Winslow, Jones, Edwards, Poole, Vickers, Wimbley, Jackson, Thomas, Wright, McDonald are all starters that have been drafted in the last couple years.
So don’t worry, I am enjoying the high, and I will all the way through January. Rest assured I’ll be around to say to remind you of this conversation, when you’re looking at potential top 10 draft picks.
by kwoog on Jul 2, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright...
...I’m done with this. The only reason I’m replying is because you called me ignorant.
I obviously know that the Browns draft players. Not a single team in the NFL could afford to buy every player, and simply stating the players that they’ve drafted in an attempt to make me look stupid makes you look ignorant. Most teams add a FA here or there. My actual point, which you dodged, was actually this:
“As far as the Brown’s offseason: they traded away all of their first day (and several second day) picks, enough said. You like research? Try researching how many teams have done that and actually been successful long-term.”
Trading away draft multiple draft picks for a couple of players is a “win-now” mentality. Ozzie believes that he can draft the talent and save the free-agent money so that the Ravens can be competitive long-term (ie, To save money, the Ravens let Adalius Thomas walk only to draft the younger, faster, more talented Antwan Barnes with the compensatory pick from Thomas). My other point was that the Ravens sharply contrast the Browns in this aspect. The Ravens believe that they can fill all holes through the draft, and Ozzie would NEVER trade away an entire draft’s first day of picks. I’ve watched the NFL long enough to see teams come and go. The Browns are nothing new.
I do look forward to talking to you in November..
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 3, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A slight exaggeration...
...on the Antwan Barnes comments. As a true Ravens fan (and wriiter of this blog) I can only agree with the obvious, that Barnes is younger than Adalius Thomas. But to say faster and more talented might be a stretch. Losing Thomas was tough for me to stomach, although the money was just too much for us to retain him. However, see how important team chemistry is for individual success, as Thomas still has not fit into the Pats scheme and even spent time on their bench. All your other points are dead on, as while the Ravens may not have a better record than the Browns this year, they both will be watching TV in January. Either way, I’ll take our defense over their offense any day.
Rexx
by Rexx on Jul 3, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not yet
I do not think that Barnes is better than AD right now. I was aluding to the overall ceiling of the player. It took AD several seasons to push his way into the starting lineup. Barnes is already doing that. I think Barnes has more natural talent and I actually do think that he’s faster. He runs a low 4.4 forty, and AD ran a low 4.5.
Anyway, I’m sorry that I was not clear.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 3, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Ravens, in acquiring Boller, did the exact same thing as the Browns when they traded for Quinn (give up their 2nd rounder and next year’s #1). They traded a draft pick for McNair. They bought UFA’s Rolle and Mason. To claim that the Ravens “sharply contrast” with the Browns in how they acquire players is flat out incorrect.
As Savage admitted, this year was a bit unique, b/c ultimately he gave up his 2nd and 3rd rounder to acquire two D lineman in their twenties, guys that are far more skilled than any DL that would have been available at those picks. To repeat myself, he could do this b/c he’s built a young team through the draft and will most likely have two 1st rounders next year.
by kwoog on Jul 3, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I didn’t call you ignorant, I called the claim ignorant. Peace.
by kwoog on Jul 3, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, since the Ravens won the Super Bowl (which should probably mean they are established), they have a regular season record of 54-52… with seasons of 7-9, 6-10, and 5-11 mixed in. That’s not in the universe of the Patriots, Chargers and Colts.
And to think that someone would call Browns fans cocky.
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We may have had a regular season record of 54-52, but we also have 2 division titiles. how many do the browns have?
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 3, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, one more thing...
Just remember who drafted the Brown’s “great” QB and RB.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 1, 2008 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies, Savage was w/ us when Anderson was drafted.
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they can keep both of them...
.... as Jamal will stutter step and break down as usual, and everyone in Cleveland and throughout the NFL know that they’re just waiting for Anderson to fail so they can insert their franchise’s future QB, Brady Quinn.
Rexx
by Rexx on Jul 1, 2008 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do research on the history of QBs under 25 who throw for 29 tds in a season and try and find many that aren’t successful for the rest of their careers.
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cleveland are not nice
Kwoog, when are you going to get it. The browns are not a good team and will not be a good team for a lng time. The ravens are much better then the browns. Yes we have a aging defense and yes our best player on offense did retire but dats ok. The ravens are 1 of the top 3 teams when it comes to drafting. Newsome is the best GM in the game today. He has the best eye for talent in late round picks and undrafted rookie free agents. how do you think yall got derek anderson? Now, Derek anderson is a ok QB. Yes, he threw 29 TDs. He also threw 19 picks and one of them cost them a playoff birth. About the ravens aging defense. We still have the best safty in the game in Ed Redd(not sanders). We also have the best front 7 in the nfl today. Baltimore is better suit at every postion on defense then cleveland. The browns brung in DT shaun rodgers to play in a 3-4 system he never played in. Just cuz you have the size doesnt mean you can ply the postion. They also traded away their best CB in Bodden. they already bad against the pass and they just got worst.
When it comes down to it, the ravens are a all around better team than the browns.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 1, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, needless to say, I disagree with just about every sentence in this post, which is easy to do since they’re all opinions and none are facts or even supported by facts.
So instead, man, that’s a crazy spread of favorite teams you got there. You’re pretty much covering the entire lower 48 and then some (Niagara to Miami to Denver to LA!). How in the heck did that happen?
by kwoog on Jul 1, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaun Rogers...
...would warm the bench in Baltimore.
by BAL_Hawk on Jul 2, 2008 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There isn’t a player on your offense that would start for the Browns. Maybe Willis, but he’d probably split time w/ Jamal “5th most yards in the NFL while missing two games” Lewis.
by kwoog on Jul 2, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, you wouldnt start derrick mason over stallworth or juravicous? What about jason brown over who ever yall center is?. Cleveland has a very gud offense, but lets see them do that again this year. And for the record, our defense is much better then yalls!
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 2, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To answer both your questions, no, i’ll take stalworth and definitely take Fraley.
Wright, Jones, Wimbly and one of Williams or Rogers, perhaps both, would definitely all start for the Ravens.
by kwoog on Jul 2, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha, in all honesty, I guess I’d take Mason. But you’re comparing your #1 w/ our #2. But I gotta be honest, so there.
by kwoog on Jul 2, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks 4 being honest
i would not compare brylon edwards to mason cuz he is in da top 5 when it cums dwn 2 it. Shaun rodgers would not start for the ravens. kelly greg is the most under rated DT in da game 2day. If you compare stats, kelly greg played just as well if not better than rodgers. wimbly could not start 4 us cuz t-sizzle is still da man, he had a down year but is a better player. i have to agree that wright could start for us over rolle put jones over landury? Landury should have been in the pro bowl 2 years ago and injuries hurt us bad. williams could not start for us etither cun Haloti Ngata is a animal. just like rodgers, it takes 2 guys to block him also and plus he is very athletic. So, i agree with u at sum points but u couldnt replace our d starts with sum of yalls. On offense, yall got us. (Edwards is in the top 5 by the way).
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 2, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
" Not to mention that Jones is the same caliber safety as anyone else in the division."
WHAT?!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you heard the name ED REED?!!! How can u even think about jones playing as well? Nobody on gods green earth is in the same division as Reed besides Bob Sanders and Troy palamalu(spelled it wrong).
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 2, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Reed’s game is different than Jones’ because he’s a free safety, whereas Jones and Polamalu are Strong safeties. They are high number tacklers, integral in the run D and more physical than Reed. That being said, Jones has been a better safety the last two years than Polamalu, injuries playing a part. But even if you take Polamalu’s best two years (04 and 05), Jones’ last two compare very similarly:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=5584
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=4474
You are probably like a lot of people and haven’t heard much about Jones, but he’s a Pro Bowl caliber player, and w/ our new DL help, he may finally get the recognition this year.
by kwoog on Jul 2, 2008 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never said he wasent a pro bowl caliber safety, he just isnt on the same level as ed reed or sanders.
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 2, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Well niagara falls is the city im from, miami is where i plan to go to college, denver bcuz A.I. is my favorite player, and
L.A. cuz of vlad
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 1, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also, you know every thing i said was the truth. tell me were im wrong and we can debate
FEAR THE NEVERMORE DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Benji5203 on Jul 1, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
all right, i’m bored, my comments in bold…
Kwoog, when are you going to get it. The browns are not a good team (10-6 is a good team) and will not be a good team for a lng time (see the youth I referenced above, this team is going to get much better, not worse). The ravens are much better then the browns. Yes we have a aging defense and yes our best player on offense did retire but dats ok. The ravens are 1 of the top 3 teams when it comes to drafting. Newsome is the best GM in the game today. He has the best eye for talent in late round picks and undrafted rookie free agents (Josh Cribbs, best returner in the game, was an UFA, Vickers is a PB caliber fullback and was taken in round 6 or 7, McDonald is a starting corner that had a Yards per pass attempt of about 5 last year, which is phenomenal, and was taken in the 5th round). how do you think yall got derek anderson? (by having an astute GM who knows how to acquire talent) Now, Derek anderson is a ok QB. Yes, he threw 29 TDs. He also threw 19 picks and one of them cost them a playoff birth. About the ravens aging defense. We still have the best safty in the game in Ed Redd(not sanders) (Good player, takes a ton of chances, but plays in a poor secondary with crappy corners). We also have the best front 7 in the nfl today (debatable, but whatever). Baltimore is better suit at every postion on defense then cleveland (no, as i linked to a comment above, barring injury the browns secondary will be very strong, and it’s young and “dripping with talent”, as the scouts, inc. guy said. all four might play in a pro bowl someday). The browns brung in DT shaun rodgers to play in a 3-4 system he never played in. Just cuz you have the size doesnt mean you can ply the postion. (rogers is a freak. amazingly big and strong, and very athletic, leads the league in blocked kicks since he entered the league, can 360 dunk a basketball. Jamal Williams in san diego did the same transition to 3-4 nose tackle, and that was an easy transition. bottom line: it takes two men to block shaun rogers, and no offensive lineman likes seeing him across the way). They also traded away their best CB in Bodden (he was not our best corner last year, Wright was, who some are calling a future superstar. again, both Browns starting corners had yards-per-attempt under 7 last year, which is phenomenal. we could use a bit more depth, but we don’t need another starter. bodden was traded b/c we have two starter-caliber corners). they already bad against the pass and they just got worst (incorrect, for reasons already stated, not to mention that Jones is the same caliber safety as anyone else in the division. our problem was we were bad against the run, and we got, at least on paper, tremendously better at that).
When it comes down to it, the ravens are a all around better team than the browns. (guess we’ll see)
by kwoog on Jul 2, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to fight the good fight, kwoog.
Go Browns!
by JulioBernazard on Jul 10, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great comments, guys!
Keep it up. Let’s all agree to meet back here before week 3 to talk trash and afterwards to rub it in! Thanks again for all the posts.
-Rexx
Rexx
by Rexx on Jul 3, 2008 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
26 Points?
How on earth do you imagine that the Ravens would be able to score 26 points? You have absolutely zero offense. I don’t know of a single offensive weapon capable of making my sister’s fantasy football team on the Ravens roster.
Delusions of grandeur are what cost you last season and it will get you again. Welcome to the basement Baltimore! Healthy defense?? As people get older, health problems tend to get worse. Ray-Ray can only use the 8-ball to keep him hyper for so long. The hip can only take so much. Do hear that? Everyone is laughing at you because you need a quarterback and you’re the only ones that don’t know it. Personally, I love it.
by RaleighDawg on Jul 10, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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